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Old
09-24-2011, 03:18 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by GoChiefsGo View Post
The Ducks will regret keeping Fowler last year, in spite of the fact that he had a good year (offensively). I know this isn't a Cam Fowler topic, but would you rather have a one-dimensional offensive defenseman (Cam Fowler now), or one that had another year (or two) in junior to become an all around defenseman (what they could have done)?

Fowler will struggle in the NHL, from a defensive standpoint. Mark my words. We won't have to worry about that with Johansen.
agreed, Fowler played the easy minutes with Anaheim and was still exposed alot. Impressive numbers yes.. but he did get alot of minutes with the best line in hockey..

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09-24-2011, 08:40 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by GoChiefsGo View Post
The Ducks will regret keeping Fowler last year, in spite of the fact that he had a good year (offensively). I know this isn't a Cam Fowler topic, but would you rather have a one-dimensional offensive defenseman (Cam Fowler now), or one that had another year (or two) in junior to become an all around defenseman (what they could have done)?

Fowler will struggle in the NHL, from a defensive standpoint. Mark my words. We won't have to worry about that with Johansen.
Oh boy. Assuming you are correct, that he is currently a one dimensional player, you can't learn to be complete player at the NHL level? Not even going to touch that Johansen comment so early on a Saturday morning.

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09-24-2011, 04:24 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
agreed, Fowler played the easy minutes with Anaheim and was still exposed alot. Impressive numbers yes.. but he did get alot of minutes with the best line in hockey..
This shows you didn't watch the Ducks or bother to look at the stats. Fowler played comparable minutes to Toni Lydman, making him a second pairing d-man. Did he kill penalties? No, but name me a rookie who does. Otherwise, he took a regular shift and the Ducks didn't shy from having him on the ice with opponents best lines.
And while he did get time with one of the best lines in the game, he also spent time with 2 of the worst. The Ducks 3rd and 4th lines were godawful (and probably will be again this year).

Here's a thought for the Johansen fan club--maybe your boy can show that he really wants a job with the big boys so you don't have to tear down Fowler to feel better. Because, quite frankly, I've noticed Cam Atkinson more the him so far.

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09-24-2011, 05:21 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Because, quite frankly, I've noticed Cam Atkinson more the him so far.
Agree. If he didn't score the goal in the peg I would say he has been pretty unimpressive for someone that has a chance to grab a center position.

But so has Brassard and he's suppose to compete for our number 2.

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09-24-2011, 06:19 PM
  #80
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How has Johansen, a player that has played 1 preseason game been unimpressive? Reports show that he was a standout at the owner's tournament. He scored a goal in a game that featured a team full of nobodies against a stacked Jets team. I don't understand how a person appearing in one out of four preseason games could be judged as unimpressive, I mean come on, if you did watch the stream, you saw him a whopping 15 or so minutes so far this preseason.

And to Capn, you don't live in Ohio do you? Therefore you have not been to any training camp sessions, therefore you are making your observation based on the fact that Johansen has played one game while Atkinson has played three games I think, maybe two. Of course your going to notice Atkinson more based on the fact that he has more games than Johansen. You call out people for making assumptions about Fowler, but yet you do the same to Johansen.

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09-24-2011, 06:44 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
How has Johansen, a player that has played 1 preseason game been unimpressive? Reports show that he was a standout at the owner's tournament. He scored a goal in a game that featured a team full of nobodies against a stacked Jets team. I don't understand how a person appearing in one out of four preseason games could be judged as unimpressive, I mean come on, if you did watch the stream, you saw him a whopping 15 or so minutes so far this preseason.
Is this Ryan? Doug I know you love Johansen, I do too. But I only call what I see. I agree the sample size is small (a couple of prospects camps and main camp this year and last). But for a highly rated draft pick who more than 50% of the posters on this board have slated for super stardom and a shoe in for making the team this year he has not been overly impressive. That doesn't mean he isn't going to be a good player or not make the team.

