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Old
09-17-2011, 02:38 PM
  #51
CapitalsCupFantasy
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I think the expectations for Sjogren are a little high. He needs to make the roster first.

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09-17-2011, 02:51 PM
  #52
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Enjoying the Tarik coverage.
Agreed. Also much less likely to accidentaly post about how he thinks a Cap is hitting on him. Not in the trashy way, in the classy way.


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09-17-2011, 03:31 PM
  #53
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Ha! Point.

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09-17-2011, 04:30 PM
  #54
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I see hammer is already vacationing in club BB!

Jk. Smart not to push it.

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09-17-2011, 05:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
from all indications mcneill had earned a shot and lost it to shoulder surgery. his game seems to have fully recovered. whats your beef with him as the 7d if erskine is out?
he'll need a reliable pairing to clean up after him.

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09-17-2011, 05:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
I think the expectations for Sjogren are a little high. He needs to make the roster first.
i think you have to accept that mcphee puts a roster together with a basic idea of what is going happen. its not a crap shoot and roll with the winners.

my read is that he signed sjogren to play. if he doesnt make the roster, it will be a failure. you can see the players involved point in that direction. he didnt bring in ward and brouwer and halpern to play perreault as the 3rd center.

yes, sjogren needs to make the roster. but the caps in my view have planned and projected that he will. with that in mind i write this analysis.l

if it was about who had the best camp, eakin would have been on the roster last season instead of johansson and bourque instead of fehr the season before.

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09-17-2011, 05:27 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
from all indications mcneill had earned a shot and lost it to shoulder surgery. his game seems to have fully recovered. whats your beef with him as the 7d if erskine is out?
by all indications, the next best Dman (other than the main roster) is Orlov. sucks for mcneil but you gotta make moves that make the club better.

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09-17-2011, 05:35 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i think you have to accept that mcphee puts a roster together with a basic idea of what is going happen. its not a crap shoot and roll with the winners.

my read is that he signed sjogren to play. if he doesnt make the roster, it will be a failure. you can see the players involved point in that direction. he didnt bring in ward and brouwer and halpern to play perreault as the 3rd center.

yes, sjogren needs to make the roster. but the caps in my view have planned and projected that he will. with that in mind i write this analysis.l

if it was about who had the best camp, eakin would have been on the roster last season instead of johansson and bourque instead of fehr the season before.
Then why bother with training camp at all? You're suggesting theres no competition with your 1st paragraph. Until he proves himself against the big boys, not the rookies, nothing is certain. Of course they project him to make the roster. They wouldn't have signed him to that deal if they didn't. Seems like some of you have overinflated expectations for a guy who has never sniffed an NHL game.


Your last sentence is absurd. You're saying Mojo didn't earn a roster spot last camp? I think his play easily refutes that statement. Eakin was close, but ultimately not ready. AND the Caps could take their time with his develpment and in doing so better manage their contracts, salary cap and young player development.

Bourque instead of Fehr? Really? You've lost it my friend.


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 09-17-2011 at 05:41 PM.
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09-17-2011, 05:54 PM
  #59
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Barring injury, I don't see how the centers wont be Backstrom-Johansson-Laich-Halpern.

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09-17-2011, 05:55 PM
  #60
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its an upgrade over sloan. yea, orlov is better, but orlov is waiver excempt and they want him to play every game.
mcneill is not waiver excempt and would be the extra defenseman getting scratched most of the time.

roster spots dont always go to the best player on the depth chart.


Last edited by txpd: 09-17-2011 at 06:02 PM.
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Old
09-17-2011, 05:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Barring injury, I don't see how the centers wont be Backstrom-Johansson-Laich-Halpern.
i think that is the most likely scenario. also.

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Old
09-17-2011, 06:00 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Then why bother with training camp at all? You're suggesting theres no competition with your 1st paragraph. Until he proves himself against the big boys, not the rookies, nothing is certain. Of course they project him to make the roster. They wouldn't have signed him to that deal if they didn't. Seems like some of you have overinflated expectations for a guy who has never sniffed an NHL game.


Your last sentence is absurd. You're saying Mojo didn't earn a roster spot last camp? I think his play easily refutes that statement. Eakin was close, but ultimately not ready. AND the Caps could take their time with his develpment and in doing so better manage their contracts, salary cap and young player development.

Bourque instead of Fehr? Really? You've lost it my friend.
training camp is first and foremost for training the team.
last season eakin was better than johansson in camp. johansson was still trying to wrap his head around the NA game and an NHL camp while it was eakin's 2nd camp.
but johansson was signed to play and eakin could only play in the nhl or junior.

season before that bourque was arguably the best in camp and fehr was awful. maybe it was the season before that. there will be someone here to back me up.
bourque was waiver excempt and fehr was not. fehr was kept and bourque was sent out.

same with alzner who was sent to hershey while mcphee kept sloan. you think that was because sloan had a better camp than alzner?

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Old
09-17-2011, 06:41 PM
  #63
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Did Orlov make massive gains over the offseason? I was under the impression he was good but still had a bit to learn about the NA brand of hockey?

