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Old
09-01-2011, 08:31 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by _Del_ View Post
I think we should wait to see what Tikh shows in camp before showing him the door. It'd be nice to have quality depth available for the inevitable injuries. Even if someone is just nursing an injury and could go, it'd be nice to have a healthy body to plug in the lineup and rest people.
Having said that, of the 14 forwards he's the one who most needs a strong camp to stick (if Tipp/DM go with 13). Trading him for a pick to SJ if he doesn't wow us, would be fine by me (Maybe Rick Knickle has a nephew we can draft with it).
Still wouldn't mind adding Boyes, but that doesn't necessarily help with the glut at forward.
If Bissonette is on this team after camp and we waive any of the kids, I might kick someone's dog or something.
I don't want Tik or Mac fighting Westgarth or Parros.

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09-01-2011, 08:40 PM
  #27
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They'd embarrass themselves just as well as Biz. If we waive a kid to make room for Bissonette, it'd be foolishness.

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09-01-2011, 09:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by _Del_ View Post
They'd embarrass themselves just as well as Biz. If we waive a kid to make room for Bissonette, it'd be foolishness.
1. My point was its apples to oranges. They don't have the same roles.
2. Find me one fight in the OHL, ECHL, AHL or NHL where Biz embarrassed himself.

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09-01-2011, 09:57 PM
  #29
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If you're not in the bottom five, what are the odds one of these players makes your team? We're not talking about stud prospects here.
If Maclean isn't a stud prospect, what is? He isn't an elite prospect, but he sure as hell isn't some waste of space prospect, or some average Joe. He is far and away our best forward prospect now that Boeds and Turris are full time NHL'ers.

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09-01-2011, 10:00 PM
  #30
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You know, at some point we need to generate pressure offensively. Not just goals but puck posession. That means either trading for a high end offensive player (not likely) or giving some of our offensively talented prospects a legitimate shot to prove themselves. Most of you seem to want to see a roster full of 2-way players with average at best offensive capability. I'll agree that a roster like that gets you in the playoffs every year but when everyone turns it up in the post season, we'll be hard pressed to get out of the first round no matter what match-up we get.

All those offensive stars that dog it on defense during the regular season (I'm talking about our opponents obviously since we have zilch) bust their ***** on the other end in the playoffs. Pack mentality, hustle, grit, heart or whatever you want to call it isn't enough in the playoffs. It's great that most of you like that. I hope you will support it with your cash. My cash demands more offense, excitement and playoff ability. Baring a trade:

Virbatta/Doan Langkow Mac
Virbatta/Doan Hanzal Korpi
Whitney Turris Boeds
Torres Gordon Tiki/Pyatt/Noke

Dump Biz. He contributes next to nothing. He's a side show that has become stale in my opinion. Trade or release one of Pyatt or Noke and let the other battle with/mentor Tiki. I'd still like to see a trade involving one of them and one of our Vet dmen to put OEL in the top 4 and give the rest of our stacked group of prospects a chance to break the top 6.

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09-01-2011, 10:56 PM
  #31
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Whitney - Langkow - Doan
Vrbata - Hanzal - Korpikoski
Torres - Turris - Boedker
Pyatt - Gordon - Chipchura/Bissonnette
Biz/Chip

Morris - Yandle
Rozsival - Klesla
Aucoin - Ekman-Larsson
Schlemko/Anyone

Smith
LaBarbara

I think its pointless to have one dimensional player like Maclean in the line-up if we can't offer him top 2 line minutes. Who should we demote to the lower lines for him?

Chipchura is gritty player with some untapped skill. I think he is a better suited fourth liner than Pouliot, Tikhonov, Maclean, etc. Plus he brings in toughness in the line-up when we decide to scratch Bissonnette.

Putting Torres with Turris and Boedker is bound to produce magic. Torres offers physicality and grittiness that neither Turris nor Boedker contain. It should definitely balance that line.

I think we should bring in a veteran physical defenseman in place of Schlemko. Schlemko is a dime of a dozen player that isn't great at a particular area of skill.

I'd be fine with this line-up with some hopes that the goaltending keeps it together.

