My point is, the reason many choose their heritage over their actual country is because the team of their heritage is better. This is the case with Italy and USA or Germany and Australia, in your case. My point is, it's not really all about being proud of their heritage (which I don't doubt they/you are) but also about cheering for a great team. Would you follow San Marino or Cyprus over Australia the same way you follow Germany?
So apparently you know me better then me now? . The fact your saying I'm only supporting Germany because the heritage / history etc is better is quite a bit insulting, Ignorant, very ignorant.
If I had the same story but was San Marino heritage I would still support them, as I said, I regard myself more European then Australian, the only tie I have to Australia is that I was born here, not one person in my family is Australian.
Wow is all I'm going to say when people say stuff like this
I see your very patriotic and sure I respect that, but to have a go at people because they choose the country of their heritage over the place of their birth is a bit insulting, many people have stronger ties to the country of their heritage then the country of their birth which I see nothing wrong with.
Last edited by mightyquack: 08-31-2011 at 08:58 AM.
I'm sorry if you took that too personally but I never said that the sole reason that you support Germany is because they are better. I admitted that you are certainly proud of your heritage, as am I, but the fact is, that is not YOUR country.
If you lived in my town, or North Jersey in general, you would encounter tons of the people that I am talking about. They walk around with their Italia sweatshirts and are all "Forza Italia!" and vehemently root against the USMNT. Those are the people that I can't stand and Rossi is the professional player example of these "guidos".
I am in no way saying that you are as stupid and moronic as these guys. I was just speaking in general.
Also, I am in no way overly patriotic. When it comes to sports I root for my country as hard as I root for my club, but in terms of "real" life, I am not all that patriotic. There are plenty of things that make me love this country, but I am in no way in support of the "my country can do no wrong" idea.
I'm sorry if you took that too personally but I never said that the sole reason that you support Germany is because they are better. I admitted that you are certainly proud of your heritage, as am I, but the fact is, that is not YOUR country.
If you lived in my town, or North Jersey in general, you would encounter tons of the people that I am talking about. They walk around with their Italia sweatshirts and are all "Forza Italia!" and vehemently root against the USMNT. Those are the people that I can't stand and Rossi is the professional player example of these "guidos".
I am in no way saying that you are as stupid and moronic as these guys. I was just speaking in general.
Also, I am in no way overly patriotic. When it comes to sports I root for my country as hard as I root for my club, but in terms of "real" life, I am not all that patriotic. There are plenty of things that make me love this country, but I am in no way in support of the "my country can do no wrong" idea.
Well technically it is as I'm eligible for citizenship + passport, but I decided to get UK passport instead thanks to Mum's side of the family as it's easier to maintain in this stage of my life compared to a German one considering they have much stricter regulations for their passports.
Supporting your parents country over YOUR country seems a little silly. I have no problem with those who support both, as I do the same but to only cheer for a country that's not even yours is dumb. Would he, or you for that matter, cheer for San Marino if that was the team of his/your heritage? Doubtful.
It's really not silly at all.
I was born in N.Y. but the truth of the matter is that I don't feel a connection with the USMNT nor its players. I definitely do with Greece however having grown up in a fully Greek household and having been fluent in Greek before I knew a single word of English.
And if I were from San Marino you can be sure as hell that I'd support them as I do Greece. It's not as though I'm supporting a powerhouse anyway....
The U.S. will be miles ahead of Greece in about a decade or so but I'm not changing who I support under any circumstance.
And to be fair, my support of Greece means I'm supporting a country that (soccer aside at the moment) is far inferior to the U.S. in pretty much every sport known to man.
And to reference your other post, being Greek I know a lot of Cypriots living in N.Y. who support the Cypriot NT and nothing else.
It has nothing to do with how successful a nation is.
You are generalizing a bit much when it comes to Italians and Germans living abroad. lol...
I would argue that it's worse to say you support two nations.
That's like saying I'll support whoever goes deeper into this tournament.
Poland and USA are never in the same tournament because Poland is not going to qualify for a WC for a little while. Anyways my support is USA first and poland a distant second. I grew up in a family like yours. All of my aunts, uncles, grandparents either live in Poland or immigrated here in their twenties. My parents moved to this country from Poland. Many of the people in my family can't even put together a coherent sentence in English. I still don't see how you dont have a connection with the USMNT. This is your country not Greece. That is your parents country.
Poland and USA are never in the same tournament because Poland is not going to qualify for a WC for a little while. Anyways my support is USA first and poland a distant second. I grew up in a family like yours. All of my aunts, uncles, grandparents either live in Poland or immigrated here in their twenties. My parents moved to this country from Poland. Many of the people in my family can't even put together a coherent sentence in English. I still don't see how you dont have a connection with the USMNT. This is your country not Greece. That is your parents country.
