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Trade proposal Montreal - Vancouver

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Old
08-13-2004, 03:57 PM
  #51
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NFiTO, you make some good points, I just don't really agree. But I've already said my thoughts. No reason to repeat myself.

I just want to say two things:

1) I think Zednik is getting way overrated here. The guy isn't all that much younger than Bert, and has a career high of 50 points. Bertuzzi, in an off-year, put up 60 points last year.

2) Yes, top-6 guys get dealt, but the examples you bring up (O'Neill, Sykora) are examples of poor teams trading top players, not a top-10 team like Vancouver. And Bertuzzi is way better than O'Neill anyways.

All in all, I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion, but I just disagree.

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Old
08-13-2004, 04:05 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan
NFiTO, you make some good points, I just don't really agree. But I've already said my thoughts. No reason to repeat myself.

I just want to say two things:

1) I think Zednik is getting way overrated here. The guy isn't all that much younger than Bert, and has a career high of 50 points. Bertuzzi, in an off-year, put up 60 points last year.

2) Yes, top-6 guys get dealt, but the examples you bring up (O'Neill, Sykora) are examples of poor teams trading top players, not a top-10 team like Vancouver. And Bertuzzi is way better than O'Neill anyways.

All in all, I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion, but I just disagree.
that's fine... we'll just agree to disagree

but will address your two points:

1) I agree... Zednik would be a good fit in our 2nd line, not a 1st line... that's why I kept saying that we'd use the extra $$ to sign a UFA or trade for a player... I'd have no interest in simply replacing Bertuzzi with Zednik even if we save almost $5mill in the transaction... I'd only do it, if we can also upgrade other positions (3rd line - Bulis; defense - Markov and prospect system - 1st round).

2) you misunderstood my post... I didn't say that we should deal Bertuzzi because top 6 guys get dealt... I was addressing your concerns whether such trades would even be available for us (in your previous response saying I'm being optimistic, or taking a chance assuming that top 6 wingers will be available for us to acquire).

so basically we agree here... chances are that there will be some poor/bad teams next season that dump a player - like the Sykora rumours around Anahiem - and the canucks, if they have the assets and $$ to acquire such a dump, could replace that "hole" in the lineup.

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Old
08-13-2004, 04:06 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
To Montreal: Bertuzzi

To Vancouver: Markov, Zednik, Bulis, 2005 first pick
Pass.

There is far too much uncertainty surrounding Bertuzzi at this point for me to even consider this. The Habs grossly overpay at this point...

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Old
08-13-2004, 04:08 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazzy-19
Zednik hasn't impressed me much yet. He's never scored over 50 points (Bertuzzi had 60 last season during a bad year while playing 12 games fewer than Zednik)
His last 2 season he had 50 points. Oh boy oh boy, there's a world of difference between over 50 points (51+) and 50

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Old
08-13-2004, 04:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by -CadillaC-
Just saying, with his skill he can be easily better then those players.
Y abut he can't replace them. The habs are gonna have a hell of hard time replacing them especialy Markov

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Old
08-13-2004, 05:09 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
His last 2 season he had 50 points. Oh boy oh boy, there's a world of difference between over 50 points (51+) and 50
What?

100000 points is over 50. I would say there's a world of a difference between over 50 and 50, yes. 50 isn't very much, really. It's okay for a second liner.

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08-13-2004, 05:38 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan
What?

100000 points is over 50. I would say there's a world of a difference between over 50 and 50, yes. 50 isn't very much, really. It's okay for a second liner.
50 is plenty for a first liner when about 30 of them are goals.

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Old
08-13-2004, 05:43 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Honestly, as a Canucks fan, I probably wouldn't do this deal because none of our holes are filled. The most attractive thing to me is the first round pick. We don't really need anymore 3rd liners (Chubarov, Linden, Cooke), Zednik only fills the second line RW job while creating a hole at first line RW, and Markov while good, isn't exactly what we need (Sopel, Jovo, Salo, and Ohlund can all provide offensive game from the d). The deal would make our top 6 forwareds extremely small (especially if Cooke moves up to fill Bert's role) and thus there's no way I would make it, even though I think the assets being offered are worth more or the same as Bertuzzi.
Oh please Now I've heard everything on these boards.

