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Iginla for Seguin

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Old
08-29-2011, 12:35 AM
  #51
Halpysback
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
Why wouldnt you take advantage of an elite player when you know you have the contending team to support him? You know Iginla would be playing with top level players and havea legitimate shot at taking more runs to the cup.

Seguin could very well be a top end player, but in 5 years from now who knows what the team around him could look like.
Because that time in the future, you know, also matters. If Boston makes this trade, don't win anything in the next 3 years and Iginla declines the way every single star player who has ever played his style has, while Seguin goes on to have 15 more years of #1 center play, Boston fans would be pissed beyond belief. Hell, even if they won, unless Iginla is a conne smythe player for them they'd still be pondering whether they could have done as much with Seguin and still have that #1 center. Would you say Boston did the right thing if they traded Seguin for Kaberle at the TD and won the cup this year?

Iginla doesn't come with any guarantees. Hell half the Calgary GDTs bemoan how ridiculously slow he's become any time he hits a cold streak. With Seguin Boston at least already won a cup with him being instrumental in one of the series as a 19 year old despite being undercut by Julien at every opportunity. And he has speed, which the Boston roster lacks. People here are pretending like Seguin is completely incapable of contributing, where the difference between Seguin and Iginla in a good playoff run (RS doesn't matter since Boston is a playoff team with either) would probably be 5-10 points and a tradeoff in speed from a center for physicality from a winger (and its not like that is Boston's top area of strength or anything). And 3 years from now Seguin is far more likely than not a better player than Iginla barring extenuating circumstances.

If everyone thought like you you'd have any contending team trade their next 20 first rounders for whatever roster improvement they could snag from anywhere.

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08-29-2011, 12:56 AM
  #52
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I love Iggy, one of my favorite players in the league but I would say no, I don't think Boston does this. It's risky, how much does Iginla have left on his current deal, 1 or 2 years. He may well not resign in this case and go somewhere else, like back to Calgary (and have a rising young center Seguin to play with). Even if Iginla stays, beyond that he no doubt will be declining, that's not enough Iginla to part with a young player with the talent and potential that Seguin, who has his whole career in front of him.

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08-29-2011, 12:59 AM
  #53
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Boston doesn't do this.... But if they did they could say they traded kessel for iginla, a 1st, and a 2nd

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08-29-2011, 01:01 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Because that time in the future, you know, also matters. If Boston makes this trade, don't win anything in the next 3 years and Iginla declines the way every single star player who has ever played his style has, while Seguin goes on to have 15 more years of #1 center play, Boston fans would be pissed beyond belief. Hell, even if they won, unless Iginla is a conne smythe player for them they'd still be pondering whether they could have done as much with Seguin and still have that #1 center. Would you say Boston did the right thing if they traded Seguin for Kaberle at the TD and won the cup this year?

Iginla doesn't come with any guarantees. Hell half the Calgary GDTs bemoan how ridiculously slow he's become any time he hits a cold streak. With Seguin Boston at least already won a cup with him being instrumental in one of the series as a 19 year old despite being undercut by Julien at every opportunity. And he has speed, which the Boston roster lacks. People here are pretending like Seguin is completely incapable of contributing, where the difference between Seguin and Iginla in a good playoff run (RS doesn't matter since Boston is a playoff team with either) would probably be 5-10 points and a tradeoff in speed from a center for physicality from a winger (and its not like that is Boston's top area of strength or anything). And 3 years from now Seguin is far more likely than not a better player than Iginla barring extenuating circumstances.

If everyone thought like you you'd have any contending team trade their next 20 first rounders for whatever roster improvement they could snag from anywhere.
I think if you talk to Dallas fans, they never regret trading Nieuwendyk for Iginla.
Even if it meant giving up a first ballot hall of famer, they got a stanley cup out of it. Boston is still young enough to survive as a contender for the next multiple years in the future without Seguin.

3 years from now, yes Seguin is probably a better player then Iginla is, but 3 years from now Seguin will not be a better player then Iginla is right now and likely never will.

Nobody can guarantee you a cup, and Seguin is no exception. Jarome is the closest thing to trading for a cup you can get short of Crosby, Lidstrom or Ovechkin in the NHL today

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08-29-2011, 01:02 AM
  #55
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Boston definitely does this. Iginla is the kind of elite player they need to get that cup they've been waiting years to get.

