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who doesnt make it?

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Old
09-01-2011, 10:05 AM
  #1
ducky
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who doesnt make it?

How do you see the lineups with the current roster?

Can either of MacLean or Tihkonov crack this roster (or do we lose them on waivers)? Does Miele surprise? Can Summers push one of the verterans on defense?

I hope against hope Tippett can work some young players onto the roster. Right now we are one of the oldest teams in the league!

LW = Korpikoski, Whitney, Torres, Pyatt, MacLean, Bissonnette, Miele
C = Langkow, Hanzal, Turris, Gordon, Nokelainen, Pouliot
RW = Doan, Vrbata, Boedker, Tikhonov

Interesting possibilities...

Korpikoski - Turris - Boedker
MacLean - Langkow - Doan
Torres - Hanzal - Vrbata
Pyatt - Gordon - Tikhonov

Whitney?

Yandle - Morris
OEL - Aucoin
Klesa - Roscival
Summers

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09-01-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky View Post
How do you see the lineups with the current roster?

Can either of MacLean or Tihkonov crack this roster (or do we lose them on waivers)? Does Miele surprise? Can Summers push one of the verterans on defense?

I hope against hope Tippett can work some young players onto the roster. Right now we are one of the oldest teams in the league!

LW = Korpikoski, Whitney, Torres, Pyatt, MacLean, Bissonnette, Miele
C = Langkow, Hanzal, Turris, Gordon, Nokelainen, Pouliot
RW = Doan, Vrbata, Boedker, Tikhonov

Interesting possibilities...

Korpikoski - Turris - Boedker
MacLean - Langkow - Doan
Torres - Hanzal - Vrbata
Pyatt - Gordon - Tikhonov

Whitney?

Yandle - Morris
OEL - Aucoin
Klesa - Roscival
Summers
IMO Turris needs a protector.

Torres - Turris - Boedker

MacLean - Lankow - Doan (both wings need a playmaking center)

Korpi - Hanzal - Vrbata (both wings can get a lot of unassisted goals and I don't consider Hanzal much of a playmaker

Pyatt - Gordon - Tiks (can be a bruising line)

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09-01-2011, 01:03 PM
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If Mac and Tiki dont make it how do we know for sure they will both be waived and not traded as part of a package? Just because these 2 may not make it into Tippett's system that doesnt mean they wont breakout with a more offensive minded team sooner than later. IMO I just hate to see people go for nothing unless you know they will never make it into the NHL regularly. Some other team for sure will pick up those 2 on waivers and will never see the minors.

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09-01-2011, 01:13 PM
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We've got 15 forwards. I'd cut Pyatt. Keep 14 towards if we can afford it.

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09-01-2011, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
If Mac and Tiki dont make it how do we know for sure they will both be waived and not traded as part of a package? Just because these 2 may not make it into Tippett's system that doesnt mean they wont breakout with a more offensive minded team sooner than later. IMO I just hate to see people go for nothing unless you know they will never make it into the NHL regularly. Some other team for sure will pick up those 2 on waivers and will never see the minors.
If one of those players isn't good enough to make the Coyotes, and other teams know the Coyotes will have to waive him, who do you think would have the leverage?

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09-01-2011, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
If one of those players isn't good enough to make the Coyotes, and other teams know the Coyotes will have to waive him, who do you think would have the leverage?
For players like Mac and Tikh (both of whom would, I think, draw moderate to heavy interest), I still think the Coyotes have good leverage. If you're not in the bottom 5 of the waiver order, do you risk missing out on them? Or give the Coyotes something to avoid being shut out in the waiver process?

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09-01-2011, 01:30 PM
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IMO, MacLean will be on the everyday roster...to valuable as a goal scorer to be left on the bench or left to waivers where we know he would be picked up.

Tikhonov is great on the PK, but won't hit, and therefore isn't a good fit to be on the checking line with Gordon and Pyatt/Nokelainen, etc...

I think he will be exposed to waivers and I think he clears, I just don't see teams interested in a player that is a non-checker with PK ability with limited scoring punch. Each team as a 1/2 dozen of those guys already in their systems.

Whitney/Hanzal/Vrbata
MacLean/Turris/Doan
Korpikoski/Langkow/Boedker
Pyatt-Noke/Gordon/Torres
Biz

Tiks is a longshot, and even though we wish Pyatt would hit like Torres, Pyatt has gifted hands and is light years ahead of Noke in terms of offense. The question facing Tipp is who else is going to be a PKer besides Gordon/Korpi/Hanzal/Torres, Langkow was a good PKer in the past, but he is up there in age and Pyatt wasn't very good on the PK last year, so Noke might get the nod over Pyatt.

