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Iginla for Seguin

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Old
08-29-2011, 10:04 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Boston would never do this. Iginla makes far too much money.

Iginla will not fetch a top prospect like Seguin in a trade.
A top prospect like Seguin? Probably not.

A top prospect? Absolutely. I would love to see Iginla traded to the East for selfish reasons (to see him play more), and to see him win a Cup that he deserves so much.

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Old
08-29-2011, 10:46 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Juicy Rebound View Post
3. So many are presupposing Iginla's continued health and success, when neither is guaranteed. After 35, even annually healthy players like Iggy can experience quick and unpredictable setbacks ... to say nothing of the inevitable deterioration in skills and physical abilities that will happen in the next half decade for Calgary's captain. Selanne and Recchi are the exception, not the rule.
Everything about Iginla's career has been the exception. If we never would of traded Savard it would be scary to think how much better his numbers would of been than they already are. Iginla has been the definition of consistency in the NHL for the last 10 years and he continues to prove the critics wrong year after year. He's been on the decline for the last 3 years now, haven't you heard.

I can understand the B`s fans reasons for not wanting to part with Seguin and there concerns are totally valid. But there is so much more to Iginla than just his production, and I know people hear about this but they really do not know the full extent of it. Everything about Iginla is winning, the guy is just a warrior and never accepts defeat which is why Calgary rose out of the basement last year. I honestly think he would become the favorite player in Boston in no time. And while winning another Cup is not guaranteed, its hard to think another team that could beat Boston with Iginla on it.

And Flames fans are split on idea of this because of what Iginla means to the team and the city. Everyone wants to see him retire a Flame and can`t stand the thought of seeing him play for another team.

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08-29-2011, 10:49 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
I think if you talk to Dallas fans, they never regret trading Nieuwendyk for Iginla.
Even if it meant giving up a first ballot hall of famer, they got a stanley cup out of it. Boston is still young enough to survive as a contender for the next multiple years in the future without Seguin.
If Dallas won the cup with Iginla in 1999 and traded him for Niewendyk in 2000, I'd bet anything their fans would be furious. Boston already got a Stanley Cup with Seguin playing a big role at 19.

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3 years from now, yes Seguin is probably a better player then Iginla is, but 3 years from now Seguin will not be a better player then Iginla is right now and likely never will.
That's either a horrible overrating of Iginla or a horrible underrating of Seguin. Seguin might not reach what Iginla was in his prime but I'm willing to wager next season he'll end up within 20 points of Iginla while being a center and having an element of speed Jarome does not. The rest of Boston's core aside from Seguin isn't fast enough to compensate for Jarome's lack of speed.

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Nobody can guarantee you a cup, and Seguin is no exception. Jarome is the closest thing to trading for a cup you can get short of Crosby, Lidstrom or Ovechkin in the NHL today
He hasn't been out of the first round since the lockout and there are probably 20-30 players who could do more to "guarantee" a cup than Iginla in his present state. MSL, Getzlaf, Kesler, Briere, Franzen, Malkin, Toews (you know the dudes with the Conne Smythe) for starters. Iginla comes with about as much "guarantee" as Lecavalier.

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08-29-2011, 11:32 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
Iginla is a better player then Selanne, he will end his career with more goals, more assists and more points.

Selanne has 6 years on Iginla and Iggy is only 300 points back.With Iggy getting 40 goals on a line with Tanguay and Langkow, you can be sure he would kill it with Kreci/Bergeron and Lucic
Selanne has 3 seasons on Iggy, but yes, Iggy could reach him in points. But I seriously doubt he's going to reach his goal totals. When Selanne retires, Iggy's going to be 35 years old and some 140 goals, 190 assists and 330 points behind him. All it takes is one freak accident or a lockout and Iggy is going to fall short on every stat for sure.

The reason why Selanne is able to put out so many points so late in his career is because he is one of the best PP players ever. Iginla is ok, but nowhere near as good as Selanne. When his ES games begins to suffer, his stats will plummet.

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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Iginla is closer in size 6'1" 205 to Selanne 6'0" 196 than he is to Shanahan 6'3" 220. The style of play may be more consistent with Shanahan, but the physical build is more similar to Selanne. Shanahan was a great player, but tested out very average on fitness. Iginla is consistently first on the club in fitness testing.
Being fit is overrated. Brind'amour and Roberts were fit, yet their games diminished considerably with when they hit 38-39.