Oh wait.

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08-29-2011, 01:03 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
Boston definitely does this. Iginla is the kind of elite player they need to get that cup they've been waiting years to get.

Oh wait.
It shocks me that so many fans are content with 1 cup.

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08-29-2011, 01:12 AM
  #57
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One thing for Boston fans to consider is that there is always the chance that Seguin does not become anything better than a good #2 centre. He has all the skills, but nothing is guaranteed like many of you have mentioned and the Flames would be taking just as much of a risk as Boston in this trade by trading the face of their franchise.

IF Boston did this trade, they know that they are acquiring a star player that instantly becomes their best forward. They are getting someone who is one of the premier leaders in the game, and they are getting a guy that will keep them to be considered the favorites to win the Cup for at least the next few years.

Over the last 4-5 years Iginla has played much more of a perimeter game and relied more on his shot to score instead of powering his way to the net. His production overall has not tailed off that much and it has allowed him to be more durable as he reaches the twilight of his career. I think because of this, he will have similar production to what Sakic had as he gets older and he is still one of the best conditioned athletes in today's game. There are no signs that he is slowing down so its hard to say it is a certainty that he will decline in 2 years.

Anyways, its an interesting idea I think for both sides.

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08-29-2011, 01:37 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
It shocks me that so many fans are content with 1 cup.
With 30 teams and the salary cap, it just isn't worth sacrificing a (potential) future superstar for a great veteran since it won't increase the odds of winning by that much in the short term. Bruins no longer have that 39-year drought running so there isn't much pressure for them to win another cup, though naturally it would be nice to rack up rings (but when was the last time a team won two cups in a row?)

And in 2-3 years Seguin might be just as productive as Iggy so I really don't see why the Bruins would make this trade. There are some teams in win-now mode who would give up much more for him than Boston would be willing too.

Granted no one knows if Seguin will be yet another 50-60 point center or be a PPG+ stud but Bruins don't have any reason to take the chance.

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08-29-2011, 01:39 AM
  #59
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You're right. It's unheard-of. Youth is everything. Experience means nothing.
The team who just won the Stanley Cup certainly lacks experience.

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08-29-2011, 02:03 AM
  #60
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With 30 teams and the salary cap, it just isn't worth sacrificing a (potential) future superstar for a great veteran since it won't increase the odds of winning by that much in the short term. Bruins no longer have that 39-year drought running so there isn't much pressure for them to win another cup, though naturally it would be nice to rack up rings (but when was the last time a team won two cups in a row?)
Wow, I've always thought of Boston fans as being hungry for winning. Apparently you don't fall under that category. And I think you are wrong, I think adding Iginla significantly increases your chances of winning, a lot more than a little anyways.

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08-29-2011, 02:17 AM
  #61
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Do all you Boston fans think that Sequin in the future is going to become like Iginla? Putting up points scoring 30+ goals for 12 straight seasons?? Or even come close to his point production? The only thing Sequin has right now on Iginla is a cup ring.

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08-29-2011, 02:20 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by THEIRGOODSCARYGOOD View Post
Boston doesn't do this.... But if they did they could say they traded kessel for iginla, a 1st, and a 2nd
Thats exactly what I was thinking. Well, Kessel for Iginla, Hamilton, and Knight to be more precise...

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08-29-2011, 02:27 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
Do all you Boston fans think that Sequin in the future is going to become like Iginla? Putting up points scoring 30+ goals for 12 straight seasons?? Or even come close to his point production? The only thing Sequin has right now on Iginla is a cup ring.
Age, speed are a few other ones.

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08-29-2011, 02:39 AM
  #64
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Fair trade. Iggy's got a good 4-5 years left. helps Beantown be SCF bound for at least 1-2 more years.

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08-29-2011, 02:56 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
Do all you Boston fans think that Sequin in the future is going to become like Iginla? Putting up points scoring 30+ goals for 12 straight seasons?? Or even come close to his point production? The only thing Sequin has right now on Iginla is a cup ring.
Trouble is the last 12 years of Iginla's production don't help Boston. Sure Iginla will remain a productive player but he is clearly on the back nine. Seguin is just starting out, his career doesn't have to be as good as Iginla's for him to have the higher trade value.