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09-02-2011, 02:03 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemoAZ View Post
You know, at some point we need to generate pressure offensively. Not just goals but puck posession. That means either trading for a high end offensive player (not likely) or giving some of our offensively talented prospects a legitimate shot to prove themselves. Most of you seem to want to see a roster full of 2-way players with average at best offensive capability. I'll agree that a roster like that gets you in the playoffs every year but when everyone turns it up in the post season, we'll be hard pressed to get out of the first round no matter what match-up we get.

All those offensive stars that dog it on defense during the regular season (I'm talking about our opponents obviously since we have zilch) bust their ***** on the other end in the playoffs. Pack mentality, hustle, grit, heart or whatever you want to call it isn't enough in the playoffs. It's great that most of you like that. I hope you will support it with your cash. My cash demands more offense, excitement and playoff ability. Baring a trade:

Virbatta/Doan Langkow Mac
Virbatta/Doan Hanzal Korpi
Whitney Turris Boeds
Torres Gordon Tiki/Pyatt/Noke

Dump Biz. He contributes next to nothing. He's a side show that has become stale in my opinion. Trade or release one of Pyatt or Noke and let the other battle with/mentor Tiki. I'd still like to see a trade involving one of them and one of our Vet dmen to put OEL in the top 4 and give the rest of our stacked group of prospects a chance to break the top 6.
You say all of those things yet you list 14 players every other person has in their line up minus Bissonnette. Does subtracting Bissonnette and adding one of the other fourteen really change much?

Paul Bissonnette is a goon in the strictest sense of the word. Personally, I dont feel the need to keep that type player around. Obviously Maloney and Tippett do. Same as they like Smith as a starter.

Also, this isn't the NFL, you can't just release a player.

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09-02-2011, 02:06 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bandit34 View Post
Whitney - Langkow - Doan
Vrbata - Hanzal - Korpikoski
Torres - Turris - Boedker
Pyatt - Gordon - Chipchura/Bissonnette
Biz/Chip

Morris - Yandle
Rozsival - Klesla
Aucoin - Ekman-Larsson
Schlemko/Anyone

Smith
LaBarbara

I think its pointless to have one dimensional player like Maclean in the line-up if we can't offer him top 2 line minutes. Who should we demote to the lower lines for him?

Chipchura is gritty player with some untapped skill. I think he is a better suited fourth liner than Pouliot, Tikhonov, Maclean, etc. Plus he brings in toughness in the line-up when we decide to scratch Bissonnette.

Putting Torres with Turris and Boedker is bound to produce magic. Torres offers physicality and grittiness that neither Turris nor Boedker contain. It should definitely balance that line.

I think we should bring in a veteran physical defenseman in place of Schlemko. Schlemko is a dime of a dozen player that isn't great at a particular area of skill.

I'd be fine with this line-up with some hopes that the goaltending keeps it together.
Ditch Tikhonov and MacLean for Chipchura? He's gritty, sure. I know you love the big fighters, but I'm not sure Chipchura qualifies. I mean he will fight, but he's not an enforcer, or anything. Personally, I prefer the middle weights because its rarely the heavyweights that run around taking liberties. That said, I'm not about to sacrifice player with potential just to keep a middle weight and a Goon in the line up.

If you were arguing to ditch Biz and hang on to the more desperate and more willing to fight all comers, even the smaller ones, kind of fighter in Chipchura, I would totally agree. I would. I just doubt the guys who actually call the shots would.


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09-02-2011, 03:35 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
You say all of those things yet you list 14 players every other person has in their line up minus Bissonnette. Does subtracting Bissonnette and adding one of the other fourteen really change much?

Paul Bissonnette is a goon in the strictest sense of the word. Personally, I dont feel the need to keep that type player around. Obviously Maloney and Tippett do. Same as they like Smith as a starter.

Also, this isn't the NFL, you can't just release a player.
No ****. Buy out, cut, waive, demote, release. It all amounts to the same damn thing. Keeping Biz and losing one of our young guys could be huge imo. I'd be shocked if Tiki or Mac cleared. And it's not just roster spots but who's getting the minutes. If we don't develop some offensive consistency, our boring style might not even get us the playoffs considering Bryz isn't the one looking at the 35 shots a night. The young guys aiming for a spot this season along with guys like Lessio and Meile are the direction we need to be going. Not bringing back Belanger and Fiddler in favor of Turris and Langkow hopefully is the begining of a much needed change in direction. Maybe getting crushed and embarrassed by the Wings was what it took to finally open Tippett's eyes. Dreaming is always free.

