Everest, I appreciate you taking the stand you are on this and not an easy one to take in the circumstance.
What kind of response do you think your comments would get in the USA if they were on the front page of a paper describing hockey?
Is this what you think Bettman envisions he wants the game to be percieved as stateside?
I don't question your take on hockey as much as your take on who's running the NHL show and where the directives will come from and they will.
This fight game as we know it is going to be impacted or even shutdown. If not collectively by the NHL or NHLPA individual jurisdictions/and or States might start taking a look at it legally. Once that starts to happen the **** hits the fan quick.
fighting as we know it will not be the same due to knee jerk reactions by the NHL and public outcry from supposed hockey "fans". They need to investigate causes of all three and decided if there is a direct link to the "enforcer" game that caused or contributed to their deaths. I dont think that will be the case but do think the nhl should do their due diligence to before making any rash decisions like abolishing fighting from the game. As others have mentioned, the NHL should definitely look at providing help in making smoother transitions to retirement for ex-nhl'ers.
Everest, I appreciate you taking the stand you are on this and not an easy one to take in the circumstance.
What kind of response do you think your comments would get in the USA if they were on the front page of a paper describing hockey?
Is this what you think Bettman envisions he wants the game to be percieved as stateside?
I don't question your take on hockey as much as your take on who's running the NHL show and where the directives will come from and they will.
This fight game as we know it is going to be impacted or even shutdown. If not collectively by the NHL or NHLPA individual jurisdictions/and or States might start taking a look at it legally. Once that starts to happen the **** hits the fan quick.
I don't think Bettman has very much control over the perception of the game or its brotherhood of players.
In this day & age...with so much freelance media and real time exposure being cast on every single player/person...thats the #1 determining factor in how the product is promoted...therefore....it goes back to what I said before...embrace it for the human element....because thats all it is... and thats all a hockey player is... when all is said and done.
I hope the NHLPA looks at this and starts an outreach program for players that retire/have substance issues/etc. and have former players that went through the same battles help them in a support program. Who better to understand the ins and outs than a fellow/former colleague? Some people will obviously be "too proud" to take help which is always the worst possible scenario, but I would hope that some of the tragedies that have transpired this offseason could have been averted. Here we see a guy that seemed like such a happy go lucky guy leaving behind two children and a wife, it's very heart breaking to see something like this happen.
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
God have mercy on his soul. This post just floors me.
I mean it's some sort of disease, etc. You always wonder what goes on in somebodys head when the end result to them is something like this. I've known somebody who killed themselves who were close to me.
Do you honestly believe the 'type of player' they were has anything to do with these tragic losses of life?
Because it doesn't.
Actually... and apologies if I've missed 6 pages of debate, but scientifically....
there is a building body of evidence that the "type of player" does matter. There is evidence that increased numbers of concussions, including low grade ones, increases the prevalence of depression.... so do certain performance enhancing drugs.
I think that is enough of a lead to be chased down...
when 2 people kill themselves every 45 seconds in the world its amazing that it takes a few hockey players deaths to open eyes. the problem is it gets pushed under the carpet in a few weeks.... ie luke richardsons daughter, big news, they tried to bring awareness after but havent seen anything since.
Actually... and apologies if I've missed 6 pages of debate, but scientifically....
there is a building body of evidence that the "type of player" does matter. There is evidence that increased numbers of concussions, including low grade ones, increases the prevalence of depression.... so do certain performance enhancing drugs.
I think that is enough of a lead to be chased down...
Fair enough.
I just want to be clear...Im not against doing MORE to take care of the NHL enforcers. I just feel there are also serious things which need to be kept in mind with ALL players/people.
But we know of many, many players who played other roles inside the game who dealt with the same demons.
Sure there are other players that have had problems, lots of people have problems in their lives and dealing with the end of a career that you loved doing is tough. It's the number and severity of enforcers dealing with issues that is the problem here. This many so quickly is looking to be more than just a statistical anomaly but a trend. It's really getting harder and harder to see why goons are accepted in hockey when they have little to no bearing on the game outside the small chance that they will be fighting another guy who doesnt know how to play hockey.
Sure there are other players that have had problems, lots of people have problems in their lives and dealing with the end of a career that you loved doing is tough. It's the number and severity of enforcers dealing with issues that is the problem here. This many so quickly is looking to be more than just a statistical anomaly but a trend. It's really getting harder and harder to see why goons are accepted in hockey when they have little to no bearing on the game outside the small chance that they will be fighting another guy who doesnt know how to play hockey.
Aside from a goal or maybe a spectacular save, nothing gets the crowd more riled up than a fight or a big hit... There's a reason these players are fighting for their careers so to speak and it has everything to do with the people that pay to watch hockey. Half a million in salary a year to have a neon applause sign skating around the ice for 5 minutes a night is pretty cheap.
