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Old
08-29-2011, 09:47 PM
  #51
Halpysback
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Semin is a locker-room cancer. Locker-room cancers do not find their way onto the Wings. Further, playing under Babcock isn't going to change Semin's mind. He's going to get paid regardless. If you want an example of a similar player, look to Zherdev. He played under Hitchcock, Tortorella and Laviolette, three of the most demanding coaches around, and he didn't improve a whit.

You get an A+ in the category of talking out your ass.
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Congratulations on the dumbest post of the thread.
Thanks for doing all the work for me.

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08-29-2011, 09:49 PM
  #52
Crymson
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Thanks for doing all the work for me.
And the brilliance continues. Not only does your post make no sense, but you evade every other rebuttal I made to your nonsense.

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08-29-2011, 09:51 PM
  #53
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And the brilliance continues. Not only does your post make no sense, but you evade every other rebuttal I made to your nonsense.
What rebuttal? All you proved is that you only watched the DRW. Comparing Semin to Zherdev is as asinine as comparing Datsyuk to Yashin, if you knew what the **** you were talking about I wouldn't need to spoonfeed it to you.

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08-29-2011, 09:59 PM
  #54
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Oh, just a fun fact - difference between playoff PPG with Johan "playoff beast extraordinaire" Franzen (playing on a team of like-minded playoff beast extraordinaires from Zetterberg and Datsyuk to Lidstrom and Kronwall) and Alexander "cancerous Zherdev" Semin...

...
...
...

.05 PPG

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Old
08-30-2011, 08:24 AM
  #55
LetsGoBears
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Congratulations on the dumbest post of the thread. I take it you do not watch the Red Wings play much.
Nope that would be this one:
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
haha, that's funny.

A streaky scorer with dismal playoff production on a one year deal AND who has serious attitude problems for Pavelski signed cheap for 3 more years?

Ya, I'll pass, I'll pass big time. Thanks.
Since when is 30 points in 37 games dismal? He has a higher PPG then Thornton and Marleau. I will give you they do have more playoff games played, but 37 games isn't exactly a small pool to pull from.

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Old
08-30-2011, 09:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
What rebuttal? All you proved is that you only watched the DRW. Comparing Semin to Zherdev is as asinine as comparing Datsyuk to Yashin, if you knew what the **** you were talking about I wouldn't need to spoonfeed it to you.
LOL. Look at my post and note the 2/3 of it that you DIDN'T respond to. As far as my "comparison" of Zherdev to Semin, learn to read. It was a note on how coaches cannot work miracles with players who are unwilling to work hard.

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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Oh, just a fun fact - difference between playoff PPG with Johan "playoff beast extraordinaire" Franzen (playing on a team of like-minded playoff beast extraordinaires from Zetterberg and Datsyuk to Lidstrom and Kronwall) and Alexander "cancerous Zherdev" Semin...

.05 PPG
Yeah, and let's totally forget that Franzen was a grinder until the 2007-2008 season (something I wouldn't expect you to know, because you clearly know jack **** about the Red Wings); his production since then equals 1.05 ppg, whereas Semin's production since then (which also encompasses all of his playoff experience) rounds out to .81 ppg. What's more, Franzen's has averaged .55 gpg during that period, whereas Semin has put up .32 gpg.

And then there's the fact that Semin is lazy and a locker-room cancer while Franzen is not.


Last edited by Crymson: 08-30-2011 at 09:44 AM.
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Old
08-30-2011, 09:31 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
So the Wings give up one of the league's best power forwards in exchange for a lazy locker-room cancer who is on the last year of his contract. No thanks.



Congratulations on the dumbest post of the thread. I take it you do not watch the Red Wings play much.



LOL, OK. So now Hudler and Bertuzzi are "the average DRW player." I think your math needs work. Whatever the case, Bertuzzi is not lazy. He works pretty hard. He has almost always worked hard, even when he wasn't with Detroit; apparently you've forgotten that he was once the premiere power forward in the league. Now he's got further incentive because he's near the end of his career, is with a contender, and wants to win a Cup before hanging up his skates.