If the Nucks had this deal on the table, they would be all over it like a fat chick on a smartie and Gainey would be run out of town.

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Old
08-13-2004, 05:46 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Oh please Now I've heard everything on these boards.

If the Nucks had this deal on the table, they would be all over it like a fat chick on a smartie and Gainey would be run out of town.
Not really. Just because the value is good doesn't make it a good trade.

The trade proposal in this thread does not (by itself, assuming no additional moves,) make the Canucks a better team.

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08-13-2004, 07:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan
NFiTO, you make some good points, I just don't really agree. But I've already said my thoughts. No reason to repeat myself.

I just want to say two things:

1) I think Zednik is getting way overrated here. The guy isn't all that much younger than Bert, and has a career high of 50 points. Bertuzzi, in an off-year, put up 60 points last year.

2) Yes, top-6 guys get dealt, but the examples you bring up (O'Neill, Sykora) are examples of poor teams trading top players, not a top-10 team like Vancouver. And Bertuzzi is way better than O'Neill anyways.

All in all, I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion, but I just disagree.
The stats of Zednik does not show the impact he have on a game. This man score or make the play when the game is tied or your team need a goal. He is a real beauty to watch too, he hits hard but not as hard as Bertuzzi. Really , stats doesnt show what this player really does on the ice. I think he is a very good 2nd liner or an ok 1st liner.

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Old
08-13-2004, 07:40 PM
  #61
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When Bertuzzi is on, few can match him. People on this board tend to forget things that happened over 2 weeks ago. I would not do this deal.

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Old
08-13-2004, 10:33 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
Oh please Now I've heard everything on these boards.

If the Nucks had this deal on the table, they would be all over it like a fat chick on a smartie and Gainey would be run out of town.
Indeed.

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Old
08-13-2004, 10:42 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshad
The stats of Zednik does not show the impact he have on a game. This man score or make the play when the game is tied or your team need a goal. He is a real beauty to watch too, he hits hard but not as hard as Bertuzzi. Really , stats doesnt show what this player really does on the ice. I think he is a very good 2nd liner or an ok 1st liner.
I agree that stats don't reflect the talent of a player, but in the end it's all that matters. You could have all the talent of the world, but if you only score 5 goals in a season it means jack****. Unless he's extremely good defensively or something.

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Old
08-13-2004, 10:48 PM
  #64
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One thing i notice when i watch the canadiens is richard zednik. He has alot more grit then most people give him credit for.

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Old
08-14-2004, 03:19 AM
  #65
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Counter Proposal

Souray, Zednik, 1st pick 2005

for

Jovanoski

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Old
08-14-2004, 03:35 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTK
Counter Proposal

Souray, Zednik, 1st pick 2005

for

Jovanoski
hmm
if jovo wasnt so dominating when he is on, i would do it. souray is injury prone, zednik is a solid 30 goal man. its a fair deal, but i wouldnt do it from a canucks standpoint.

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08-14-2004, 03:49 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi21
I would not do this deal.
Of course you wouldn't do this deal. You are a classic example of a Canucks.com Free Willy fan. The only deals you would make are deals like Sopel + Chubarov for Luongo and Keane + Malik for Hossa.

The Habs get royally boned on this deal. If you take out Andrei Markov, I think it is a fair deal. With Markov, it is a farce it is so uneven.

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Old
08-14-2004, 04:51 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamer
The Habs get royally boned on this deal.
Yes they do.

I think Zednik has become very underrated on these boards and I don't really know why. What more could he do? He is an excellent first line winger in Montreal and he would be the same with Vancouver. Not only that Morrison wouldn't have to live under the shadow of Bertuzzi anymore!

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Old
08-14-2004, 06:12 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTK
Counter Proposal

Souray, Zednik, 1st pick 2005

for

Jovanoski
I would do this. Mostly because it doesn't create holes, and does plug one. Could we get a Markov for Sopel and a 4th thrown in on this?