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09-24-2011, 07:09 PM
  #82
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This has nothing to do with me being a fan of a player. This has everything to do with judging a player as being underwhelming based on one preseason game. I mean you are seriously judging him based on one game, because you can't possibly be judging him on last season, and you certainly can't be judging him based on the owners tourny in which he stood out, so that only leaves the one preseason game. I'd call it like I see it also, but the thing is, is like you, I've only seen him once via a live stream this season. There is no way you can form an opinion on his play based on one stream, whereas someone like Atkinson has been seen many more times. If he underwhelms in the next two or so preseason games then sure, I'll be right with you saying he has been underwhelming, but I'll wait until those games take place before I say he's been overwhelming, average, or underwhelming. I mean come on, we can play this game with a lot of players that haven't looked awesome in there one or two seen games.

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09-24-2011, 07:10 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Byrral View Post
Is this Ryan? Doug I know you love Johansen, I do too. But I only call what I see. I agree the sample size is small (a couple of prospects camps and main camp this year and last). But for a highly rated draft pick who more than 50% of the posters on this board have slated for super stardom and a shoe in for making the team this year he has not been overly impressive. That doesn't mean he
isn't going to be a good player or not make the team.
So in the one game he played where he scored a goal, on a team that had only a couple starters, he looked unimpressive ? Yes Atkinson has looked great, no rule that they both don't make the team

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09-24-2011, 07:40 PM
  #84
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Here's an idea--for once, perhaps the prospect should earn his spot instead of being annointed.

This team has 4 NHL-ready centers including two that are excellent in the faceoff circle. I see no reason to hand a spot to Johansen unless he's truly the best choice. There hasn't been anything noteworthy about Johansen to this point when compared to a guy like Mayorov that finally seems NHL-ready.

It isn't the end of the world for Johansen to go back to juniors. Heck Phoenix just sent Gormley down. I consider it progress if we have too many solid options to hand it to someone just because of their draft position.

The guy who should be worried? John Moore. This guy really needs to do something the rest of camp. I think he's really slipping on our prospect depth chart--Savard really seems the more NHL-ready choice between the two.

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09-24-2011, 07:47 PM
  #85
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Wow, you guys might want to read my post again, what my sample size is and what I think about Ryan Johansen before overreacting to my opinion. In my mind other players have stood out more this preseason and I still feel this way even after hearing your decenting opinions. I can't wait to see who he plays with against Buffalo.

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09-24-2011, 08:59 PM
  #86
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I have a hunch Johansen will make the team, I havenít seen him play but based on his draft status and the organizations needs my guess he will make the team and play albeit on the fourth line for most of the season. The organization is very aware of the Brule/Filatov syndrome but if they get lucky with Johansen he could contribute next March or April when extra help is needed. Letís face it, the Jackets need the playoffs badly and the organization may take a risk and get Johansen rolling sooner than later.

As for preseason play it's important but not that important when compared to entire NHL season.

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09-24-2011, 09:04 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I have a hunch Johansen will make the team, I havenít seen him play but based on his draft status and the organizations needs my guess he will make the team and play albeit on the fourth line for most of the season. The organization is very aware of the Brule/Filatov syndrome but if they get lucky with Johansen he could contribute next March or April when extra help is needed. Letís face it, the Jackets need the playoffs badly and the organization may take a risk and get Johansen rolling sooner than later.

As for preseason play it's important but not that important when compared to entire NHL season.
The nice part is they have a nine additional games to get a better assessment when the team is together and the games mean something.

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09-24-2011, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrral View Post
The nice part is they have a nine additional games to get a better assessment when the team is together and the games mean something.
Good point, I was actually thinking the entire season but if he totally flops out of the gate thay can send him down.. I'm hoping not though (assuming the CBJ give him a shot).

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09-24-2011, 09:33 PM
  #89
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I don't think I would classify center as an organizational need for Columbus. We have a legit top line center (Carter), three centers who can play on the top line, but make excellent second line centers (Vermette, Umberger, and Brassard), another guy who can play second line center if needed (Prospal), and two depth centers who look very good on the third or fourth line (Mackenzie, Pahlsson). We are pretty stacked at center when it comes to depth, so the only way Johansen makes it is if he proves he is ready now. Obviously all those players I mentioned can't be centers because we would be left with no wingers, but fact remains that Johansen probably isn't going to be given a position on the team because he was #4 in 2010. I will say however, unless he falters completely, I can't see him not getting 9 games to prove himself if he doesn't quite prove himself completely during the off-season.