Datsyuk has always worked hard.

Semin is a locker-room cancer. Locker-room cancers do not find their way onto the Wings. Further, playing under Babcock isn't going to change Semin's mind. He's going to get paid regardless. If you want an example of a similar player, look to Zherdev. He played under Hitchcock, Tortorella and Laviolette, three of the most demanding coaches around, and he didn't improve a whit.

You get an A+ in the category of talking out your ass.
Well you do know that:

Datsyuk in his first 37 playoff games had 3 goals and 9 assists = 12 pts
Semin conversely in his first 37 playoff games has 12 goals and 18 assists = 30pts

Now stats aren't everything but I remember people saying that Datsyuk was a "choker", "soft", "was scared of contact" or whatever.

It just took him a while to figure things out thats all.

As far as the whole "locker room" cancer thing I can't really comment since I'm not in the locker room of the Caps but McPhee, after the Jagr fiasco, has no patience for guys who would be disruptive like that I'm sure.

You see Semin is an introverted guy from all accounts. He doesn't express himself so people, especially the media, assume he's aloof and uncaring. When you avoid the media they don't take it too well and will slant things against you when they can.

Semin may not be the most charasmatic person in the world but for the most part he tries hard and again was arguably the best player on the Caps for 3 playoff series in the past 4 years (Philly, NY, and Montreal)


And I couldn't disagree more about Babcock and fitting Semin in. Take the Patriots in the NFL..an established team with a strong experienced core can make "trouble makers" (not that Semin is one) fall into line. Randy Moss, Corey Dillon etc. I consider the Redwings an established team with a strong experienced core and they can take pretty much any "cancer" and make that player fall into line.

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Old
08-30-2011, 09:50 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Well you do know that:

Datsyuk in his first 37 playoff games had 3 goals and 9 assists = 12 pts

Semin conversely in his first 37 playoff games has 12 goals and 18 assists = 30pts
Yes, I do know that. Bear in mind, however, that his first 22 were in 2002, when he was playing as a rookie. In 2003, nobody was able to score on Giguere; and the Wings had similar problems with the Flames in 2004. In 2006, Datsyuk played the series injured.

Whatever the case, no Red Wings fan you will talk to will say that this was the result of Datsyuk being lazy and not working hard. He just wasn't producing well, though for three out of the four years he didn't produce much in the playoffs, this was something that was not really unique to him on the team.

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As far as the whole "locker room" cancer thing I can't really comment since I'm not in the locker room of the Caps but McPhee, after the Jagr fiasco, has no patience for guys who would be disruptive like that I'm sure.
Semin is already under contract.

Quote:
You see Semin is an introverted guy from all accounts. He doesn't express himself so people, especially the media, assume he's aloof and uncaring. When you avoid the media they don't take it too well and will slant things against you when they can.
The degree of effort he puts forward on the ice is important in how he gets along with the rest of the team. And no, I don't think the media focuses on his introversion (assuming that's indeed how he is) and draws conclusions.

In any event, it speaks volumes that ex-teammates are willing to openly focus on his lack of work ethic.

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Semin may not be the most charasmatic person in the world but for the most part he tries hard and again was arguably the best player on the Caps for 3 playoff series in the past 4 years (Philly, NY, and Montreal)
You're the first person I've heard say that.

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And I couldn't disagree more about Babcock and fitting Semin in. Take the Patriots in the NFL..an established team with a strong experienced core can make "trouble makers" (not that Semin is one) fall into line. Randy Moss, Corey Dillon etc.
Theoretically any team can do so. Does every team WANT to do so? Nope. The Wings do not bring in lazy or troublesome players. It's just one of the factors that makes them so successful.

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I consider the Redwings an established team with a strong experienced core and they can take pretty much any "cancer" and make that player fall into line.
Ah, yes, like Robert Lang, Sean Avery and Jason Williams, eh?

