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Boyes+D Prospect for Stajan+Granlund

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Old
09-01-2011, 01:55 PM
  #1
Jame
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Boyes+D Prospect for Stajan+Granlund

Thoughts?

Stajan is a year removed from a 57 pt season. Boyes had 55 pts last year.

Stajan is a veteran center, at only 27 yrs old
He's a + defensive forward, and capable of making plays offensively
above 50% on faceoffs
low turnover/high takeaway center
signed for 3 years at 3.5 per (market value for a 2nd/3rd line center)

Granlund brings a legitimate center prospect into the fold. It doesn't hurt that he is a Fin, and at a similar development stage as Armia.

Cut 500k in cap space, while moving Boyes (winger) for a better defensive forward at a position of greater need.

I've never been a big fan of Stajan, but he's at the right stage of his career where there is still some upside (becoming a consistent 45ish pt player who can play both ways.

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09-01-2011, 01:58 PM
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I think Hecht-Stajan-Gerbe is a much better 3rd line then either of the two projected 3rd lines:
Hecht-Adam-Boyes (puts Gerbe on 4th line)
Gerbe-Hecht-Boyes

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09-01-2011, 02:06 PM
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The only question is how this impacts re-signing Ennis/Myers since Stajan will still be on the books. For this year I like it...but Stajan has a NTC so they couldn't just move him next summer.

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09-01-2011, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
The only question is how this impacts re-signing Ennis/Myers since Stajan will still be on the books. For this year I like it...but Stajan has a NTC so they couldn't just move him next summer.
Kotalik and Morrisonn's "AHL" contracts would have expired.

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09-01-2011, 02:11 PM
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I think capwise, they would be ok in 2012. They will have over roughly 12 million in cap space...

Myers+Ennis = 8 million IMO. That leaves 4 million to re-sign Kaleta and Goose... and your roster is set, the growth in the cap would account for the call ups/needed cap space.

and that's if the cap doesn't go up at all. Leopold or Sekera would be easily tradeable if cap space is needed.

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09-01-2011, 02:27 PM
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I'd be okay with Stajan as a third line center. I've never been his biggest fan, but he's not totally useless, either. I'd be more comfortable with him in the middle of the third line than Hecht or Adam.

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09-01-2011, 03:38 PM
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I posted this in the Trade Forum thread, too:

I'm gonna pass on that. Stajan would've had a lot of value to us after this season if we were still concerned about actual salary. Since we're now concerned about cap hit, Stajan doesn't have much value to us, and he may actually hurt us. Nine goals in 103 games for a scoring-line center is very bad. I'd rather roll with the cheaper Luke Adam playing 3C and allow him to come along slowly. Also, I can't help but remember many of the Fins around here ripping Markus Granlund and saying he wouldn't have been picked in the top-100 if his last name wasn't what it is.

In sum, I'd rather have one year of Boyes and keep Brennan (for now) than have three more seasons of Stajan and a guy I think is going to be a bust.

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09-01-2011, 03:47 PM
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I don't see how Matt Stajan or even Jared Stoll are what this team needs right now. Obviously a defense first Center for the 3rd line is the teams biggest need but I don't think we have the size and grit throughout the rest of the line-up where these two players will be all that effective especially come playoff time.

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09-01-2011, 03:59 PM
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I dont see any way that Myers + Ennis = 8mil. Its going to be closer to 10 folks.

If Ennis has a good year look at the deal JVR signed and deduct 500k. If Doughty signs for 6-7mil Myers is getting 5-6.

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09-01-2011, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by threeVo View Post
I dont see any way that Myers + Ennis = 8mil. Its going to be closer to 10 folks.

If Ennis has a good year look at the deal JVR signed and deduct 500k. If Doughty signs for 6-7mil Myers is getting 5-6.
They could just as easily say, "Look at the Couture deal and then subtract." The cap number will be dependent upon term. If they give him two years, which Regier often likes to give for second contracts, I think the money will be in Couture's neighborhood. If they depart a bit from past practice and give a longer-term deal like JVR's, it'll be closer to $3.75-4m.

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09-01-2011, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
I don't see how Matt Stajan or even Jared Stoll are what this team needs right now. Obviously a defense first Center for the 3rd line is the teams biggest need but I don't think we have the size and grit throughout the rest of the line-up where these two players will be all that effective especially come playoff time.
I think their value comes in that they can be, in a squeeze, semi-effective 2nd line centers. I like to trust Lindy and Darcy's assessment of players, so I think Leino will be okay, but we don't know he will be until he's out there. Picking up Stajan or Stoll would be nice insurance in case he doesn't pan out at center while giving us some depth at a position of weakness.