Well the important thing here is that I decide what "my" country is.
I can't find myself relating to guys like Donovan and Onyewu.
I can with Katsouranis and Salpingidis however.
And considering I'm rooting for a country that isn't a powerhouse in every single sport, as is the U.S. then your argument doesn't really apply to me.
Additionally, MightyQuack could easily turn that argument onto you with your decision to support the U.S. over Poland.
Who's to say that if you had been German instead of Polish, that you yourself wouldn't be supporting Germany?
Not saying that would definitely be the case but you see where I'm going...
It's always different for everybody.
Yes, I have met many Italians living in N.Y. who've never been to Italy and who can't speak a single word of Italian who were parading up and down the streets when Italy won the W.C....
Those are exceptions however.
The vast majority of people who support a nation other than the one they're living in aren't doing it to support a superior team.
My entire country doesn't have a left winger for example...
Not everybody has Italy/Germany/France in their blood.
I was born and raised in this country. This is the country that provides me with security and what I need to survive. Poland is the country that did that for my parents. If they were from Germany it would be no different. I understand you supporting Greece but not even paying attention to the USMNT is silly. No matter how much you try to change it you are an American.
I was born and raised in this country. This is the country that provides me with security and what I need to survive. Poland is the country that did that for my parents. If they were from Germany it would be no different. I understand you supporting Greece but not even paying attention to the USMNT is silly. No matter how much you try to change it you are an American.
I'm not trying to change anything.
I think most other USNMT fans on this board would prefer me supporting one country as opposed to rooting for the U.S. only when Greece gets eliminated or when Greece is doing particularly poorly like a bandwagoner.
I know that's how I would fell if somebody else who claimed he supported Greece & the U.S., started waving Greek flags as soon as the U.S. was eliminated from competition x.
That's not what I'm doing at all. Poland has it's own competitions (Euro Cups, WC qualifiers, friendlies) that I support them for. USA has it's own stuff. If the two are ever in the same WC in the near future (doubtful), I would root for USA, obviously. The two recently had a friendly and I cheered for US. Next year, when Poland struggles to win a game in the group stage of the Euros, but I cheer for them, does that make me any less of a supporter for the US? No way.
All I'm saying is that you are an American first and foremost no matter how you wish to slice it. You are not from Greece (from what I gather). Your parents and other family members are. You are born and raised in this countyr. That is all.
This is what I want for Brazil but it probably won't happen this way. Robinho as much as I dislike him will probably be a starter on the team although you can't have him in the starting XI with a guy like Neymar. They are too similar.
Julio Cesar
Maicon - Thiago Silva - David Luiz - Marcelo
Sandro - Ramires
Hulk - Ganso/Kaka - Neymar
Pato
Bench:
Gomes, Doni, Helton
Lucio, Alex
Rafael, Fabio, Dani Alves, Andre Santos
Robinho, Kaka/Ganso, Hernanes, Ronaldinho, Michel Bastos, Phillipe Coutinho, Lucas, Elano
Luis Fabiano, Renato Augusto
I support Canada first and Portugal after. So in the end, I'm a Portuguese supporter since Canada always disappears.
I like pull for Canada in competitions that don't feature the US or Poland (rarely, if ever happens). I have taken a liking to De Rosario and de Guzman as well as a few other guys who play overseas like Atiba Hutchinson. I hope they do well in WC qualifiers.
I like pull for Canada in competitions that don't feature the US or Poland (rarely, if ever happens). I have taken a liking to De Rosario and de Guzman as well as a few other guys who play overseas like Atiba Hutchinson. I hope they do well in WC qualifiers.
Like I said, it would be sick if Hoilett and JDG2 would play for Canada. Jonathan is now at Villareal, isn't he? The worse is Spanish medias call him "Canadiense"... Simeon Jackson has some potential too.
Manager will probably be Redknapp. I wouldn't mind Roberto Martinez, plays good football with Wigan and should be at a bigger club by then. Hopefully it won't be Stuart Pearce.
de Guzman is still eligible to play for Canada but I would be shocked if he did. I'm sure he'll play for the Netherlands.
He likely won't sniff the Dutch squad, much less crack the starting 11. Sneijder, van der Vaart, Afellay, Janssen, Fer and Strootman are all ahead of him on the depthchart as a CM/AM. And then there's competition from a bunch of other notable's such as Wijnaldum, Falkenburg, Schaars, de Zeeuw. His odds are very slim and I think it's fair to say he made the wrong choice.
He likely won't sniff the Dutch squad, much less crack the starting 11. Sneijder, van der Vaart, Afellay, Janssen, Fer and Strootman are all ahead of him on the depthchart as a CM/AM. And then there's competition from a bunch of other notable's such as Wijnaldum, Falkenburg, Schaars, de Zeeuw. His odds are very slim and I think it's fair to say he made the wrong choice.