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09-02-2011, 09:23 AM
  #35
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We need a fighter on this team, I do not think Biz is the answer, fighters should be heard on the ice and the rest of the time shut up. A NHL locker room demands that the smaller players and the Euros be protected.
This team is soft, the D have no one that can or should be fighting. Up front all we have are guys that do not fight. Torres, Pyatt and Gordon play hard but are not fighters. Doan is now wearing a shield and should not be fighting at his age.
Team toughness is gone with this roster and Maloney better do something or this team will get run out of rinks.

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09-02-2011, 10:16 AM
  #36
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We've had this enforcer debate a million times.

Personally, I don't like true heavies and I wish we had a Prust type. Someone who will fight everyone from Sean Avery and Matt Cooke to DJ King and Eric Godard. Give me a McCormick. A real hockey player that won't hesitate to go after a cheap shot artist, no matter how small.

Bissonnette will never attack a smaller player. Guys like Ott and Tootoo are the ones that run around. Pure goons don't. Bissonnette is useless in my opinion. There is no point to keeping him around.

Don Maloney, however, disagrees.

I'm not making this **** up, guys. He said more than once before the offseason started that not only was he going to keep Bissonnette but that he was looking to add a middleweight back up. Before we added Bissonnette Maloney talked all of the time about needing an enforcer and looking for an enforcer. I don't believe in the role. Don Maloney does. Strongly.

This is a guy who had Dan Carcillo, Todd Fedoruk, and Brian McGratton all on the same ****ing team.

I wish we would dump Bissonnette. We WILL NOT dump Bissonnette. Even if we do, we will replace him with somebody equally useless.

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09-02-2011, 10:28 AM
  #37
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I am and probably always be on the "enforcers are dumb" side of this argument, but when the players themselves have said they like having someone like that on the team and that they feel safer out there as a result, I'm tempted to think there's reason to keep one around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87turbobuick View Post
We need a fighter on this team, I do not think Biz is the answer, fighters should be heard on the ice and the rest of the time shut up. A NHL locker room demands that the smaller players and the Euros be protected.
You're right: our soft guys like Hanzal, Nokelainen and Klesla need to be protected. It's a good thing guys like Turris and Whitney are hard-nosed enough to stick up for them.

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09-02-2011, 10:47 AM
  #38
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The nice thing about Biz is that he doesn't get himself into trouble with the authorities, unlike Avery and some of the other guys. Wish he would tone down the twitter stuff, though

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09-02-2011, 10:54 AM
  #39
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The nice thing about Biz is that he doesn't get himself into trouble with the authorities, unlike Avery and some of the other guys. Wish he would tone down the twitter stuff, though
I don't see how Biz using Twitter has anything to do with us fans during the offseason. He isn't affecting anyone unless he is abusing during the actual season where it could become a problem. Who cares if he's on twitter and uses it.

Maclean-Langkow-Doan
Boedker-Turris-Korpikoski
Whitney-Hanzal-Vrbata
Torres-Gorden-Chipchura/Biz/Tik
Yandle-Gormely
Klesla-Morris
OEL-Rosival/Summers

Chipchura-spare


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09-02-2011, 11:04 AM
  #40
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I figure if a guy like Ferriero got picked up and worked his way into as many regular/playoff games with the Sharks as he has, the chances of Maclean or Tikhonov making it through waivers is nil.

Where can I find info like average minutes played on the PP and PK, preferably including AHL stats as well? What's a good resource for that? It seems like if we're looking for internal improvement on the PP and PK, Maclean and Tikhonov are our guys respectively. It really doesn't matter what line they play on 5-on-5, but that they fulfill their roles on special teams.

I would have no problem sending Nokelainen down. I doubt anyone would pick him up, he's on a one-way so he'll make his money either way, and we really only need him for the playoffs and maybe injuries in the bottom 6, so he's fairly expendable to start the year.

Unrelated question. We have all our picks in next year's draft, as well as Philly's 3rd from Bryz and Colorado's 4th from Winnik. Is that correct?

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09-02-2011, 11:14 AM
  #41
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NHL.com is fine for TOI stats. I don't think the AHL tracks stats so closely.