Pyatt - Can score, hits sometimes, good defensively
Noke - Can't score, hits all the time, better defensively
Tiks - Might score, doesn't hit, good defensively

I just think Tiks is outside looking in.

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09-01-2011, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RR View Post
For players like Mac and Tikh (both of whom would, I think, draw moderate to heavy interest), I still think the Coyotes have good leverage. If you're not in the bottom 5 of the waiver order, do you risk missing out on them? Or give the Coyotes something to avoid being shut out in the waiver process?
If you're not in the bottom five, what are the odds one of these players makes your team? We're not talking about stud prospects here.

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09-01-2011, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
If one of those players isn't good enough to make the Coyotes, and other teams know the Coyotes will have to waive him, who do you think would have the leverage?
Very good point! It is the reality that I must face that a bust can happen at any round and pick number overall or that sometimes teams just get a steal that fall right into their lap. Personally, since Brad Marchand hasn't re-signed with Boston, I wouldn't mind seeing these Mac and Tiki being traded for Brad Marchand's rights for a chance we can sign him to something here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
For players like Mac and Tikh (both of whom would, I think, draw moderate to heavy interest), I still think the Coyotes have good leverage. If you're not in the bottom 5 of the waiver order, do you risk missing out on them? Or give the Coyotes something to avoid being shut out in the waiver process?
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
If you're not in the bottom five, what are the odds one of these players makes your team? We're not talking about stud prospects here.
Very good point as well and see 1st response.

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09-01-2011, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
If you're not in the bottom five, what are the odds one of these players makes your team? We're not talking about stud prospects here.
Not saying they are studs. But other teams knowing Tippett's aversion to playing younger players, I think many of them hold both players in higher regard than we do. Even if it's just a pick coming this way, better than losing them to waivers. And no real risk for the team trading for one of them.

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09-01-2011, 02:22 PM
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Since we didn't get the bona fide "top center" we were looking for, I would like to see us target another winger.
Now I could never imagine Maloney trading away a prospect, that's just my opinion, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen at all as long as the return is worth it. Let's say there was some kind of game plan throughout training camp in which Maloney and his staff watched Tikhonov and Maclean very closely to determine who makes the cut, and from there they decide what to do with the player who is subject to waivers and didn't quite make it. Either one of Tikhonov or Maclean could probably be good trade bait, and if packaged, could possibly fetch us something decent in return.

So a scenario: Maclean outshines Tikhonov in training camp, and GMDM is left with no other options but to send Tikhonov down and take the risk of losing him, or trade the recently signed prospect. He decides to go with the latter option and creates a package to explore the market with. With training camp being such a busy time for player movement, some teams are open to trading.

Maloney offers:
Tikhonov- Hard working prospect that has all the fundamentals, just hasn't received an opportunity.
Pyatt- A hard working bottom 6 big body that can score 15 goals, 20 on a good year..and has the potential to bring in many more fans (ladiesss...)

And possibly, a lower round pick, or a second tier prospect like Ross, Hextall, or even Schlemko (a little more value than the others.)

So the trade on our side looks like...

PHO sends:
RW Viktor Tikhonov
LW Taylor Pyatt
D David Schlemko

To: ________ for _________?

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09-01-2011, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sindiggy View Post
IMO, MacLean will be on the everyday roster...too valuable as a goal scorer to be left on the bench or left to waivers where we know he would be picked up.

Tikhonov is great on the PK, but won't hit, and therefore isn't a good fit to be on the checking line with Gordon and Pyatt/Nokelainen, etc...

Tiks is a longshot, and even though we wish Pyatt would hit like Torres, Pyatt has gifted hands and is light years ahead of Noke in terms of offense. The question facing Tipp is who else is going to be a PKer besides Gordon/Korpi/Hanzal/Torres, Langkow was a good PKer in the past, but he is up there in age and Pyatt wasn't very good on the PK last year, so Noke might get the nod over Pyatt.

Pyatt - Can score, hits sometimes, good defensively
Noke - Can't score, hits all the time, better defensively
Tiks - Might score, doesn't hit, good defensively

I just think Tiks is outside looking in.
All of this makes sense.

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09-01-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Since we didn't get the bona fide "top center" we were looking for, I would like to see us target another winger.
Now I could never imagine Maloney trading away a prospect, that's just my opinion, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen at all as long as the return is worth it. Let's say there was some kind of game plan throughout training camp in which Maloney and his staff watched Tikhonov and Maclean very closely to determine who makes the cut, and from there they decide what to do with the player who is subject to waivers and didn't quite make it. Either one of Tikhonov or Maclean could probably be good trade bait, and if packaged, could possibly fetch us something decent in return.