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Old
08-30-2011, 10:01 AM
  #59
Halpysback
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
LOL. Look at my post and note the 2/3 of it that you DIDN'T respond to. As far as my "comparison" of Zherdev to Semin, learn to read. It was a note on how coaches cannot work miracles with players who are unwilling to work hard.
Yes, because that has clearly been an issue with Semin. He's been burning through teams and coaches . You're not talking out of your ass or anything.

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Yeah, and let's totally forget that Franzen was a grinder until the 2007-2008 season (something I wouldn't expect you to know, because you clearly know jack **** about the Red Wings); his production since then equals 1.05 ppg, whereas Semin's production since then (which also encompasses all of his playoff experience) rounds out to .81 ppg. What's more, Franzen's has averaged .55 gpg during that period, whereas Semin has put up .32 gpg.
And if I cherry pick Semin's stats while adding in a bunch of ******** qualifiers I can make it look like has over a PPG as well. What's your point? You've never watched any team other than the Red Wings? Yeah, that's kinda obvious.

Also, you should consider that Franzen's linemates and the defense supporting him are a slight bit better than Semin's (be it Franzen and Holmstrom or Filpulla and Bertuzzi). But you probably don't realize that since you've never watched any team other than the Red Wings.

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And then there's the fact that Semin is lazy and a locker-room cancer while Franzen is not.
You should keep repeating it more, maybe it will come true like you desperately want it to

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08-30-2011, 10:10 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Yes, I do know that. Bear in mind, however, that his first 22 were in 2002, when he was playing as a rookie. In 2003, nobody was able to score on Giguere; and the Wings had similar problems with the Flames in 2004. In 2006, Datsyuk played the series injured.
So Semin has played two series against Lunquivst and one against Halak which was a brick wall two years ago in the playoffs. Oh, wait! It's the playoffs any team there has earned right to be there and most play accordingly!

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08-30-2011, 10:12 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
I'm bored and there are 3 weeks left to hockey season.


Alexander Semin
COL 2nd 2013 or BOS 2nd 2012


Johan Franzen
Matthieu Perreault
DET 2nd 2012


Joe Pavelski
Detroit gives up Johan Franzen and a late 2nd for Semin, what will be practically a late 1st and a late 2nd? Detroit should hope to be so lucky.

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Old
08-30-2011, 10:17 AM
  #62
Halpysback
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Originally Posted by LetsGoBears View Post
So Semin has played two series against Lunquivst and one against Halak which was a brick wall two years ago in the playoffs. Oh, wait! It's the playoffs any team there has earned right to be there and most play accordingly!
No no you don't understand... playing against hot goalies is only a challenge if you're on the Red Wings. Just like being injured is only a challenge if you're on the Red Wings. Semin's broken thumb against the Penguins didn't hamper him or anything, he was just lazy as ****

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08-30-2011, 10:20 AM
  #63
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It seems I'm going to need to resort to repeatomania in order to compel you to respond to my material. I'll help you: it's on the last post of the previous page.

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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yes, because that has clearly been an issue with Semin. He's been burning through teams and coaches . You're not talking out of your ass or anything.
lol. Dumbness.

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LOL. Look at my post and note the 2/3 of it that you DIDN'T respond to.
^^^You've yet again failed to address it.

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And if I cherry pick Semin's stats while adding in a bunch of ******** qualifiers I can make it look like has over a PPG as well. What's your point?
You're awful at this.

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You've never watched any team other than the Red Wings? Yeah, that's kinda obvious.
I'm sorry, but who's the one of us who said a bunch of dumb things about a team he obviously doesn't know much about?

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Also, you should consider that Franzen's linemates and the defense supporting him are a slight bit better than Semin's (be it Franzen and Holmstrom or Filpulla and Bertuzzi). But you probably don't realize that since you've never watched any team other than the Red Wings.
You keep making this hilarious claim. It's drenched with irony when one considers that in order for your own claims about Franzen to be valid, you'd need to have a lot of experience watching the Red Wings---and you obviously don't.

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You should keep repeating it more, maybe it will come true like you desperately want it to
La la la la la. Come find me when Semin is widely referred to as a playoff beast. In the meantime, do some research on why Franzen is and Semin is not.