Age catches up to everyone. Even Selanne is broken. This summer he had surgery on the same knee that was operated during the lockout season. He said he has basically no cartilage left on his knee and he might need a knee replacement surgery in the future. That's why he hasn't signed yet, he wants to stay active after he retires, so he wants to be 100% sure his knee muscles are in such a shape, that he won't totally mess up his knee.

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08-29-2011, 11:44 AM
  #80
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Everything about Iginla's career has been the exception. If we never would of traded Savard it would be scary to think how much better his numbers would of been than they already are. Iginla has been the definition of consistency in the NHL for the last 10 years and he continues to prove the critics wrong year after year. He's been on the decline for the last 3 years now, haven't you heard.

I can understand the B`s fans reasons for not wanting to part with Seguin and there concerns are totally valid. But there is so much more to Iginla than just his production, and I know people hear about this but they really do not know the full extent of it. Everything about Iginla is winning, the guy is just a warrior and never accepts defeat which is why Calgary rose out of the basement last year. I honestly think he would become the favorite player in Boston in no time. And while winning another Cup is not guaranteed, its hard to think another team that could beat Boston with Iginla on it.

And Flames fans are split on idea of this because of what Iginla means to the team and the city. Everyone wants to see him retire a Flame and can`t stand the thought of seeing him play for another team.
I think what Flames fans aren't comprehending is, as Bruins fans we are elated we just won the Cup. Most of us feel Chiarelli's offseason moves (non-moves) are precisely what we needed. Kaberle gone (great guy, just stunk here), Corvo in. While Corvo isn't expected to play a major role, he doesn't need to. Corvo at his average will be already better than Kaberle was during his time in Boston.

Ryder (despite how good as he was at times in the playoffs) won't be missed. He was handed PP time, rather than having to earn it. His numbers were mediocre, & when he was mired in a goal slump, he brought nothing else to the table. Imo we'd be better served giving a rookie a shot to take his spot, & Chia did just that by letting him walk.

Recchi will be missed by B's fans, he was a heart & soul player & his leadership & experience that he brought to our young roster will be missed for sure. However his skating was atrocious at times, age caught up w/ Rex & he was slow to join the rush at times, often holding back his linemates to an extent. There were times during the season where the Bruins board was full of posts calling for Recchi to be benched or at least rested more. He was another was just handed PP time despite long stretches of struggles.

The main reason for optimism in Boston is the age of our 'core' players. Bergeron, Krejci, Horton, Lucic, Marchand, Seguin are all 25yrs old or younger. The experience they gained together going through the Cup run was great. These kids are all a year older than they were at the start of the season last year & are not in their primes yet. They are expected to only get better as they mature as athletes & as men. Just in keeping the core together, Chiarelli has already guaranteed that this team will be better (barring major injuries ofcourse). Seguin should compete for top-6 & PP time. Tuukka will push Timmy to be at his best, Caron, Arniel, Knight, Spooner will be keeping the vets on their toes.. & hopefully Dougie Hamilton will be impacting this roster in the next few yrs.

There are lots of reasons for optimism here in Boston, all without having to give up the farm to acquire Jarome Iginla. He would absolutely make our team better in the short term, but there's no reason for Chiarelli to make such a gamble when his best move is to just stay the course & do his best to keep his current roster intact.


Last edited by Oates2Neely: 08-29-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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Old
08-29-2011, 11:47 AM
  #81
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Sweet, this would be that extra step that it would take to make Boston a cup contender!

/sarcasm

No need to make such a trade.

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08-29-2011, 11:52 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
A- Yes, but this is an on-line hockey forum where posters discuss hypothetical trades. And Gretzky got traded, anything is possible.
I can't stand this, Gretzky got traded for money plain and simple. It was NOT a hockey move and has no relevance to any trade debates.

Seguin straight up for Iginla is interesting, but I don't think either team does this to be honest.

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08-29-2011, 11:53 AM
  #83
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Another thing to consider is that Selanne, at 40, with a messed up knee, is a better skater than Iginla is at 34. And Iginla plays a much more grinding style. That's a huge red flag towards him being able to maintain consistency into his 40s.

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08-29-2011, 12:12 PM
  #84
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Seguin is too high a price for Iginla who prolly has 3-5 good years left in him...Chiarelli is far too wise to make this trade.