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08-29-2011, 03:01 AM
  #66
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The only way I could see Boston pondering this is if Calgary threw in their first, thereby providing some insurance should Iginla decline or walk away two years from now. Of course that would be far too rich for the Flames.

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08-29-2011, 03:40 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Smytty 94 View Post
Would you rather win another cup in one of the net couple years and continue being a good, but not great team or nearly win a couple but always lose?(I'm not saying Boston can't win another or anything. It's obviously exaggerated to make a point) Chances are, most people would rather see another cup than a bit better hockey in 5 years
Does Iginla automatically guarantee Boston the cup? No. What if they do trade him for Seguin and Boston doesn't win the cup within the next two years. Sure they had Iggy but they just lost a future number 1 center for 2-3 years of Iginla. In the end, was it really worth it? Some people are acting like if Boston got Iginla, they would win the cup again . Boston is better off keeping Seguin and being competitive for a long time instead of just risking it for 2-3 years of an elite Iginla.

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08-29-2011, 05:02 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
It shocks me that so many fans are content with 1 cup.
They aren't, that's why they don't trade a future franchise player for an elite veteran that will only play at that elite level for a short period of time with no gaurantee of bringing home another cup

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08-29-2011, 05:08 AM
  #69
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I can't see the Bruins doing this.Seguin is too young and has too much talent to trade him for a 34? year pld player. Even as good as Iginla is, he may only play a couple of years for the Bruins while Seguin has to play 14-15 years to get to where Iginla is now.

Seguin may turn out to be a star, and soon, and I have a feeling it wont be very long before Seguin is every bit as good a player as Iginla is since it makes sense that Iginla is bound to slow down soon and Seguin's career is just starting and he sowed some amazing skill at times.

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08-29-2011, 05:51 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Why the heck would Flames fans be split on this? It's a no-brainer, insta-accept for them.



So if Boston had lost in the finals this trade all of a sudden makes sense, even though they'd have the exact same team?
It's by no means an insta-accept. I flat out wouldn't even think about doing it. Seguin has proved nothing. People overrate young players so badly on these boards. Seguin wasn't even a reason Boston won the cup. Late 30's Timmy won it for them, the guy none of you thought you should trade for when he was available because he was too old. At present Seguin isn't even as good as some of our 4th liners. Ie. Jackman

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08-29-2011, 05:53 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Pass.

Love Iginla but he doesn't come with a guaranteed Cup. You can't even guarantee that he'd resign in a year when his deal's up.
2 years on that deal, not one.

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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Iginla's game is nothing like Selanne's
Iginla's build is nothing Selanne's


But you know who Iginla reminds me of? Brendan Shanahan.

Shanahan's last great season was when he was 36 (40 goals, 81 points). His 37 year old season was 29-33-62.
38? 23-23-46

Iginla is 34. I give him 2 more years of 70+ point production.
Iginla is closer in size 6'1" 205 to Selanne 6'0" 196 than he is to Shanahan 6'3" 220. The style of play may be more consistent with Shanahan, but the physical build is more similar to Selanne. Shanahan was a great player, but tested out very average on fitness. Iginla is consistently first on the club in fitness testing.

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08-29-2011, 09:16 AM
  #72
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I dunno, I think I would like it for both teams.

Though seeing Iggy in a different jersey would take getting used to.

Boston would have a way higher chance at back to back cups, which hasn't been done for a few years, and then possibly the next year if they keep their group together.

Calgary would have Seguin/Backlund as their 1-2 punch in C for the future.

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08-29-2011, 09:45 AM
  #73
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Wow. This topic may go down but it never seems to die. Arguments about Iginla for Seguin/the 2010 2nd overall have been going on (it seems) since time immemorial.

First off, it's certainly an attractive thought for both teams... the Bruins, already a top contender for the next two cups, would immediately vault into the top 2-3 contenders right now (and I could certainly see an argument for the defending champs to be considered the top contender)... the Flames, mired in a swamp of mediocrity, would push the reset button with one of the most talented young forwards in the game, set themselves up for a top pick in 2012, and really go for the full organizational rebuild that they've been debating the past few seasons.

