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Wade Belak Passes Away (R.I.P)

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Old
09-01-2011, 02:40 PM
  #426
misterjaggers
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Originally Posted by JoeParez View Post

...There are many things that lead a person down the path of mental destruction; but it all stems from a feeling, thought or point of view that comes from within. If Wade Belak committed suicide, it's because he was struggling with something personal. It wasn't fighting, it wasn't body checking -- he was dealing with an inner demon. The same with Rick Rypien.

IMO -- there is no correlation between "the enforcer" and Belak/Rypien's deaths.
90% of the people who commit suicide are either depressed or have another clinical mental condition.

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09-01-2011, 02:44 PM
  #427
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Media outlets don't normally report suicides. You know how many people jump of the Don Valley bridges every year? Statistically, there is nothing to see here that speaks to a hockey specific problem, it's only because you don't hear about all the other people who kill themselves on a daily basis. People are troubled, people kill themselves, this hockey conversation is utterly useless in my mind, it's a larger question.
Just because people kill themselves for different reasons, doesn't mean there is NO POSSIBILITY that his death could have had something to do with his hockey career. Of course it's not a definite relationship, and there are innumberable things in a man's life that could have an effect on his mental well-being. No one can really confirm or deny whether taking multiple beatings to the head, and possibly being on pain medications contributed to his mental health or lack thereof.

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09-01-2011, 02:45 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
90% of the people who commit suicide are either depressed or have another clinical mental condition.
Source and Citation please.

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09-01-2011, 02:46 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
90% of the people who commit suicide are either depressed or have another clinical mental condition.
Exactly. Depression is a medical condition as is anxiety and post-traumatic stress (which I deal with).

I'm saying that Wade Belak would've committed suicide because of a depression that he's suffering within himself; not from fighting. That's the way I see it.

You mentioned CTE and you also sound as if you know more than I do; but I'm merely saying that you don't get punched in the head and bingo, you're depressed. From my experience depression comes from long term effects of mental and/or emotional anguish.

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09-01-2011, 02:47 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by JoeParez View Post
Exactly. Depression is a medical condition as is anxiety and post-traumatic stress (which I deal with).

I'm saying that Wade Belak would've committed suicide because of a depression that he's suffering within himself; not from fighting. That's the way I see it.

You mentioned CTE and you also sound as if you know more than I do; but I'm merely saying that you don't get punched in the head and bingo, you're depressed. From my experience depression comes from long term effects of mental and/or emotional anguish.
Of course. Based on your experience could the use of pain medication contribute or exacerbate one's depression?

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09-01-2011, 02:48 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by MaximAmirian View Post
Source and Citation please.
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guid...gns-of-suicide

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09-01-2011, 02:51 PM
  #432
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sad truth really.

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09-01-2011, 02:54 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
My mistake! I read your post as "90% of deaths are by suicide".

I think I need some sleep...


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09-01-2011, 02:59 PM
  #434
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Belak's Dad didn't see this coming either:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...e-that-option/

Tough read, although I don't get the feeling that him and his father were super tight either. Kept contact, but yeah....

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09-01-2011, 03:01 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by JoeParez View Post
Exactly. Depression is a medical condition as is anxiety and post-traumatic stress (which I deal with).

I'm saying that Wade Belak would've committed suicide because of a depression that he's suffering within himself; not from fighting. That's the way I see it.

You mentioned CTE and you also sound as if you know more than I do; but I'm merely saying that you don't get punched in the head and bingo, you're depressed. From my experience depression comes from long term effects of mental and/or emotional anguish.
As I said in my (overly long) post, no one is saying that their careers CAUSED their depression

What we're saying is that players that have these pre-existing mental illnesses are highly at risk when faced the harsh realities of an NHL career, such as concussions and painkillers -- more so than other players. The enforcer job is especially prone to these added risk-factors (drug addiction, feeling irrelevant, etc.)

