HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Stajan to Phoenix

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-25-2011, 07:58 PM
  #1
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 50
Stajan to Phoenix

Quite a few Yotes posters on the main board are making it sound as if Phoenix is desperate for a 2nd/3rd line centre so there is some sense that Phoenix could have an interest in Stajan. I've been saying this for a long time that Stajan to Phoenix makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. After this season, his salary (2.5 million ) is a perfect fit as they seem to always run on an internal budget. He fills a need on their roster and he would get proper minutes in Phoenix. I also think he would flourish playing for a coach like Tippet, and Stajan is a good guy I would love to see him go to a different team and have success playing there.

Obviously the Flames would benefit for moving him just to get out from under his contract. Keep in mind Stajan's value is currently about that of a rock, what do you guys think or what would you want back from Phoenix to make this deal go thru?

Personally, I would be ecstatic with a 3rd or 4th round pick.


Last edited by Johnny Hoxville: 08-25-2011 at 09:16 PM.
Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2011, 09:00 PM
  #2
HoshiBlitz
Registered User
 
HoshiBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red mile.
Posts: 527
vCash: 513
If we could find someone to take on Stajan then that would be wonderful. I kind of want to see how he comes back this year and give him another chance, but I don't see him winning the spot to play on any of the top 3 lines. A 3rd or 4th round pick would be suffice seeing as there really is no spot for Stajan and the fact that we already only hold 5 picks.

HoshiBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2011, 09:25 PM
  #3
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,359
vCash: 500
I doubt we have the 2nd round pick we'd have to send with him to dump his unwanted salary.

slappipappi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2011, 09:34 PM
  #4
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
I doubt we have the 2nd round pick we'd have to send with him to dump his unwanted salary.
If a team has a need for player X, then that player does not have negative trade value. A need creates a demand, therefore it is possible to trade Stajan despite what you may believe. Its quite simple actually, PM me if you need a further explanation.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2011, 11:21 PM
  #5
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,817
vCash: 114
I think the Flames are better off if they wait until into the season. If Stajan has been working on his conditioning the way I've heard, he could bounce back and boost his value significantly.

SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2011, 11:32 PM
  #6
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
I think the Flames are better off if they wait until into the season. If Stajan has been working on his conditioning the way I've heard, he could bounce back and boost his value significantly.
I'm not saying this kind of thinking is totally wrong, but I find it very hard to believe that Stajan will be able to increase any value he currently has playing while 4th line minutes. If anything his value could go down even more. Its the offseason and this is when teams may be willing to take a chance on a player. If we are going to unload the worst contract on our team, the time is now IMO.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 12:00 AM
  #7
Oblivion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
It will be dependent upon your opinion of Stajan, if you think he'll follow up next season with another poor showing we'd be best to move him now.

If you expect him to have a ounce back year, then we should be holding on to him as we've got so few players returning after next year.

I'm hoping that Stajan shows up to camp in shape and with a chip on his shoulder, playing like he's got something to prove. We've got a plethora of 2nd/3rd line centres, I'm hoping someone ups their game.

Oblivion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 01:01 AM
  #8
Flamefan1
Registered User
 
Flamefan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 254
vCash: 500
I would take any pick or prospect just to get rid of Stajan's contract.

Flamefan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 01:16 AM
  #9
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,817
vCash: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I'm not saying this kind of thinking is totally wrong, but I find it very hard to believe that Stajan will be able to increase any value he currently has playing while 4th line minutes. If anything his value could go down even more. Its the offseason and this is when teams may be willing to take a chance on a player. If we are going to unload the worst contract on our team, the time is now IMO.
The minutes he plays are certainly something to take into consideration. I just think that, with a cash poor team like Phx (or any other floor-level team, who would be most interested in him) they might see greater benefit once Calgary has paid a significant portion of his $4.5m salary for this upcoming season.

Not to get too optimistic, but maybe he'll even end up being worth keeping around. Haha

SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 03:21 AM
  #10
neo45
Registered User
 
neo45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 153
vCash: 500
I bet they'd have interest next season


But now? Why would the most cash strapped team take a player with salary $1 million OVER his cap hit this season? Not to mention the fact that he underperformed big time last season

If Phoenix was desperate for a centre couldn't they have kept Belanger?

neo45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 06:05 AM
  #11
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
If a team has a need for player X, then that player does not have negative trade value. A need creates a demand, therefore it is possible to trade Stajan despite what you may believe. Its quite simple actually, PM me if you need a further explanation.
Phoenix may have a need for a good center, but that doesn't mean they will spend $3.5M of cap hit on a player who is not a good center.

Stajan plays at a level less than his contract.

That means no one will give up positive value to get him.

They may move an unwanted contract if they think the fit is better or you can entice them to make a trade by throwing in a draft pick or a decent player.

To get rid of Kotalik, we had to trade Regher and a 2nd round pick.