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09-01-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threeVo View Post
I dont see any way that Myers + Ennis = 8mil. Its going to be closer to 10 folks.

If Ennis has a good year look at the deal JVR signed and deduct 500k. If Doughty signs for 6-7mil Myers is getting 5-6.
Myers at ~5 mil
Ennis at ~3 mil

8 mil total is a good ball park... i don't see it getting much higher

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09-01-2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Myers at ~5 mil
Ennis at ~3 mil

8 mil total is a good ball park... i don't see it getting much higher

Completely agree. I think some people also forget that this is the last year of the current CBA. There is a pretty decent chance that we will see a salary roll back imo.

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09-01-2011, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
They could just as easily say, "Look at the Couture deal and then subtract." The cap number will be dependent upon term. If they give him two years, which Regier often likes to give for second contracts, I think the money will be in Couture's neighborhood. If they depart a bit from past practice and give a longer-term deal like JVR's, it'll be closer to $3.75-4m.
Right, the biggest reason for JVR's higher number is the higher term and buying UFA years. I expect Darcy will do his standard "prove it" 2nd contract he usually gives young players (the only ones I can remember not getting that was Roy and obviously Vanek). Myers may be the next exception to that, but I don't think Ennis will.

5+3 sounds reasonable, although Myers it also depends on the term--if they go long term to buy UFA years that number will rise.

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09-01-2011, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I posted this in the Trade Forum thread, too:

I'm gonna pass on that. Stajan would've had a lot of value to us after this season if we were still concerned about actual salary. Since we're now concerned about cap hit, Stajan doesn't have much value to us, and he may actually hurt us. Nine goals in 103 games for a scoring-line center is very bad. I'd rather roll with the cheaper Luke Adam playing 3C and allow him to come along slowly. Also, I can't help but remember many of the Fins around here ripping Markus Granlund and saying he wouldn't have been picked in the top-100 if his last name wasn't what it is.

In sum, I'd rather have one year of Boyes and keep Brennan (for now) than have three more seasons of Stajan and a guy I think is going to be a bust.
There are Pros & Cons both ways... and either way it is a gamble for both teams, but still as I said in the main board post, I really like this proposal.

We are going to trade Boyes - be it now or mid season or at the deadline... IMO it's gonna happen... Might as well be now.

The scariest thought in the world right now for me personally, is getting into the season and finding out Leino cant win a faceoff consistantly to save his life - Especially since we know Hecht can struggle with that same facset of the game... It would be nice to have a proven NHL centre (albeit a defensive-ish one...) to bail us out/pick up the slack. Stajan is overpayed for what he has produced thus far in TOR & CGY, however those have been a couple pretty bad teams too, it could be interesting to see him play for Ruff & Co.

As for Granlund, a centre prospect is a centre prospect. It would be sad to lose Brennan, but our depth at D makes a swap worthwhile IMO.

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09-01-2011, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by threeVo View Post
I dont see any way that Myers + Ennis = 8mil. Its going to be closer to 10 folks.

If Ennis has a good year look at the deal JVR signed and deduct 500k. If Doughty signs for 6-7mil Myers is getting 5-6.
JVR was a top 3 pick. They're paying for potential because it's 6 years. Ennis will be around 3 mil on a shorter term.

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09-01-2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Thoughts?

Stajan is a year removed from a 57 pt season. Boyes had 55 pts last year.

Stajan is a veteran center, at only 27 yrs old
He's a + defensive forward, and capable of making plays offensively
above 50% on faceoffs
low turnover/high takeaway center
signed for 3 years at 3.5 per (market value for a 2nd/3rd line center)

Granlund brings a legitimate center prospect into the fold. It doesn't hurt that he is a Fin, and at a similar development stage as Armia.

Cut 500k in cap space, while moving Boyes (winger) for a better defensive forward at a position of greater need.

I've never been a big fan of Stajan, but he's at the right stage of his career where there is still some upside (becoming a consistent 45ish pt player who can play both ways.
Which one of the following gets bumped to the third line when Leino becomes a winger again, because Stajan will take his role at center?

Vanek, Stafford, Leino, Ennis, or Pomminville?

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09-01-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Which one of the following gets bumped to the third line when Leino becomes a winger again, because Stajan will take his role at center?

Vanek, Stafford, Leino, Ennis, or Pomminville?
If Leino doesn't succeed as a center, we have bigger problems.

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09-01-2011, 05:37 PM
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There is no way the dollar figure for Myers and Ennis will be under 10M/year. I predict Myers 6.5M and Ennis 3.5M as best case scenario.