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08-29-2011, 12:15 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Another thing to consider is that Selanne, at 40, with a messed up knee, is a better skater than Iginla is at 34. And Iginla plays a much more grinding style. That's a huge red flag towards him being able to maintain consistency into his 40s.
you obviously have not watched Iginla since the lock-out if you think that.

As a flames fan I would do this deal if we are bombing by the deadline. But BOS has no need to do this unless the struggle to make another cup run this year and Chia thinks Iggy could be that missing piece.

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08-29-2011, 12:22 PM
  #86
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I'd do it if I were Boston. Iginla could easily bring them back to the cup next year and thats what the NHL is about, winning the cup. Who knows how Seguin will turn out.

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08-29-2011, 12:30 PM
  #87
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no need for the Bruins to do this trade, but just a thought, what would we need to add to the trade to get Mike Giordano? if you guys really were to completely push the reset button maybe you would trade him as well

Seguin, our 1st, Corvo(because we would need to drop a d-man and he only has one year left on his contract) + Kampfer or another prospect? for Iginla and Giordano.

thoughts or comments?

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08-29-2011, 12:33 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by PJ StockBB View Post
no need for the Bruins to do this trade, but just a thought, what would we need to add to the trade to get Mike Giordano? if you guys really were to completely push the reset button maybe you would trade him as well

Seguin, our 1st, Corvo(because we would need to drop a d-man and he only has one year left on his contract) + Kampfer or another prospect? for Iginla and Giordano.

thoughts or comments?
No. I would want Gio to be our leader during the rebuild. Not interested in trading him at all if we tank by the deadline. He's becoming a leader on this team and may get an "A" this year.

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08-29-2011, 12:57 PM
  #89
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you obviously have not watched Iginla since the lock-out if you think that.

As a flames fan I would do this deal if we are bombing by the deadline. But BOS has no need to do this unless the struggle to make another cup run this year and Chia thinks Iggy could be that missing piece.
"Since the lockout" is a time frame of 6 years, so it's somewhat misleading. He has not been nearly the player in the last 2 years that he was in the first 4. I'm not even sure why Flames fans feel the need to debate this obsessively when it's all but a consensus when they're speaking amongst themselves (just a quick glance through GDTs will confirm that).

Iginla is still a great player, no ****. At the same time he HAS slowed down significantly, and now has about 20 games a year where he goes berserk and puts up most of his stats, 30 games a year where he almost seems like a liability and 30 games in between. You could even see that in the Olympics he had trouble keeping up aside from a couple red-hot games against weaker countries and the gold medal goal play. Going forward, if you still expect him to be a 30+ goal 70+ point player 3 years from now, I would take that bet unless he is being forcefed PP icetime.

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08-29-2011, 01:04 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Juicy Rebound View Post
Wow. This topic may go down but it never seems to die. Arguments about Iginla for Seguin/the 2010 2nd overall have been going on (it seems) since time immemorial.

First off, it's certainly an attractive thought for both teams... the Bruins, already a top contender for the next two cups, would immediately vault into the top 2-3 contenders right now (and I could certainly see an argument for the defending champs to be considered the top contender)... the Flames, mired in a swamp of mediocrity, would push the reset button with one of the most talented young forwards in the game, set themselves up for a top pick in 2012, and really go for the full organizational rebuild that they've been debating the past few seasons.

Unfortunately, the Bruins would be silly to do this.

Sacrificing the "might" of at least five more years of Seguin for the "should" of two seasons of Iginla might sound like a fair trade for a contender to make. But there's more than that to consider.

1. The Bruins have one of the youngest forward cores in the NHL. With continued solid defending (and reasonably fortunate re-signings) this team WILL be an annual contender for 5-10 years. One or more future Cups could very well be in the cards.

2. Depending on where you look, the odds the B's will win the 2012 Stanley Cup are between 8 and 12 percent. How much would Iginla add to their chances? 2-4%? Perhaps enough to vault them past the Canucks, Penguins and Caps on the early betting line - but enough to warrant sacrificing Seguin's bright future? I don't see it.

3. So many are presupposing Iginla's continued health and success, when neither is guaranteed. After 35, even annually healthy players like Iggy can experience quick and unpredictable setbacks ... to say nothing of the inevitable deterioration in skills and physical abilities that will happen in the next half decade for Calgary's captain. Selanne and Recchi are the exception, not the rule.