PM me if you need further clarification of the concept of "negative value".

slappipappi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 10:49 AM
  #12
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 50
Right now the Coyotes depth at centre looks something like this:

Turris
Hanzel
Gordon

Going forward they will have to try and fill a hole internally with someone like Chipchura maybe? That is one ugly lineup down the middle. Suddenly someone like Stajan who could had be had for next to nothing looks like not too bad of an option considering he's put up over 50 pts twice in his career.

Again, there would be a need for Stajan by the Coyotes, thus creating a demand for him. Stajan would have POSITIVE value to Phoenix (albeit not much), but I do think a trade to the desert is definitely possible. If we have an oppertunity to lose his contract, I would do it. The long term savings on his cap hit to me is so much more valuable than what Stajan brings (or doesn't bring) to the Flames.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 11:14 AM
  #13
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post

Again, there would be a need for Stajan by the Coyotes, thus creating a demand for him. Stajan would have POSITIVE value to Phoenix (albeit not much), but I do think a trade to the desert is definitely possible. If we have an oppertunity to lose his contract, I would do it. The long term savings on his cap hit to me is so much more valuable than what Stajan brings (or doesn't bring) to the Flames.
Demand is actually created when more than one person desires the same thing.

Since Calgary likely would love to rid themselves of Stajan's cap hit, unless two teams really want him, there is no real demand. There are other centers out there for Phoenix to choose, even if they decide they want one.

slappipappi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 11:23 AM
  #14
The Gnome
Registered User
 
The Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Right now the Coyotes depth at centre looks something like this:

Turris
Hanzel
Gordon

Going forward they will have to try and fill a hole internally with someone like Chipchura maybe? That is one ugly lineup down the middle. Suddenly someone like Stajan who could had be had for next to nothing looks like not too bad of an option considering he's put up over 50 pts twice in his career.

Again, there would be a need for Stajan by the Coyotes, thus creating a demand for him. Stajan would have POSITIVE value to Phoenix (albeit not much), but I do think a trade to the desert is definitely possible. If we have an oppertunity to lose his contract, I would do it. The long term savings on his cap hit to me is so much more valuable than what Stajan brings (or doesn't bring) to the Flames.
You are right. The demand is created by a teams need's. It's easy to say Stajan has "negative value", but he would be a great fit on many teams around the league potentially. If a GM thinks he can rebound, he looks to be a good fit, and the cap hit / contract length will work then he will have positive value to them. A low pick/prospect is not much to give if you can get a Stajan who wins FO's and puts up 50 points.

The Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 11:27 AM
  #15
The Gnome
Registered User
 
The Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
Demand is actually created when more than one person desires the same thing.

Since Calgary likely would love to rid themselves of Stajan's cap hit, unless two teams really want him, there is no real demand. There are other centers out there for Phoenix to choose, even if they decide they want one.
You are talking in an absolute sense. Fans have no idea the value of Stajan league wide. There could easily be a number of teams who would want him for a low price, like PHX for example.

Yes there are other centres out there, but Stajan could be had for cheap and his potential to rebound in the right situation is pretty high IMO. He's certainly not my type of player, but he's in the NHL for a reason. A team that can afford his cap hit for the next few years would easily consider Stajan as an option.

The Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 12:36 PM
  #16
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,817
vCash: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
Phoenix may have a need for a good center, but that doesn't mean they will spend $3.5M of cap hit on a player who is not a good center.

Stajan plays at a level less than his contract.

That means no one will give up positive value to get him.

They may move an unwanted contract if they think the fit is better or you can entice them to make a trade by throwing in a draft pick or a decent player.

To get rid of Kotalik, we had to trade Regher and a 2nd round pick.

PM me if you need further clarification of the concept of "negative value".
Don't be an idiot. Buffalo and Phoenix are absolutely nothing alike; Buffalo does not have an internal cap, nor did they need a 3rd/4th line winger. Phoenix CAN use Stajan, regardless of whether or not he plays below his cap value, and thus he may well be considered a positive value asset once his salary drops below his cap hit.

SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 12:38 PM
  #17
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
You are talking in an absolute sense. Fans have no idea the value of Stajan league wide. There could easily be a number of teams who would want him for a low price, like PHX for example.

Yes there are other centres out there, but Stajan could be had for cheap and his potential to rebound in the right situation is pretty high IMO. He's certainly not my type of player, but he's in the NHL for a reason. A team that can afford his cap hit for the next few years would easily consider Stajan as an option.
That is it, this is the key right there, and what Slappi boy doesn't get. Phoenix is not in a position to go out and trade for a top guy. Stajan could be had for next to nothing in terms of assets, and he could put up 40-50 pts next year for the Yotes which would be a HUGE upgrade over anyone else they currently have with the exception of Turris. Stajan would instantly become their 2nd best centre.

They have the cap space for him, after this season he becomes very affordable, and the cost to get him is very low. It would be a perfect fit from both sides IMO.


Last edited by Johnny Hoxville: 08-26-2011 at 12:52 PM.
Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 01:03 PM
  #18
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
That is it, this is the key right there, and what Slappi boy doesn't get. Phoenix is not in a position to go out and trade for a top guy. Stajan could be had for next to nothing in terms of assets, and he could put up 40-50 pts next year for the Yotes which would be a HUGE upgrade over anyone else they currently have with the exception of Turris. Stajan would instantly become their 2nd best centre.