It's too easy to dehumanize the players just because watching them is such a spectacle.
Sure there are other players that have had problems, lots of people have problems in their lives and dealing with the end of a career that you loved doing is tough. It's the number and severity of enforcers dealing with issues that is the problem here. This many so quickly is looking to be more than just a statistical anomaly but a trend. It's really getting harder and harder to see why goons are accepted in hockey when they have little to no bearing on the game outside the small chance that they will be fighting another guy who doesnt know how to play hockey.
I agree, it can be a sensitive topic for a lot of people, a lot of Don Cherry types that think there is a need for fighting. 2 things come to mind here.
1. you are right, this seems to be a trend, This isn't a anomaly, there is a collection of factors that seem to equate to being a NHL enforcer equals a vulnerable life style. To be more specific, a potential miserable life.
2. All the other sports in the world (aside of course from boxing and UFC, which just goes with out saying) don't have active fighting like hockey. Does Hockey really need fighting? I think the NHL will answer No and I think it is the right answer.
I don't know about that, I think they will see that fighting has a place in the game but just not in it's current form.
It was a gradual change but the fighting that we see today does not represent fighting's roots in the game of hockey.
I agree, I mean I think fighting has a place in every sport, and it pretty much exists in every sport (aside from maybe golf, pool and bowling???) just not in the premeditated systematic fashion it exists in hockey. When most enforcers have spoken (laraque the most recent example) they talk about the pressure of knowing you will have to fight, that it is your job. In other sports no one has this job, a fight might break out but it isn't premeditated. I think that is key here, I think the NHL will want to end that, but ya, Fighting will always exist in hockey.
Associated Press has confirmed that Wade Belak hanged himself in Toronto.
you always wonder what goes on in somebodys head when they do this and have a family. It's too bad.
wow. This is simply horrible. shocking! God bless these 3 fallen men, Rypien, Boogard and Belak. But Belak though... thought everything was alright with this guy?! had a career in broadcasting lined up for himself after retirement, great personality, a gentle giant off the ice who had a wonderful sense of humour. What in the **** is going on here...
I don't know about that, I think they will see that fighting has a place in the game but just not in it's current form.
It was a gradual change but the fighting that we see today does not represent fighting's roots in the game of hockey.
Absolutely. There are fights in baseball of all sports but they dont carry guys on their rosters just in case a brawl breaks out. Players fight if the other team pisses them off, that's fine sort it out take your time in the box and get back in the game, but the guys who play 40 seconds a game just in case that's wrong.
No doubt it's entertaining and fans get into it, who here didnt love Macintyre taking down Ivanans but really it's not hockey. Let's be honest and schedule some MMA or boxing or heck turn it into ice fighting and see if you get enough fans out to support it.
I agree, it can be a sensitive topic for a lot of people, a lot of Don Cherry types that think there is a need for fighting. 2 things come to mind here.
1. you are right, this seems to be a trend, This isn't a anomaly, there is a collection of factors that seem to equate to being a NHL enforcer equals a vulnerable life style. To be more specific, a potential miserable life.
2. All the other sports in the world (aside of course from boxing and UFC, which just goes with out saying) don't have active fighting like hockey. Does Hockey really need fighting? I think the NHL will answer No and I think it is the right answer.
I am a 'Don Cherry Type'. ANd I do NOT see any justification for the enforcers role in hockey.
I agree with you...we should be able to still have 'fighting'. But we do not need to have custom built enforcers, playing one shift per game, going out on a seek & destroy/get destroyed death march.
But....alas...just this off-season the Oilers have spent millions to sign not one...not two...but three guys whose identities as pro players are predicated upon predatorial play/fighting & enforcement.
And the majority of Oil Country was head over heels with the moves!
Why? I still strongly disagree that these 2011-12 Oilers are a 'tougher team'. For my money...Gagner, Gilbert, Paajarvi and surely Hemsky...are still the types of players vulnerble to physicality/intimidation. Surronding them with beef doesn't change the fact they're chickens.
In Utopia...we would see ALL teams RESIST the temptation to sign 'beef' whose primary focus is to bully/run-around/stalk/cheap-shot et al. And instead...invest more time & effort into developing the mental/physical toughness & character of the SKILL guys, instead.
What does it take to get to Utopia from whereever it is we're at right now?
Common sense & respect. Thats it.
And don't get me wrong...Im not implying this thesis is the cure all for concussions/depression/ tragedy away from the rink. I have no idea if this would help mitigate these tragic outcomes. But I know damn well it can't hurt to try.