There's always the risk that your prospect won't pan out. There's a chance Segs could turn into the next David Legwand or Patrick Stefan. But, if you asked around the league, you'd probably be hard-pressed to find too many people who think - even after the mediocre rookie season he just had - that that's his fate. He's got the work ethic, skills and abilities to be an all-star forward for years to come. While Ignila's career has been an icon of success - 30g, 80-90p per season may well be in the cards.



Being hungry for winning doesn't mean you sacrifice the future for an uncertain present. Two years of Igninla, regardless of how good he is, don't make a team invulnerable. Injuries (something Boston - outside of Savard - avoided significantly in 2010-11) could derail the Bruins' season in one or both of those years - and then the B's would be left with no budding superstar and no more championships. It's by no means the absolute wrong thing to do, but it carries more than slight risk of completely blowing up.



I couldn't disagree more. While it's folly for anyone to suggest Calgary should accept an Iggy-for-Seggy deal on principle (Iginla's massive worth to the franchise/community is hard to put a value on) - Seguin played a significant role in the B's victory. Even discounting the fact that he won one game of the 7-game ECF essential by himself - his play through the latter half was as strong as it was unproductive.

Additionally, claiming that Seguin isn't good as Calgary's fourth-liners is an almost hilarious proposition. As it stands now, Seguin is likely to play on the Cup Champs' second or third line. He's not going to put up 11-11-22 totals again. Even conservative estimates see him touching 35-45 points in 11-12. If that's not good enough to play on the fourth line with the Flames - wow! They must have a Cup contender up there!
I'm talking about evidence of play so far in his career. We have 5 2nd-3rd line centermen right now. Last year Seguin would not have made our club. Last year Seguin was not as good as Jackman or Moss (granted for half the year Moss wasn't on the 4th line). So how is it laughable that he wasn't as good as our 4th liners? He quite simply wasn't. Iginla is an elite player, he's a career Flame and one of the only reasons an impending UFA would sign in Calgary. We absolutely need to keep him unless are tanking by the deadline. Trading him now for futures (Ie. Seguin) would be absolute stupidity. BTW, how to we know Seguin is going to put up 35-45 points? It's not an unreasonable estimate, but it's far from a lock.

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08-29-2011, 01:07 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Five years from now Iginla will be retiring & Seguin will be chasing MVP awards & more Cups. No deal.

IF Iginla were 5yrs younger I'd do it. Unfortunately he's only got a few yrs of productive hockey left before he really begins to tail off.
I agree with the bolded part. Disagree with the italicized part. 5 years from now Seguin may be a 1st line center. It's extremely unlikely that he'll be chasing MVP awards. He wasn't as good as either Skinner or Hall and neither of them are likely to be winning MVP awards in the next five years.

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08-29-2011, 01:08 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I'm talking about evidence of play so far in his career. We have 5 2nd-3rd line centermen right now. Last year Seguin would not have made our club. Last year Seguin was not as good as Jackman or Moss (granted for half the year Moss wasn't on the 4th line). So how is it laughable that he wasn't as good as our 4th liners? He quite simply wasn't. Iginla is an elite player, he's a career Flame and one of the only reasons an impending UFA would sign in Calgary. We absolutely need to keep him unless are tanking by the deadline. Trading him now for futures (Ie. Seguin) would be absolute stupidity. BTW, how to we know Seguin is going to put up 35-45 points? It's not an unreasonable estimate, but it's far from a lock.
I'm pretty sure given an opportunity here Seguin would have become our #1C, definitely making the team and putting Iggy over 50. I'll go as far to say if he played between Tanguay and Iggy he would have won the Calder and we'd end up with a playoff spot.

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08-29-2011, 01:16 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I'm talking about evidence of play so far in his career. We have 5 2nd-3rd line centermen right now. Last year Seguin would not have made our club. Last year Seguin was not as good as Jackman or Moss (granted for half the year Moss wasn't on the 4th line). So how is it laughable that he wasn't as good as our 4th liners? He quite simply wasn't. Iginla is an elite player, he's a career Flame and one of the only reasons an impending UFA would sign in Calgary. We absolutely need to keep him unless are tanking by the deadline. Trading him now for futures (Ie. Seguin) would be absolute stupidity. BTW, how to we know Seguin is going to put up 35-45 points? It's not an unreasonable estimate, but it's far from a lock.
Wait... Seguin wouldn't of made a non-playoff team's roster but he was able to make the Stanley Cup Champions roster?