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09-17-2011, 06:55 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LetsGoBears View Post
Did Orlov make massive gains over the offseason? I was under the impression he was good but still had a bit to learn about the NA brand of hockey?
he showed that he is competent enough at the NA game last year, and in the rookie game this week. he's always been plenty big. his skills and physical presence alone make him the best option at third-pair/7th D. if they can find regular ice time for him, they should be giving him a shot.

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09-17-2011, 06:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
he showed that he is competent enough at the NA game last year, and in the rookie game this week. he's always been plenty big. his skills and physical presence alone make him the best option at third-pair/7th D. if they can find regular ice time for him, they should be giving him a shot.
His D-coverage showed the need for more seasoning last season, and the rookie game means about as much as summer development camp in terms of judging his NHL ability (i.e. zilch).

If he can play that way during the preseason then he'll go a long way towards becoming a regular/semi-regular NHLer this season.

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09-17-2011, 07:07 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
His D-coverage showed the need for more seasoning last season, and the rookie game means about as much as summer development camp in terms of judging his NHL ability (i.e. zilch).

If he can play that way during the preseason then he'll go a long way towards becoming a regular/semi-regular NHLer this season.
i disagree. he is an aggressive, pinching defenseman with a good shot. in the defensive zone, he hits. obviously his coverage is worse than that of a shutdown guy, but that's not where his value comes from.

the rookie game certainly means more. first of all, it's closer to the season, playing against more skilled and better prepared competition than in summer camp. he went up against first line players who are a lock to play nhl games this year, and looked like the most nhl-ready player on both teams. yeah, it's only one game, but promotions to the big leagues based on way less than what orlov showed happen all the time.

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09-17-2011, 07:09 PM
  #67
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The notion that CB has EVER been the best player in camp is laughable. AND it turned out to be the right decision to keep Fehr. He's at least a legit NHL player. CB...not so much.

Eakin may have been marginally better. You're splitting hairs there IMO. If it was a clear as you're suggesting he would have stuck.

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09-17-2011, 07:11 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by LetsGoBears View Post
Did Orlov make massive gains over the offseason? I was under the impression he was good but still had a bit to learn about the NA brand of hockey?
So far he looks NHL ready if not poised for a stellar rookie year and would probably make it were the team in rebuild mode. Absolutely clinical against the other rookies and he's doing it while barely breaking a sweat. I'd love to see him be paired with Carlson (seem like natural compliments) at least for some stretch this year, but he's not gonna beat out Schultz or Erskine as a regular the way the team is built. Perhaps if Erskine gets time off to recover from surgery he'll see some time early this year.

Though to be fair I was adamant to the point of obsession that he was a mid first round talent and that they should draft him during the draft 2 years ago so I may be slightly biased.

A year in Hershey should do him a ton of good.

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09-17-2011, 07:21 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
i disagree. he is an aggressive, pinching defenseman with a good shot. in the defensive zone, he hits. obviously his coverage is worse than that of a shutdown guy, but that's not where his value comes from.

the rookie game certainly means more. first of all, it's closer to the season, playing against more skilled and better prepared competition than in summer camp. he went up against first line players who are a lock to play nhl games this year, and looked like the most nhl-ready player on both teams. yeah, it's only one game, but promotions to the big leagues based on way less than what orlov showed happen all the time.
French himself said it, the issues with Orlov were clear in that he wasn't used to their style of coverage. He's physically where he needs to be, but mentally it's going to be an adjustment.

And the rookie game is still pretty sparse competition. Ok, Schenn and Couturier are no slouches, but they're not real NHLers yet either. The speed of the game still isn't there to really test him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
The notion that CB has EVER been the best player in camp is laughable. AND it turned out to be the right decision to keep Fehr. He's at least a legit NHL player. CB...not so much.

Eakin may have been marginally better. You're splitting hairs there IMO. If it was a clear as you're suggesting he would have stuck.
Isn't that tx's point? Bourque was unquestionably better in camp/preseason than Fehr that year (I remember it as well, but I can't remember the year) but the coaching staff (rightly) considered other factors and kept Fehr regardless. I don't know that Sjogren vs. the field is necessarily as clear cut as Fehr vs. Bourque in terms of importance, but the fact remains that there's more to the decision than training camp.

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09-17-2011, 08:06 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
So far he looks NHL ready if not poised for a stellar rookie year and would probably make it were the team in rebuild mode. Absolutely clinical against the other rookies and he's doing it while barely breaking a sweat. I'd love to see him be paired with Carlson (seem like natural compliments) at least for some stretch this year, but he's not gonna beat out Schultz or Erskine as a regular the way the team is built. Perhaps if Erskine gets time off to recover from surgery he'll see some time early this year.

Though to be fair I was adamant to the point of obsession that he was a mid first round talent and that they should draft him during the draft 2 years ago so I may be slightly biased.

A year in Hershey should do him a ton of good.
In what ways are the games of Orlov and Carlson complementary to each other...? If anything they are fairly similar players. Which one of them would move over to the left side in that pairing anyway? Your idea makes no sense.