And we have to ask ourselves if these risks are worth what is essentially a sideshow in hockey

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09-01-2011, 03:06 PM
  #436
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RIP Belak

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09-01-2011, 03:07 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeParez View Post
You mentioned CTE and you also sound as if you know more than I do; but I'm merely saying that you don't get punched in the head and bingo, you're depressed. From my experience depression comes from long term effects of mental and/or emotional anguish.
I'm one who suggest that it is worth looking into whether fighting was a factor in his death. But it's not a matter of getting punched in the head and bingo. As I alluded to earlier in this thread, it's the toll over time it takes on the brain. Whose to say it doesn't trigger something after all those blows? Also, I think the mental and/or emotional anguish of having a job where you are expected to beat your opponent as much as you can could cause a lot of stress on someone. Some are just not immune to such distress.

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09-01-2011, 03:10 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by LeafsTFC View Post
Of course. Based on your experience could the use of pain medication contribute or exacerbate one's depression?
Definitely, especially when it becomes an addiction to said pain-killers.

I also do not endorse medication to treat depression; therapy, meditations and using your means of support is the way to go.

Quote:
What we're saying is that players that have these pre-existing mental illnesses are highly at risk when faced the harsh realities of an NHL career, such as concussions and painkillers -- more so than other players. The enforcer job is especially prone to these added risk-factors (drug addiction, feeling irrelevant, etc.)
Then the job of the NHL is not to outlaw the enforcer or ban fighting, they should make sure that their players are in a healthy state of mind. Psychological testing prior, during and after a season should be implemented and maybe they should have players go to therapy once a month on an off day.

But the "macho-ness" of the NHL and sport in general usually leads to these men avoiding sharing how they feel in fear of looking "weak". No way, it takes a strong man to truthfully explain how he feels.

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09-01-2011, 03:13 PM
  #439
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The NHL doesn't need to eliminate fighting. They need to somehow stop all the enforcers and heavy weights from fighting each other.. Like when Orr and Boogard etc would just fight for the sake of entertaining the crowd.

I think the NHL needs to someone eliminate pure fighters from the game.. Like suspending players for seasons if they get to many fighting majors? I don't have a problem with a problem between two players were they fight but having players paid just to fight each other is too risky.

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09-01-2011, 03:13 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by JoeParez View Post
Then the job of the NHL is not to outlaw the enforcer or ban fighting, they should make sure that their players are in a healthy state of mind. Psychological testing prior, during and after a season should be implemented and maybe they should have players go to therapy once a month on an off day.
Fair enough, then the question becomes: Is it worth it to expend all that effort (which is of course necessary if there is to be fighting in the game) to protect an ancillary portion of the game?

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09-01-2011, 03:14 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by JoeParez View Post
Exactly. Depression is a medical condition as is anxiety and post-traumatic stress (which I deal with).

I'm saying that Wade Belak would've committed suicide because of a depression that he's suffering within himself; not from fighting. That's the way I see it.

You mentioned CTE and you also sound as if you know more than I do; but I'm merely saying that you don't get punched in the head and bingo, you're depressed. From my experience depression comes from long term effects of mental and/or emotional anguish.
Depression is a symptom of post concussion syndrome. It's also a symptom of CTE and dementia in general. That's my understanding. Google it and check for yourself.

CTE has been definitively connected to professional boxing. That's my understanding. And we know that Bob Probert and Reggie Fleming developed CTE.

"How much is the hockey and how much is the fighting, we don’t really know,” said Dr. Robert Cantu, co-director of the Boston University Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy and a prominent neurosurgeon in the area of head trauma in sports. “We haven’t definitely established that the skills of hockey as a sport lead to a certain percentage of participants developing C.T.E. But it can happen to hockey players, and while they’re still relatively young."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/sp...pagewanted=all


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09-01-2011, 03:17 PM
  #442
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I think the NHL needs to someone eliminate pure fighters from the game.. Like suspending players for seasons if they get to many fighting majors? I don't have a problem with a problem between two players were they fight but having players paid just to fight each other is too risky.
I agree with this. However, if two non-fighters decide to fight each other (Beauchemin and Kovalev went at it last year I think) do you just let them fight it out or do you actively try to break it up? IMO it's a bit of a double standard to let them fight and then say "ok you've fought too often, suspension time now". Either gotta have zero tolerance on it, or allow it to continue

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09-01-2011, 03:23 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by LeafsTFC View Post
Fair enough, then the question becomes: Is it worth it to expend all that effort (which is of course necessary if there is to be fighting in the game) to protect an ancillary portion of the game?
Yes and no. If it means to protect fighting only, then you're correct. However, in this day and age, everyone is under some form of stress and maybe the NHL should implement a sort of therapy to protect all it's players.