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08-30-2011, 10:28 AM
  #64
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Did anyone notice that this thread was named Puck Daddy's dumbest trade proposal of the week? Presumably it's for how badly Detroit and San Jose would get fleeced.

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08-30-2011, 10:39 AM
  #65
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If you like Chimera, what about...


Joe Pavelski


Alexander Semin
COL 2nd 2013 if Semin doesn't sign


Valtteri Filppula
Jason Chimera
DET 2nd 2012

Filppula has also had playoff success, and plays C.
Any response to this?

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08-30-2011, 10:45 AM
  #66
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5 or so years of Franzen for one year of Semin and early 2nd? No thanks.

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08-30-2011, 10:50 AM
  #67
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5 or so years of Franzen for one year of Semin and early 2nd? No thanks.
The other proposal, in the post directly above yours...

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08-30-2011, 10:50 AM
  #68
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What claims? That Bertuzzi works hard while Semin doesn't? That Datsyuk "always works hard" while Semin is a "locker room cancer" who is just like Zherdev? What exactly am I supposed to dignify with a response here? You might as well post that the earth is flat and then bait me for not taking your claim seriously.

Oh,and could you again please post a list of coaches and teams Semin burnt through? If he's like Zherdev it should be pretty easy.

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You're awful at this.
Giguere was hot! Kipper was hot! Datsyuk's leg hurt! Franzen was a grinder! Waah!

Who's awful at what again?

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You keep making this hilarious claim. It's drenched with irony when one considers that in order for your own claims about Franzen to be valid, you'd need to have a lot of experience watching the Red Wings---and you obviously don't.
So you think Laich and Fleischmann/Morrison/Johansson/39 year old Fedorov/36 year old Arnott make better playoff linemates than Datsyuk, Filpulla, Bertuzzi and Holmstrom?

I think it's pretty obvious exactly who watches who.

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I'm sorry, but who's the one of us who said a bunch of dumb things about a team he obviously doesn't know much about?
I believe that was you, and there's like 3 other posters here [politely] pointing that out in addition to me.

Keep making excuses for anything RW though.

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La la la la la. Come find me when Semin is widely referred to as a playoff beast. In the meantime, do some research on why Franzen is and Semin is not.
Apparently it's not his offensive production, since him and Semin are pretty close in that regard. Hmm. Oh, I know! Maybe it's because Franzen's epic runs where he axe murders an Avalanche team on his last legs are counted, but when he's not at the top of his game like against Phoenix or SJ, it's not counted against him since he's clearly dying inside?

And since you love selective stats so much, I can throw out that Semin was playing with a broken thumb against the Penguins and one of the hottest PO goalies since the lockout in Halak, a series in which he put up 44 shots (because we all know that lazy players put up 6+ shots per game). So if I were to conveniently "erase" those series (and there's plenty of justification, I mean, injury and hot goalie, what can you do), we get 12g, 22p in 23 playoff games. What a beast

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Old
08-30-2011, 10:51 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Any response to this?
San Jose gets mega ripped off, Detroit wins even more.

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08-30-2011, 10:55 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
The other proposal, in the post directly above yours...
Filppula and 2nd for Semin? Detroit takes it and runs. SJ takes the deal in place that's very uncomfortable (and no not the backseat of a Volkswagen)

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08-30-2011, 10:56 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
San Jose gets mega ripped off, Detroit wins even more.
Eh, San Jose gives up a second line center to get back a second line center, Chimera (who they asked for over Perreault), and a 2nd. I don't see that as getting mega ripped off. I guess you're down on Filppula?

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08-30-2011, 11:06 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Yes, I do know that. Bear in mind, however, that his first 22 were in 2002, when he was playing as a rookie. In 2003, nobody was able to score on Giguere; and the Wings had similar problems with the Flames in 2004. In 2006, Datsyuk played the series injured.
In 2009 and 2011, Semin faced Lundqvist is the first round. In the second round of 2009, Brooks Orpik broke his hand in game 1 of the series. In 2010, Semin faced Halak in god-mode and took 44 shots in the series (Halak saved them all).