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09-02-2011, 11:31 AM
  #42
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I don't see how Biz using Twitter has anything to do with us fans during the offseason. He isn't affecting anyone unless he is abusing during the actual season where it could become a problem. Who cares if he's on twitter and uses it.

Maclean-Langkow-Doan
Boedker-Turris-Korpikoski
Whitney-Hanzal-Vrbata
Torres-Gorden-Chipchura/Biz/Tik
Yandle-Gormely
Klesla-Morris
OEL-Rosival/Summers

Chipchura-spare
I do! If all he does is fight, I would prefer a little less twitter and a little more discipline on the ice. Maybe then he can contribute more offensively and defensively.

Just my opinion

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09-02-2011, 11:37 AM
  #43
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I do! If all he does is fight, I would prefer a little less twitter and a little more discipline on the ice. Maybe then he can contribute more offensively and defensively.

Just my opinion
What does one have to do with the other? Tweeting takes as much time as sending a text message. It's not like he's moonlighting as a biochemist or something.

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09-02-2011, 11:44 AM
  #44
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What does one have to do with the other? Tweeting takes as much time as sending a text message. It's not like he's moonlighting as a biochemist or something.
It can become quite the distraction, in and out of the locker room. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he the one that was talking about wanting to go to Winnipeg via twitter? Or was that an in person interview? Look at the cards docket. Tweeted about thinking of bringing a gun to work.

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09-02-2011, 11:47 AM
  #45
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It can become quite the distraction, in and out of the locker room. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he the one that was talking about wanting to go to Winnipeg via twitter? Or was that an in person interview? Look at the cards docket. Tweeted about thinking of bringing a gun to work.
So a player tweets about bringing a gun to work, and your response is wanting him to stop tweeting? That's like a student calling in a bomb threat to a high school, and the principal saying "Students shouldn't have phones."

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09-02-2011, 11:51 AM
  #46
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So a player tweets about bringing a gun to work, and your response is wanting him to stop tweeting? That's like a student calling in a bomb threat to a high school, and the principal saying "Students shouldn't have phones."
The student response is way to general. The student that called it in should be expelled, though. Suspended for sure! Safety and threats are things that should not be tolerated at all. I would much rather just put rafi with turris and call it a day. Biz just takes up space.

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09-02-2011, 12:04 PM
  #47
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The student response is way to general. The student that called it in should be expelled, though. Suspended for sure! Safety and threats are things that should not be tolerated at all. I would much rather just put rafi with turris and call it a day. Biz just takes up space.
I'm not a Bissonnette fan by any means, but I guess I'm still not sure what your objection to his Twitter usage is. All players have time to themselves. Saying Biz shouldn't tweet (notwithstanding the fact that like half this team does the same thing, just not as frequently) is like saying he shouldn't be allowed to watch TV or go out to eat. I'm sure he works hard in practice, and I have my doubts that taking away Twitter is going to turn him suddenly into a competent hockey player.

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09-02-2011, 12:08 PM
  #48
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I'm not a Bissonnette fan by any means, but I guess I'm still not sure what your objection to his Twitter usage is. All players have time to themselves. Saying Biz shouldn't tweet (notwithstanding the fact that like half this team does the same thing, just not as frequently) is like saying he shouldn't be allowed to watch TV or go out to eat. I'm sure he works hard in practice, and I have my doubts that taking away Twitter is going to turn him suddenly into a competent hockey player.

If you go back to my first post, I praised him for not getting into trouble with the law, like Avery does. I also said he shouldn't stop, just slow down a bit. There is a reason why gmdm had him slow down a bit the first time.

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09-02-2011, 12:34 PM
  #49
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A Couple of things. 1st off to say that Tippetts system is useless in the playoffs is ridculous considering he has went as far as the Western Conference finals before. Tippetts issue is not getting past Detroit and in fairness to Tippett to we should have not had to play a team like like Detroit in the 1st round the last 2 seasons.

2nd I hope BizWussy is cut and I hope either one of those 2 goons in the minors will take over seeing that Maloney failed to bring Carcillo back!

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09-02-2011, 12:52 PM
  #50
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...Unrelated question. We have all our picks in next year's draft, as well as Philly's 3rd from Bryz and Colorado's 4th from Winnik. Is that correct?
Correct. You can track the picks at:

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Years/2012.htm

You can look back or forward to any year by changing the year in the URL.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/hockey/DraftTrades/Years/2013.htm

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