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09-24-2011, 10:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post


Yeah, I'm sure Cam Fowler is much worse having Scott Niedermayer coach him personally than he would have been staying in Juniors.

I needed a laugh.
Yeah, you're right, Scott Niedermayer and his home cooking will benefit Cam Fowler big time. Steve Mason had an epic rookie season too, we all know how that ended up. These kids all go through growing pains, and Cam Fowler won't be an exception. I'd be willing to bet that we've seen his max potential, and that he takes a major step back this season.

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This shows you didn't watch the Ducks or bother to look at the stats. Fowler played comparable minutes to Toni Lydman, making him a second pairing d-man. Did he kill penalties? No, but name me a rookie who does. Otherwise, he took a regular shift and the Ducks didn't shy from having him on the ice with opponents best lines.
And while he did get time with one of the best lines in the game, he also spent time with 2 of the worst. The Ducks 3rd and 4th lines were godawful (and probably will be again this year).

Here's a thought for the Johansen fan club--maybe your boy can show that he really wants a job with the big boys so you don't have to tear down Fowler to feel better. Because, quite frankly, I've noticed Cam Atkinson more the him so far.
Drew Doughty killed penalties with the Kings as a rookie. Zack Bogosian, Luke Schenn ... or, if you want a more recent example, what about Chris Tanev with the Vancouver Canucks in the Stanley Cup Finals this year?

To your final point, you're just feeding my original point - Atkinson is a more NHL ready player because he was brought along and developed properly. Give Johansen until he's 23 years old and see who you notice in the Jackets' fall camp more - him or our then-19 year old prospect? This is the reason Cam Fowler will regress, in my opinion. If you don't like or agree with that opinion, that's fine ... but it sure won't be the first time that a player has had a solid rookie season when being rushed along, followed by a lackluster career afterwards. Remember Marek Svatos and Petr Prucha?

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Originally Posted by bizoncol View Post
Thomas Hickey. 4th overall in 2007 has never played an NHL game. Possibly Zach Hamill from the same draft. Bruins were loaded at center as the Kings at defense.
I saw those guys in junior, and I don't know that sending them back to junior really held them up all that much. Neither of them really have NHL frames, and it's tough to bring guys along that simply aren't strong enough. I thought Hickey had a real good shot at being a top-pairing guy, but he just hasn't come along that well. He was lights out in junior, at both ends of the rink - very Kris Russell-esque.

Both are still somewhat prospects, so who knows how they'll end up?

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09-25-2011, 09:55 AM
  #91
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What's surprising in this thread is that at the core of most posts, almost everyone is saying Johansen should only make the team if he earns it. The rest is just positioning

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09-25-2011, 12:00 PM
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What's surprising in this thread is that at the core of most posts, almost everyone is saying Johansen should only make the team if he earns it. The rest is just positioning
Funny, you're right.

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09-25-2011, 02:50 PM
  #93
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What's surprising in this thread is that at the core of most posts, almost everyone is saying Johansen should only make the team if he earns it. The rest is just positioning
Yeah it is definitely like that, I think the reason for jockeying for position is the people who think those of us who like Johansen a lot are just think he should be given a spot, when in fact we are stating that he needs to earn it. Its annoying when people say its better for him to be sent down, when the fact of the matter is, what's better for him, is what he will decide, with how well he plays, not some preconceived notion that you must spend two years in the WHL to be developed properly.

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09-25-2011, 05:54 PM
  #94
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So now 2 games for Johan , and 2 goals. pretty impressive for not impressive

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09-25-2011, 06:20 PM
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I don't know. Johansen's style seems to be a little to lackadaisical for my tastes. I think he still needs to figure out that the NHL is faster paced because he has the real lazy stride and stance that reminds me to much of Nash, but I don't think Johansen has the explosive skating that Nash has to rely on that type of away from the puck style. I don't know, its hard to explain from me, but he just seems like he thinks he can slow the game down to much, which causes him to lose the puck because the NHL is fast paced compared to the WHL. We will see, but so far after two preseason games I haven't been impressed.