Semin has all the same excuses Datsyuk does, and has done substantially better in the playoffs than Datsyuk at the same age. I don't see your point.

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08-30-2011, 11:07 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Yes, I do know that. Bear in mind, however, that his first 22 were in 2002, when he was playing as a rookie. In 2003, nobody was able to score on Giguere; and the Wings had similar problems with the Flames in 2004. In 2006, Datsyuk played the series injured.

Whatever the case, no Red Wings fan you will talk to will say that this was the result of Datsyuk being lazy and not working hard. He just wasn't producing well, though for three out of the four years he didn't produce much in the playoffs, this was something that was not really unique to him on the team.
Well there are certainly other factors involved but you could say the same about Semin who played against top goalies and in the Pitt series played with a broken thumb and still managed 6 assists tho he couldn't shoot anymore. The point disparity is pretty sizeable no matter what. Datsyuk's real low point was (I think) that series vs the Oilers...Zetterberg was great but Datsyuk really seemed like a no show after a great reg season.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Semin is already under contract.
Doesn't mean you can't get rid of a player if you think he is a "problem" in the locker room.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
The degree of effort he puts forward on the ice is important in how he gets along with the rest of the team. And no, I don't think the media focuses on his introversion (assuming that's indeed how he is) and draws conclusions.

In any event, it speaks volumes that ex-teammates are willing to openly focus on his lack of work ethic.
Bradley is the only one who said anything and immediately afterwards regretted it. Everybody in DC knows Semin is introverted and really just chills with Ovechkin and doesn't like to speak with media.




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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
You're the first person I've heard say that.
Well you have to see what Caps fans think but there is no question he was our best player vs NY the first time around. Against Philly it was between him and Backstrom. Both were great. Montreal is another animal..I think Habs fans could tell you that his point totals were deceiving as Halak really did stand on his head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Theoretically any team can do so. Does every team WANT to do so? Nope. The Wings do not bring in lazy or troublesome players. It's just one of the factors that makes them so successful.



Ah, yes, like Robert Lang, Sean Avery and Jason Williams, eh?
Well they did have those players on the team at one point did they not? They paid a pretty steep price for Lang too.

Wasn't Shanahan traded from St Louis due to a scandal involving Janney's wife? Wasn't he disgruntled in Hartford? I do believe so.

Bertuzzi certainly had a lot of baggage no question and one could see how his presence in the locker room could cause a disturbance right? I mean I think I would think twice about it.

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Old
08-30-2011, 11:42 AM
  #74
Halpysback
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Eh, San Jose gives up a second line center to get back a second line center, Chimera (who they asked for over Perreault), and a 2nd. I don't see that as getting mega ripped off. I guess you're down on Filppula?
Kesler is a 2nd line center. Brendan Morrison is a 2nd line center.

I could be personally overvaluing Pavelski, but I see him as far more valuable than Filpulla. And Chimera is not a dealbreaker anywhere. They could sign Grier for similar impact.

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08-30-2011, 11:48 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Kesler is a 2nd line center. Brendan Morrison is a 2nd line center.

I could be personally overvaluing Pavelski, but I see him as far more valuable than Filpulla. And Chimera is not a dealbreaker anywhere. They could sign Grier for similar impact.
IMO you're not. He is an excellent all around player in my book and I would probably make that trade. Actually I almost certainly would.

Strong 2 way 2nd line center who is on a good contract..well they don't grow on trees.

But Sharks fans would know more since it really is hard for us to catch all that many Sharks games on the EC. From what I've seen I have not been dissappointed tho.

It would leave the Caps with a good deal of cap space would it not?

This I would see more feasible:



Joe Pavelski


Alexander Semin


Valtteri Filppula
Jason Chimera
COL 2nd 2013 (dont the caps have a choice between 2012 and 2013?)

Still weak for the Sharks a bit tho...I wouldn't do that if I was them.

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