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08-29-2011, 01:34 PM
  #94
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"Since the lockout" is a time frame of 6 years, so it's somewhat misleading. He has not been nearly the player in the last 2 years that he was in the first 4. I'm not even sure why Flames fans feel the need to debate this obsessively when it's all but a consensus when they're speaking amongst themselves (just a quick glance through GDTs will confirm that).

Iginla is still a great player, no siht. At the same time he HAS slowed down significantly, and now has about 20 games a year where he goes berserk and puts up most of his stats, 30 games a year where he almost seems like a liability and 30 games in between. You could even see that in the Olympics he had trouble keeping up aside from a couple red-hot games against weaker countries and the gold medal goal play. Going forward, if you still expect him to be a 30+ goal 70+ point player 3 years from now, I would take that bet unless he is being forcefed PP icetime.
Well, that went way over your head, didn't it.

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08-29-2011, 01:34 PM
  #95
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Why would Boston trade away a guy who will most likely put up the same numbers Iginla has for the last 15 years for the next 15. Very pathetic proposal imo.

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08-29-2011, 02:58 PM
  #96
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Iginal is a great player, but he is by FAR the most overvalued player on this site. There's a 0% chance that the Flames would get Seguin for Iginla, and the ones that say they wouldn't do that trade are kidding themselves.

Iginla is far from a guarantee for the Bruins to win another cup or even a few more cups in the next few years. The Bruins keeping Seguin keeps their window for winning open even longer than if they were to get Iginla. There's also no guarantee that Iginla would re-sign with Boston.

Just as there is great potential for Boston to win another cup next year if they got Iginla, there is just as much potential for them to win another cup in five years if they KEEP Seguin.

It just makes no sense for Boston to make this trade, especially when the cap is factored in.

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08-29-2011, 03:01 PM
  #97
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If Boston was desperate for a Cup maybe, but at it stands it makes no sense. At least if they had another up an coming C or took Strome, Zbinejad, or Couturier in June.

Igilna is a top player though even if in his early to mid 30s, so the value is there even if Seguin pans out. Think of the very SAME deal that brought him from Dallas to Calgary with Joe N. heading the other way.


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08-29-2011, 03:39 PM
  #98
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Iginal is a great player, but he is by FAR the most overvalued player on this site. There's a 0% chance that the Flames would get Seguin for Iginla, and the ones that say they wouldn't do that trade are kidding themselves.

Iginla is far from a guarantee for the Bruins to win another cup or even a few more cups in the next few years. The Bruins keeping Seguin keeps their window for winning open even longer than if they were to get Iginla. There's also no guarantee that Iginla would re-sign with Boston.

Just as there is great potential for Boston to win another cup next year if they got Iginla, there is just as much potential for them to win another cup in five years if they KEEP Seguin.

It just makes no sense for Boston to make this trade, especially when the cap is factored in.
As someone who's had to suffer through watching Iginla single handedly beat my team, no he's not overrated. I hate the guy with a passion, but when he's on, he's one of the best in the league. Seguin WILL NOT peak anywhere near Iginla. He's going to be a very special player, but saying your odds are as good with Seguin as Iginla is just ignorant.

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08-29-2011, 03:49 PM
  #99
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As someone who's had to suffer through watching Iginla single handedly beat my team, no he's not overrated. I hate the guy with a passion, but when he's on, he's one of the best in the league. Seguin WILL NOT peak anywhere near Iginla. He's going to be a very special player, but saying your odds are as good with Seguin as Iginla is just ignorant.
He wont' peak anywhere near him? Scouts that compare Seguin to Yzerman beg to differ.

Not saying he'll definitely reach it, but saying a number two overall pick isn't gonna peak "anywhere near him" when hes just 19 is just misinformed. He has all the tools to reach it, so talking matter of factly is just ignorant.

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08-29-2011, 04:07 PM
  #100
HoshiBlitz
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red mile.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
He wont' peak anywhere near him? Scouts that compare Seguin to Yzerman beg to differ.

Not saying he'll definitely reach it, but saying a number two overall pick isn't gonna peak "anywhere near him" when hes just 19 is just misinformed. He has all the tools to reach it, so talking matter of factly is just ignorant.
Seguin will be a great player but him and Iggy are different. I can se him putting up 25+G 50+A for multiple years but not score 30+ goals for over a decade.

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