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Old
08-14-2004, 06:15 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamer
Of course you wouldn't do this deal. You are a classic example of a Canucks.com Free Willy fan. The only deals you would make are deals like Sopel + Chubarov for Luongo and Keane + Malik for Hossa.

The Habs get royally boned on this deal. If you take out Andrei Markov, I think it is a fair deal. With Markov, it is a farce it is so uneven.
Read the responses though. Most people are saying Montreal are getting ripped off, they are just also saying Vancouver wouldn't do it because it doesn't make sense for them. Trades are only made based on value (instead of filling needs) in video games.

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Old
08-14-2004, 12:02 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Could we get a Markov for Sopel and a 4th thrown in on this?
I really hope you're not serious.

How about Rivet and a 4th for Ohlund?


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Old
08-14-2004, 12:09 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Read the responses though. Most people are saying Montreal are getting ripped off, they are just also saying Vancouver wouldn't do it because it doesn't make sense for them. Trades are only made based on value (instead of filling needs) in video games.
You do realize that if the Nucks were offered this deal which is extremely biased in their favour, they would simply call the other 28 GM's and just make three way trades in order to have their needs filled. You simply don't turn away a trade where you are completly fleecing the other team. For instance the Caps weren't really interested in dealing Oates a couple of years ago and were still in the playoff hunt, but when they got a chance to fleece Clark they took it, because despite not necessarily filling a need for them at the time, it was simply to good to pass up.

The Nucks would simply make additional deals that would ensure they were better.

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Old
08-14-2004, 12:14 PM
  #73
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Quite honestly I wouldn't trade Zednik for Bertuzzi straight up, let alone give up Bulis, Markov and the 1st. Bertuzzi makes almost 5mil more per year than Zednik. He's better than Zednik, but not 5mil better, and in addition, Zednik doesn't come with the type of baggage attached to Bertuzzi. I'd rather keep Zednik and have 5mil to spend on another top two line winger.

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Old
08-14-2004, 12:18 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamer
Of course you wouldn't do this deal. You are a classic example of a Canucks.com Free Willy fan. The only deals you would make are deals like Sopel + Chubarov for Luongo and Keane + Malik for Hossa.

The Habs get royally boned on this deal. If you take out Andrei Markov, I think it is a fair deal. With Markov, it is a farce it is so uneven.
I dont care, thats my opinion. I would not trade this deal. Our top six would become extremely small and non-gritty. Zednik and a 1st for bertuzzi? That is a joke.

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Old
08-14-2004, 12:27 PM
  #75
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The constant in this thread as well as others is to see how Markov is underrated on these boards. Markov has Norris potential, I've never said that about any other Habs Dman, but it is true for him. Yes, he's just that talented.

Last year, when everybody thought he would explode for 50+ points, we saw Markov have dificulty adjusting to the new defensive system under Claude Julien, as well as having to play in the shadow of a Dman enjoying what looks like a career year: Sheldon Souray.

On top of that, his father was dying of Cancer in Russia. Nothing to get you going, and this was a season where Markov was mostly the shadow of his former self. Even if he played at about half of his abilities most of the year, he still managed to get a 28pt season.

Markov might explode, just a year later than people expected. He looked good again at the end of the year and seems to be finally getting back to his 2003 shape (especially mentally). He's still only just 25yo and has some growing up left to do.

But the talent is there and for that reason, I think the original proposal is nothing short of ridiculous. Giving up a 1st rounder, Zednik, Bulis for Bertuzzi is fair value wise, but adding Markov to the mix is just plain silly. The Habs would be able to get much more than that for that package and even if it doesn't fill the holes for Vancouver, they would be insane to refuse it. They are getting way more quality assets in this deal than Montreal.

And even if MTL were ready to make such a blockbuster, why in the world would they go after Bertuzzi right now? Because his value is low maybe? Well here's one fat chance for Montreal right? I guess that means acquiring Bertuzzi when his value's high, based on the replies in this thread, would mean for the Habs to give up Koivu, Ryder, Zednik, Markov, Kostitsyn and Theodore.

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