Edit: well I read some reviews from people actually at the game, and they saw some things that I was able to focus on, and I must admit that maybe I jumped the gun on my observation based on the fact that sometimes I didn't know if I was watching Johansen or not because of the feed quality. Hopefully they are right and I'm wrong, because I'd love to buy a #19 Johansen jersey.


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09-25-2011, 07:29 PM
  #96
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Only one goal?! All is lost! ALL IS LOST!

BRULE! PICARD! WHY DID WE EVEN LET HIM SET FOOT IN COLUMBUS

HE SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN PORTLAND TIL HE WAS 22

ALL IS LOST

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09-25-2011, 07:34 PM
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That right there is the exact reason why these arguments transpire, complete misunderstanding of each sides point of view, to the point where some on each side think the other side is nothing but extremists.

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09-25-2011, 08:35 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I don't know. Johansen's style seems to be a little to lackadaisical for my tastes. I think he still needs to figure out that the NHL is faster paced because he has the real lazy stride and stance that reminds me to much of Nash, but I don't think Johansen has the explosive skating that Nash has to rely on that type of away from the puck style. I don't know, its hard to explain from me, but he just seems like he thinks he can slow the game down to much, which causes him to lose the puck because the NHL is fast paced compared to the WHL. We will see, but so far after two preseason games I haven't been impressed.


Edit: well I read some reviews from people actually at the game, and they saw some things that I was able to focus on, and I must admit that maybe I jumped the gun on my observation based on the fact that sometimes I didn't know if I was watching Johansen or not because of the feed quality. Hopefully they are right and I'm wrong, because I'd love to buy a #19 Johansen jersey.

I was at the game and I tried to focus on Johansen. The goal was nice, of course, and he had a decent game. I get what you're saying about his lackadaisical style - I noticed that as well - but then the next thing you know he ends up in the right spot. I remembered thinking the same thing about Dale Hawerchuk in his first few seasons when I'd go to a game and just focus in on him. It would look like he was floating, but then in a flash he'd be in the right place to grab the puck and put it in the back of the net. (Note: I'm not saying that RyJo's career will parallel Hawerchuk's, but we can hope right?)

Honestly, I think it's still a tough decision with all the center depth on the team whether Johan stays or goes. I have no doubt he'll get at least 5 regular season games, but I still feel it is 50/50 whether he sticks. I think they'll need to see how he responds in the more competitive environment that comes with the regular season. Hopefully he rises to the occasion.

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09-25-2011, 09:24 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I don't know. Johansen's style seems to be a little to lackadaisical for my tastes. I think he still needs to figure out that the NHL is faster paced because he has the real lazy stride and stance that reminds me to much of Nash, but I don't think Johansen has the explosive skating that Nash has to rely on that type of away from the puck style. I don't know, its hard to explain from me, but he just seems like he thinks he can slow the game down to much, which causes him to lose the puck because the NHL is fast paced compared to the WHL. We will see, but so far after two preseason games I haven't been impressed.


Edit: well I read some reviews from people actually at the game, and they saw some things that I was able to focus on, and I must admit that maybe I jumped the gun on my observation based on the fact that sometimes I didn't know if I was watching Johansen or not because of the feed quality. Hopefully they are right and I'm wrong, because I'd love to buy a #19 Johansen jersey.
This is a pretty common complaint about Johansens game especially from other portland fans. I must tell you, its not true. Johansen's skating style works really well for him. He takes big, long strides which makes it seem like he is not skating hard. A lot like Joe Thornton in that regard. He beats people to pucks more times than not and he generates a lot of breakaways with his speed. Simply put, he's plenty fast and plays with plenty of effort. He's got a pretty calm demeanor with the puck, he doesn't make a lot of extra movements.

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09-25-2011, 09:57 PM
  #100
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That right there is the exact reason why these arguments transpire, complete misunderstanding of each sides point of view, to the point where some on each side think the other side is nothing but extremists.
Ridiculous semantics deserve ridicule

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