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09-01-2011, 05:39 PM
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If Leino doesn't succeed as a center, we have bigger problems.
Well, aren't you already writing him off? I mean, you want to bring in another center, obviously. So, it seems like you don't want to give him a chance in the first place, or am I reading too much into this hypothetical trade proposal?

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09-01-2011, 06:22 PM
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There is no way the dollar figure for Myers and Ennis will be under 10M/year. I predict Myers 6.5M and Ennis 3.5M as best case scenario.
Thanks Nostradamus.

Unless they are signing both of them to 6+ year deals there is a real possibility they will sign them for less than 10 million. If they can't, Darcy may be the worst GM in the NHL.

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09-01-2011, 06:53 PM
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I like it alot, Not sure if Calgary fans would go for it though..

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09-01-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Thoughts?

Stajan is a year removed from a 57 pt season. Boyes had 55 pts last year.

Stajan is a veteran center, at only 27 yrs old
He's a + defensive forward, and capable of making plays offensively
above 50% on faceoffs
low turnover/high takeaway center
signed for 3 years at 3.5 per (market value for a 2nd/3rd line center)

Granlund brings a legitimate center prospect into the fold. It doesn't hurt that he is a Fin, and at a similar development stage as Armia.

Cut 500k in cap space, while moving Boyes (winger) for a better defensive forward at a position of greater need.

I've never been a big fan of Stajan, but he's at the right stage of his career where there is still some upside (becoming a consistent 45ish pt player who can play both ways.
Stajan was carried By Kessel during his 57 point year once he was taken away from Kessel he scored 6 goals.

Not only that but while he was a Leaf he was SOFT Maybe that has changed in Calgary but in Toronto he was SOFT he's at BEST a 3rd line Center once again proven once he as taken away from Kessel.

If he couldn't click with Iggy he wouldn't click in Buffalo like I said he's at BEST a #3 center and 3.5 million for a #3 center is to damn much. Besides that I'm pretty sure he has a NTC so who is to say he'd waive to go to Buffalo? either way Trust the Leaf fan that watched him every game for 5.5 seasons you DON'T WANT HIM

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09-01-2011, 07:34 PM
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Well, aren't you already writing him off? I mean, you want to bring in another center, obviously. So, it seems like you don't want to give him a chance in the first place, or am I reading too much into this hypothetical trade proposal?
Yep. Perhaps you're forgetting our 3rd line??? the one that is going to be centred by Hecht.... Seems pretty obvious that Jame was leaning toward that as opposed to replacing Leino - am I right or am I right?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
Stajan was carried By Kessel during his 57 point year once he was taken away from Kessel he scored 6 goals.

Not only that but while he was a Leaf he was SOFT Maybe that has changed in Calgary but in Toronto he was SOFT he's at BEST a 3rd line Center once again proven once he as taken away from Kessel.

If he couldn't click with Iggy he wouldn't click in Buffalo like I said he's at BEST a #3 center and 3.5 million for a #3 center is to damn much. Besides that I'm pretty sure he has a NTC so who is to say he'd waive to go to Buffalo? either way Trust the Leaf fan that watched him every game for 5.5 seasons you DON'T WANT HIM
Do you think it could have something to do with Toronto's system in general (Calgary's situation in the last couple years has also been pretty bleek), Wellwood was pretty soft (literally) and useless in TO, seemed to do alright when he got to VAN though didn't he??? Honestly, I feel those 2 are quite comparable in this situation.

$3.5M is just slightly above going rate for a decent centre with upside (he11, we're paying our 3rd line RW $4M right now), and since Buffalo doesn't need anything more than a 3rd liner, Stajan would seem to fit well. I would bet my left nut that Matty would wave that NTC in the blink of an eye if it meant going to a legit contender... no questions asked!!!

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09-01-2011, 08:03 PM
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Yep. Perhaps you're forgetting our 3rd line??? the one that is going to be centred by Hecht.... Seems pretty obvious that Jame was leaning toward that as opposed to replacing Leino - am I right or am I right?!?
In that case, I wouldn't make that move now but I might consider it near the deadline depending how things are going.

Gaustad is playing a contract out, and even if he wasn't he might still be a better 3rd line option than Stajan. Don't overvalue the regular season this year, there's no need to do too much now. Adam might be poised to have a great season, and gain valuable experience at the NHL level, or who knows who else might step up in camp.

Leino is not going to be a glowing success at center this season, in my opinion it's goign to take 40-60 games to truly gauge his future in that role. If it doesn't work out you got the trade deadline. As for the rest of the depth, they have a lot of guys who can play 3rd or 4th line center, Hecht isn't bad at it at all.

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