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09-01-2011, 03:26 PM
  #444
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I had to wait a day before posting because like everyone else it was shocking and disturbing news to say the least. Even now as I type my message tears want to shower my keyboard. Belak was a fan and also a favourite of mine when he was with Toronto and after. I still can not believe this has happened, it's disheartening that someone would do this to themselves and to leave behind so many questions for their loved ones.

RIP Wade and my thoughts go out to your family.

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09-01-2011, 03:27 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by LeafsTFC View Post
Fair enough, then the question becomes: Is it worth it to expend all that effort (which is of course necessary if there is to be fighting in the game) to protect an ancillary portion of the game?
this

the risks aren't worth what is essentially a sideshow


plus, the league can't pretend that it's taking the issue of head-hits and concussions seriously and still allow guys to punch each other in the face. It's optics if nothing else. Although I don't buy the argument that fighting doesn't cause concussions, because you know what? Enforcers don't go to the "quiet room" after a fight, they go to the penalty box. And admitting you have a concussion is a good way to lose your job.

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09-01-2011, 03:47 PM
  #446
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Just because other people are under some form of stress doesn't mean you shouldn't think of eliminating unnecessary evils in the game (e.g. headshots, guys punching each other in the head). Maybe other forms of stress are unavoidable. Sure maybe some other hockey players get depressed, perhaps from losing the Cup final. Do you then eliminate the Cup final? Of course not, because it is an integral part of the game and the benefits of the playoffs outweigh these disadvantages. However, I don't see how the benefits of hockey fights outweigh possible head injuries enforcers receive. Then again, I'm not a fan of boxing/MMA

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09-01-2011, 03:55 PM
  #447
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Was gonna write a long reply to a bunch of 'ban fighting' posts, Mark Spector beat me to it...


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...spector_belak/

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09-01-2011, 05:36 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Cmillz View Post
Was gonna write a long reply to a bunch of 'ban fighting' posts, Mark Spector beat me to it...


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...spector_belak/
The stress of what guys like Belak did for a living and it's toll is completely different from the fighting issue. This guy assumes that no one can tell the difference.

Of course if you ask those guys they are going to want to be highly paid enforcers instead of going to work for their dad.

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09-01-2011, 05:46 PM
  #449
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Mods, please sticky this thread.

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09-01-2011, 06:31 PM
  #450
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I am not posting this to have a debate on it, from my experience this how I view it. Depression is a lot like being Bi polar, you can be the happiest person to everyone but the saddest person to yourself. It can happen out of no where and at anytime. It has nothing to with your job, only your personal views on your life. Some of the funniest comedians are Bi polar and some of the toughest men/woman in the world are depressed. It is something you deal with everyday and are constantly trying to imagine you don't have. Depression takes you to a VERY dark place, when people ask you what is wrong, you have no answer. It takes your will and motivation to do anything, you feel alone no mater how close to friends and family you are. It is you against the world and the mountain can seem unclimbable at times, it is crippling. It takes an extremely strong mind to pull you through the dark times and get back to "normal" whatever normal maybe. The one's who have never gone through, will never understand. The only thing that I could give you as an example would be, Imagine everything you hold dear, family, friends, husbands, wives, children were all ripped away from you, but in your mind you know they are right in front of you but you can't have them. That most likely will not make sense to most, but is the closest I can get. It is something no one should ever have to go through and would not wish on my worst enemy. So to those in this thread saying, it is a connection to this or a reason because of this, stop. You have no idea, it has nothing to do with, job, family, friends, it is something that can happen to very young children to very old adults. When your brain says you have nothing to live for what would you do ? It is something people dealing with depression deal with everyday.

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