Anyway I'm pretty confident he will find his way into at least a few games this season, through both his own play in Hershey and the need to replace injured defensemen.

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09-17-2011, 08:09 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
French himself said it, the issues with Orlov were clear in that he wasn't used to their style of coverage. He's physically where he needs to be, but mentally it's going to be an adjustment.

And the rookie game is still pretty sparse competition. Ok, Schenn and Couturier are no slouches, but they're not real NHLers yet either. The speed of the game still isn't there to really test him.



Isn't that tx's point? Bourque was unquestionably better in camp/preseason than Fehr that year (I remember it as well, but I can't remember the year) but the coaching staff (rightly) considered other factors and kept Fehr regardless. I don't know that Sjogren vs. the field is necessarily as clear cut as Fehr vs. Bourque in terms of importance, but the fact remains that there's more to the decision than training camp.
Is it his point? That because he has a contract he's a lock to make the roster? If so...that's wrong.

Fehr was already the established player back then. You can second guess the coaching staff all you want but they clearly made the right choice. One is a legit NHLer...the other...isn't. They kept the better player, just like they did with Mojo last year.


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09-17-2011, 08:13 PM
  #72
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In what ways are the games of Orlov and Carlson complementary to each other...? If anything they are fairly similar players. Which one of them would move over to the left side in that pairing anyway? Your idea makes no sense.

Anyway I'm pretty confident he will find his way into at least a few games this season, through both his own play in Hershey and the need to replace injured defensemen.
The one who shoots left handed, perhaps? Why would you even consider moving Carlson to his off hand to move Orlov to his off hand? Talk about robbing Peter to punch Paul in the groin.

Carlson has more of a stay at home component to his game than Green or Wideman. Orlov is an OFD but he's no slouch defensively. You'd have a pairing of two-way defensemen each of whom can hit, skate, move the puck, hammer in point shots, and defend better than the average puckmover (maybe not this year with Orlov but the potential is noticeably there). A poor to hopefully middle class man's Suter-Weber one day.


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09-17-2011, 08:18 PM
  #73
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actually, fehr was not an established player that year. it was his first season out of his elc. his first season where waivers were required to send him down. bourque was the team's leading 3rd scorer in preseason(6games 3 goals 3assists) that year for his part. looking back over the records it was 08-09.

the next season was when bourque got claimed on waivers. as of the 08 camp fehr had exactly 37 nhl games and 3 goals. this is why having a much better camp was a question mark. bourque was sent back to hershey because he could be. fehr was kept as a scratch

as for orlov being the best choice for 3rd pair or 7th d. i'd say that flat false.
he is a puck moving defenseman. the caps pair a puck mover with a stay at home. the 3rd pair puck mover at present appears to be dennis wideman. orlov is not as good as wideman. he cant carry his equipment bag.

as for the 7th d. that player by its definition is the extra player that doesnt play with a healthy lineup. as a rookie pro on the first year of an ecl he would never be the best choice for that spot on an nhl roster. ever


Last edited by txpd: 09-17-2011 at 08:36 PM.
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Old
09-17-2011, 08:47 PM
  #74
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He was also a 1st rounder....you do the math. Bourque was always a fringe NHLer at best. Turns out it was the right decision. If you say it's based on the fact that Fehr wasn't waiver exempt, I guess you believe MP85 is a lock to make the roster too.


My point in this was that Sjogren must earn his spot IN CAMP. IMO if he has a poor camp, he's going down. You seem to believe otherwise because "training camp is first and foremost for training the team.
".


For the first time in Perreault’s brief career, his contractual status finally is on his side. Like Bourque, Hanson and Potulny, he must clear waivers to be assigned to Hershey. Sjogren and Eakin, on the other hand, do not.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...8hXK_blog.html

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09-17-2011, 09:27 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
He was also a 1st rounder....you do the math. Bourque was always a fringe NHLer at best. Turns out it was the right decision. If you say it's based on the fact that Fehr wasn't waiver exempt, I guess you believe MP85 is a lock to make the roster too.


My point in this was that Sjogren must earn his spot IN CAMP. IMO if he has a poor camp, he's going down. You seem to believe otherwise because "training camp is first and foremost for training the team.
".


For the first time in Perreault’s brief career, his contractual status finally is on his side. Like Bourque, Hanson and Potulny, he must clear waivers to be assigned to Hershey. Sjogren and Eakin, on the other hand, do not.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...8hXK_blog.html
Its true that Sjogren must earn his spot. What earning his spot means different things. Just as with Fehr and Bourque. Fehr didnt have to have a better camp than Bourque to beat bourque out of a roster spot.

Same with Sjogren and Eakin. Last season Johansson did not have to be better than Eakin in camp to earn his roster spot. He wasnt better, but he did earn his spot and it turned out to be the right decision.

my point here is just that. Sjogren has been signed to play. He is older and stronger and more ready for the NHL game. Eakin has already had two NHL camps and NHL preseason games. He has a head start. You'd think that Sjogren wont be better than Eakin til November or December.

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