Unfortunately, the Bruins would be silly to do this.

Sacrificing the "might" of at least five more years of Seguin for the "should" of two seasons of Iginla might sound like a fair trade for a contender to make. But there's more than that to consider.

1. The Bruins have one of the youngest forward cores in the NHL. With continued solid defending (and reasonably fortunate re-signings) this team WILL be an annual contender for 5-10 years. One or more future Cups could very well be in the cards.

2. Depending on where you look, the odds the B's will win the 2012 Stanley Cup are between 8 and 12 percent. How much would Iginla add to their chances? 2-4%? Perhaps enough to vault them past the Canucks, Penguins and Caps on the early betting line - but enough to warrant sacrificing Seguin's bright future? I don't see it.

3. So many are presupposing Iginla's continued health and success, when neither is guaranteed. After 35, even annually healthy players like Iggy can experience quick and unpredictable setbacks ... to say nothing of the inevitable deterioration in skills and physical abilities that will happen in the next half decade for Calgary's captain. Selanne and Recchi are the exception, not the rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remember2004 View Post
Do all you Boston fans think that Sequin in the future is going to become like Iginla? Putting up points scoring 30+ goals for 12 straight seasons?? Or even come close to his point production? The only thing Sequin has right now on Iginla is a cup ring.
There's always the risk that your prospect won't pan out. There's a chance Segs could turn into the next David Legwand or Patrick Stefan. But, if you asked around the league, you'd probably be hard-pressed to find too many people who think - even after the mediocre rookie season he just had - that that's his fate. He's got the work ethic, skills and abilities to be an all-star forward for years to come. While Ignila's career has been an icon of success - 30g, 80-90p per season may well be in the cards.

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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Wow, I've always thought of Boston fans as being hungry for winning. Apparently you don't fall under that category. And I think you are wrong, I think adding Iginla significantly increases your chances of winning, a lot more than a little anyways.
Being hungry for winning doesn't mean you sacrifice the future for an uncertain present. Two years of Igninla, regardless of how good he is, don't make a team invulnerable. Injuries (something Boston - outside of Savard - avoided significantly in 2010-11) could derail the Bruins' season in one or both of those years - and then the B's would be left with no budding superstar and no more championships. It's by no means the absolute wrong thing to do, but it carries more than slight risk of completely blowing up.

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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
It's by no means an insta-accept. I flat out wouldn't even think about doing it. Seguin has proved nothing. People overrate young players so badly on these boards. Seguin wasn't even a reason Boston won the cup. Late 30's Timmy won it for them, the guy none of you thought you should trade for when he was available because he was too old. At present Seguin isn't even as good as some of our 4th liners. Ie. Jackman
I couldn't disagree more. While it's folly for anyone to suggest Calgary should accept an Iggy-for-Seggy deal on principle (Iginla's massive worth to the franchise/community is hard to put a value on) - Seguin played a significant role in the B's victory. Even discounting the fact that he won one game of the 7-game ECF essential by himself - his play through the latter half was as strong as it was unproductive.

Additionally, claiming that Seguin isn't good as Calgary's fourth-liners is an almost hilarious proposition. As it stands now, Seguin is likely to play on the Cup Champs' second or third line. He's not going to put up 11-11-22 totals again. Even conservative estimates see him touching 35-45 points in 11-12. If that's not good enough to play on the fourth line with the Flames - wow! They must have a Cup contender up there!

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08-29-2011, 09:45 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
It's by no means an insta-accept. I flat out wouldn't even think about doing it. Seguin has proved nothing. People overrate young players so badly on these boards. Seguin wasn't even a reason Boston won the cup. Late 30's Timmy won it for them, the guy none of you thought you should trade for when he was available because he was too old. At present Seguin isn't even as good as some of our 4th liners. Ie. Jackman
Five years from now Iginla will be retiring & Seguin will be chasing MVP awards & more Cups. No deal.

IF Iginla were 5yrs younger I'd do it. Unfortunately he's only got a few yrs of productive hockey left before he really begins to tail off.

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08-29-2011, 10:02 AM
  #75
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Boston would never do this. Iginla makes far too much money.

Iginla will not fetch a top prospect like Seguin in a trade.

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