So a scenario: Maclean outshines Tikhonov in training camp, and GMDM is left with no other options but to send Tikhonov down and take the risk of losing him, or trade the recently signed prospect. He decides to go with the latter option and creates a package to explore the market with. With training camp being such a busy time for player movement, some teams are open to trading.

Maloney offers:
Tikhonov- Hard working prospect that has all the fundamentals, just hasn't received an opportunity.
Pyatt- A hard working bottom 6 big body that can score 15 goals, 20 on a good year..and has the potential to bring in many more fans (ladiesss...)

And possibly, a lower round pick, or a second tier prospect like Ross, Hextall, or even Schlemko (a little more value than the others.)

So the trade on our side looks like...

PHO sends:
RW Viktor Tikhonov
LW Taylor Pyatt
D David Schlemko

To: ________ for _________?
Maybe I'm just being a pessimist, but I really just don't see another team giving up anything worthwhile for that package. Can you think of a comparable deal where a team gave up three scraps and got something of note in return?

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09-01-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Since we didn't get the bona fide "top center" we were looking for, I would like to see us target another winger.
Now I could never imagine Maloney trading away a prospect, that's just my opinion, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen at all as long as the return is worth it. Let's say there was some kind of game plan throughout training camp in which Maloney and his staff watched Tikhonov and Maclean very closely to determine who makes the cut, and from there they decide what to do with the player who is subject to waivers and didn't quite make it. Either one of Tikhonov or Maclean could probably be good trade bait, and if packaged, could possibly fetch us something decent in return.

So a scenario: Maclean outshines Tikhonov in training camp, and GMDM is left with no other options but to send Tikhonov down and take the risk of losing him, or trade the recently signed prospect. He decides to go with the latter option and creates a package to explore the market with. With training camp being such a busy time for player movement, some teams are open to trading.

Maloney offers:
Tikhonov- Hard working prospect that has all the fundamentals, just hasn't received an opportunity.
Pyatt- A hard working bottom 6 big body that can score 15 goals, 20 on a good year..and has the potential to bring in many more fans (ladiesss...)

And possibly, a lower round pick, or a second tier prospect like Rooss, Hextall, or even Schlemko (a little more value than the others.)

So the trade on our side looks like...

PHO sends:
RW Viktor Tikhonov
LW Taylor Pyatt
D David Schlemko

To: ________ for _________?
NYI for 2012 4th round pick.

I'm not trying to be an ass. I don't think that package gets us more.

If we move Schlemko, however, i think its a 7th D we need, and not a winger. Perhaps an over priced but effective physical presence.

As far as forwards go...

1. Doan
2. Langkow
3. Korpikoski
4. Whitney
5. Hanzal
6. Vrbata
7. Torres
8. Turris
9. Boedker
10. Pyatt
11. Gordon
12. Nokelainen
----
13. MacLean
14. Tikhonov
15. Bissonnette

Trading Pyatt and Tikhonov for a winger still leaves you with two too many.

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Old
09-01-2011, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
NYI for 2012 4th round pick.

I'm not trying to be an ass. I don't think that package gets us more.

If we move Schlemko, however, i think its a 7th D we need, and not a winger. Perhaps an over priced but effective physical presence.

As far as forwards go...

1. Doan
2. Langkow
3. Korpikoski
4. Whitney
5. Hanzal
6. Vrbata
7. Torres
8. Turris
9. Boedker
10. Pyatt
11. Gordon
12. Nokelainen
----
13. MacLean
14. Tikhonov
15. Bissonnette

Trading Pyatt and Tikhonov for a winger still leaves you with two too many.
I think it'll be fine to carry 14. Injuries are going to happen, and I'm Tippett likes being able to play the healthy scratch card from time to time.

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09-01-2011, 03:45 PM
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I was saying anything significant, just decent. Maybe a third line winger that can help on the PK the way that Pyatt can't. Nothing against Pyatt, I actually warmed up to him quite a bit, I would just rather not lose Tikhonov for nothing.

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09-01-2011, 03:52 PM
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I just cant see Tik making the roster, I think he is a better player than Biz but for some reaason i just dont see Biz being sent down. Mac will make the team, not sure if he will start, but i think he will be on the roster come opening day.

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09-01-2011, 04:41 PM
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GMDM has in several interviews discussing the Langkow for Stempniak trade mentions getting more ice time or an open slot for MacLean.

He never mentions Tikhonov and undoubtedly MacLean has put himself in position to get a job because of his 3 years in AHL.

Tiks should just go play in the KHL and make his money and use his name for endorsements...I just don't see him cracking the lineup ever.