Well that's good for us I guess. He is eligible to play for Canada, Jamaica and the Netherlands. Hopefully his brother (who plays for Canada) can bring him on board.
And I like the lack of Pieters. If he's still in the starting eleven by then we're in trouble.
I forgot to mention de Vrij (Feyenoord), van Aanholt (Chelsea), Anita and Blind (both Ajax) as possible back options (in that order), alongside Drenthe. Plenty of depth for once.
I like this best, and believe this is the closest to reality for now. I don't see us not playing Müller, who is probably the most consistent of all our non-defenseman for basically anyone. (Hell, I still take Müller over Özil, time and again.) Your words on Gomez seem spot on to me, as well. He's not too old yet to not hope he can improve on some aspects of his game.
It's pretty amazing to have Müller/Özil/Götze there and Schürrle/Reus at the very least as potential substitutes there. Some friends and me speculated a little while back how we imagined 4-2-4-0 could be the next big thing in tactics, like 4-2-3-1 is right now, with no classic striker (like Gomez), but four players like the ones above, of which all have finishing skills, and always one/two of them going deep. Could see it happen as a darkhorse bet.
I agree with your assessment of Boateng in the middle as well. I don't think Schmelzer will actually be on the team, as that position is the one we'll have to fill. I'd probably try Träsch there before Schmelzer, but as you pointed out, three years is a long time, and maybe a wild card like Löwe will be ready for that spot then - and it probably wouldn't take a long time to beat Schmelzer for the spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerOlli
---------------Bender--------Leitner (Gündogan)
But as known, Löw don't let the best players play. It will be a team with mostly bayern players again.
Oh, come on. Bender, Gündogan and even Leitner ahead of Schweinsteiger...? That's probably even more unrealistic than Lehmann saying Weidenfeller > Neuer, even as a projection for three years from now.
I like this best, and believe this is the closest to reality for now. I don't see us not playing Müller, who is probably the most consistent of all our non-defenseman for basically anyone. (Hell, I still take Müller over Özil, time and again.) Your words on Gomez seem spot on to me, as well. He's not too old yet to not hope he can improve on some aspects of his game.
It's pretty amazing to have Müller/Özil/Götze there and Schürrle/Reus at the very least as potential substitutes there. Some friends and me speculated a little while back how we imagined 4-2-4-0 could be the next big thing in tactics, like 4-2-3-1 is right now, with no classic striker (like Gomez), but four players like the ones above, of which all have finishing skills, and always one/two of them going deep. Could see it happen as a darkhorse bet.
I agree with your assessment of Boateng in the middle as well. I don't think Schmelzer will actually be on the team, as that position is the one we'll have to fill. I'd probably try Träsch there before Schmelzer, but as you pointed out, three years is a long time, and maybe a wild card like Löwe will be ready for that spot then - and it probably wouldn't take a long time to beat Schmelzer for the spot.
Oh, come on. Bender, Gündogan and even Leitner ahead of Schweinsteiger...? That's probably even more unrealistic than Lehmann saying Weidenfeller > Neuer, even as a projection for three years from now.
In 2014? I think Leitner has nearly the talent as Götze have.
Who did lead his team to the Bundesliga title, Bender or Schweinsteiger?
And Weidenfeller was better - equal with Neuer in the last 2 seasons.
In 2014? I think Leitner has nearly the talent as Götze have.
Maybe, but talent is just one of many variables.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerOlli
Who did lead his team to the Bundesliga title, Bender or Schweinsteiger?
Please, tell me that you're not serious. That's a really stupid argument in any team sport. Bender didn't "lead" Dortmund to the title last year. He was playing very well in a team that played as a better team. Not any less, not more, either. Schweinsteiger on the other hand was a lot closer to actually "leading" Bayern to Champions league final last year, along with said Bundesliga title. That season he was world-class. Not last season, I gladly admit, but Bender has quite a way to go to be on that level Schweinsteiger already has proven he can play on. He's further in his development than Xavi was at his age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerOlli
And Weidenfeller was better - equal with Neuer in the last 2 seasons.
No, he wasn't, and it really wasn't remotely close. He has absolutely nothing in his game, except for some meaningless stats over Neuer. Not the reflexes, not the one-on-one, not the box-control, not the ability with the ball. Weidenfeller is a good goalie, above average, but nothing more. The reason he isn't on the national team isn't some conspiracy (as he stated), it's that he isn't among the best three, at the very least. I don't think Wiese should be there, either, but oh well.
. The fact your saying I'm only supporting Germany because the heritage / history etc is better is quite a bit insulting, Ignorant, very ignorant. 