They have the cap space for him, after this season he becomes very affordable, and the cost to get him is very low. It would be a perfect fit from both sides IMO.

What you don't get is that Stajan can be had for less than nothing.

You put virtulaly anyone one the first line and give them PP time they will put up 40-50 points and you will not make the playoffs.

If Stajan was a UFA he would be getting a 1 year deal for $1M at most. There's his value.

slappipappi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 01:09 PM
  #19
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
That is it, this is the key right there, and what Slappi boy doesn't get. Phoenix is not in a position to go out and trade for a top guy.
You are assuming that Phoenix has 2 choices, Stajan or nothing.

There are many other choices. One includes getting Stajan but offering up a player they don't want, another is asking Calagry to kick in a draft pick to cover Stajan's negative value. They could trade for another player.

PLus Stajan is making $4.5M this season.

Phoenix is broke and you think they want Stajan at $4.5M?

slappipappi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 01:13 PM
  #20
HoshiBlitz
Registered User
 
HoshiBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red mile.
Posts: 527
vCash: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
What you don't get is that Stajan can be had for less than nothing.

You put virtulaly anyone one the first line and give them PP time they will put up 40-50 points and you will not make the playoffs.

If Stajan was a UFA he would be getting a 1 year deal for $1M at most. There's his value.
If a team has a need they will do whatever they can to fill it. Why did Florida spend so much on 2nd and 3rd liners? Because they had a need to reach the cap floor. How many teams would play Fleischmann 4.5? Phoenix NEEDS centers and they aren't in a position where the can target a big fish. Maybe they won't take Stajan with his 4.5, but the point is they need a center and they don't have many chips to use.

HoshiBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 01:53 PM
  #21
Bobs your uncle
Registered User
 
Bobs your uncle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sadly, in Calgary
Posts: 589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Quite a few Yotes posters on the main board are making it sound as if Phoenix is desperate for a 2nd/3rd line centre so there is some sense that Phoenix could have an interest in Stajan. I've been saying this for a long time that Stajan to Phoenix makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. After this season, his salary (2.5 million ) is a perfect fit as they seem to always run on an internal budget. He fills a need on their roster and he would get proper minutes in Phoenix. I also think he would flourish playing for a coach like Tippet, and Stajan is a good guy I would love to see him go to a different team and have success playing there.

Obviously the Flames would benefit for moving him just to get out from under his contract. Keep in mind Stajan's value is currently about that of a rock, what do you guys think or what would you want back from Phoenix to make this deal go thru?

Personally, I would be ecstatic with a 3rd or 4th round pick.
I hope you're suggesting the Flames give Phoenix the 3rd or 4th round pick for taking on Stajan and his contract and not the other way around.

Bobs your uncle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 02:42 PM
  #22
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,817
vCash: 114
Seriously, the Flames DO NOT NEED TO MOVE STAJAN. Getting rid of his contract might be nice, but if they can't get assets for him, who cares? Have an overpaid 3rd/4th line centre. They have no cap issues heading forward.

SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 02:54 PM
  #23
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
You are assuming that Phoenix has 2 choices, Stajan or nothing.

There are many other choices. One includes getting Stajan but offering up a player they don't want, another is asking Calagry to kick in a draft pick to cover Stajan's negative value. They could trade for another player.

PLus Stajan is making $4.5M this season.

Phoenix is broke and you think they want Stajan at $4.5M?
I like how you put words in my mouth, where did I once say he was their only choice? I said they have a need, Stajan fits that need, and he would not cost much to aquire. He would cost significantly less to aquire than another 2nd line centre that can put up 40-50 pts. Name me one other centre (other than Gomez), who can put those kind of numbers and could be had for a 4th round pick? Yes his salary is 4.5 million this season, but that is one year. The next 2 it is 2.5 million, which fits their budget nicely.

I don't know why you keep arguing facts, which is what I am stating. You keep arguing your opinion, when you are not an NHL GM, and you really have no idea if GM's view Stajan as having negative value. Obviously alot would, but with Phoenix imparticular I would speculate they may not for reason I have mentioned. The Buffalo and Phoenix comparisions are entirely different in nature and they do not make a good arugment.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 02:59 PM
  #24
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Formerly MVW
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Seriously, the Flames DO NOT NEED TO MOVE STAJAN. Getting rid of his contract might be nice, but if they can't get assets for him, who cares? Have an overpaid 3rd/4th line centre. They have no cap issues heading forward.
No we don't, but the benefits of moving him largely out weigh keeping him. Depending on who we resign next year we may or may not have as much cap space as some people think. Moving Stajan for a draft pick (any draft pick) would be a gift.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2011, 03:22 PM
  #25
Deen
Registered User
 
Deen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,289
vCash: 50
I think we should hold on to him. He gets more hate than any player I have ever seen around here. He's truly not THAT bad. His contract sucks, but he can still contribute. I expect a lot of people to switch their opinion on him similar to Olli Jokinen this past season.

Deen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.