Summers will no doubt be on the team next year when Rozy and Aucoin's contracts run out, but he won't be on the squad this year as Tipp will want him logging big minutes on the farm rather than sitting in the presser for the Yotes.

I'm hoping for a great year from both Summers and Goncharov for two reasons. 1 - I'd like to see both with the big club, and 2 - because it allows GMDM some wiggle room at the deadline to deal one of Rozy/Aucoin for some much needed help on offence

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09-01-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
I think it'll be fine to carry 14. Injuries are going to happen, and I'm Tippett likes being able to play the healthy scratch card from time to time.
Agreed. That's why I want to waive Pyatt. Need a Goon in the twelve spot? Biz. Need PK? Tik. Need PP? Mac. I like having the options. Pyatt is all fine and dandy, but I think Torres takes that spot away from him. He's more effective.

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09-01-2011, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sindiggy View Post
GMDM has in several interviews discussing the Langkow for Stempniak trade mentions getting more ice time or an open slot for MacLean.

He never mentions Tikhonov and undoubtedly MacLean has put himself in position to get a job because of his 3 years in AHL.

Tiks should just go play in the KHL and make his money and use his name for endorsements...I just don't see him cracking the lineup ever.

Summers will no doubt be on the team next year when Rozy and Aucoin's contracts run out, but he won't be on the squad this year as Tipp will want him logging big minutes on the farm rather than sitting in the presser for the Yotes.

I'm hoping for a great year from both Summers and Goncharov for two reasons. 1 - I'd like to see both with the big club, and 2 - because it allows GMDM some wiggle room at the deadline to deal one of Rozy/Aucoin for some much needed help on offence
He mentions Tik every time he mentions Mac. Goes for the audio on the Yotes site, the video on the Yotes site, the roc and manuch pod cast and the 560 in Calgary podcast. He always mentions both players in the same breath.

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09-01-2011, 05:06 PM
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Agreed. That's why I want to waive Pyatt. Need a Goon in the twelve spot? Biz. Need PK? Tik. Need PP? Mac. I like having the options. Pyatt is all fine and dandy, but I think Torres takes that spot away from him. He's more effective.
Let's not forget Pyatt scored 18 goals last year. I'm in no hurry to get rid of that for nothing.

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09-01-2011, 05:10 PM
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The Tik Mac relationship is interesting to me.
I honestly don't think much of Tik's offensive upside. Same goes for Mac in the exact opposite areas. I'm not sure he's ever going to be a well rounded Tippet guy.

In theory I would think Tik has the inside track though because he's already shown he can tread water in the NHL and not look out of place.

I think we'll see a spare part type line up for a while. They'll be moved in and out a lot. However I don't think that's an environment MacLean will succeed in. Tik's game is much more suited to less frequent play.

EDIT: Regarding Pyatt. I don't think Pyatt is going anywhere right away. Too much uncertainty in the line up.

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09-01-2011, 05:10 PM
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Let's not forget Pyatt scored 18 goals last year. I'm in no hurry to get rid of that for nothing.
He has also showed up and played like it mattered the last two years in the post season. I haven't forgotten. I like Pyatt. I like that he can contribute spot duty on the third PK and the third PP. I like that he can play on any line with a variety of player types. He's a versatile, valuable and ultimately very likable player.

Having said all of that, I don't want to lose Tik and Mac so Tippett can give Pyatt at the games he can handle.

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09-01-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
The Tik Mac relationship is interesting to me.
I honestly don't think much of Tik's offensive upside. Same goes for Mac in the exact opposite areas. I'm not sure he's ever going to be a well rounded Tippet guy.

In theory I would think Tik has the inside track though because he's already shown he can tread water in the NHL and not look out of place.

I think we'll see a spare part type line up for a while. They'll be moved in and out a lot. However I don't think that's an environment MacLean will succeed in. Tik's game is much more suited to less frequent play.
Agreed.100%

Edit: I also agree with your edit. I only see Maloney moving Pyatt to save Tippett from himself.

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09-01-2011, 06:11 PM
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I think we should wait to see what Tikh shows in camp before showing him the door. It'd be nice to have quality depth available for the inevitable injuries. Even if someone is just nursing an injury and could go, it'd be nice to have a healthy body to plug in the lineup and rest people.
Having said that, of the 14 forwards he's the one who most needs a strong camp to stick (if Tipp/DM go with 13). Trading him for a pick to SJ if he doesn't wow us, would be fine by me (Maybe Rick Knickle has a nephew we can draft with it).
Still wouldn't mind adding Boyes, but that doesn't necessarily help with the glut at forward.
If Bissonette is on this team after camp and we waive any of the kids, I might kick someone's dog or something.

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