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Who Would Have Won in 2004-05 Season?

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09-02-2011, 10:59 AM
  #1
Axxellien
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Who Would Have Won in 2004-05 Season?

..Concurrant with the previous thread, who would have won the major prizes had the 2004-05 season occured?..The Stanley Cup? ...Ottawa Senators, Red Wings, Tampa Bay?..President`s Trophy for 1rst place finish??... Who would have copped the Hart, Richard, Art Ross?......The Calder, Selke, Lady Byng, the Norris?..Speculation Welcomed...

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Old
09-02-2011, 11:22 AM
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frontsfan2005
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Calder: Alexander Ovechkin, Washington
Selke: Rod Brind'Amour, Carolina
Lady Byng: Brad Richards, Tampa Bay
Norris: Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit
Richard: Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta
Vezina: Dominik Hasek, Ottawa
Art Ross: Jaromir Jagr, NY Rangers
Hart: Jarome Iginla, Calgary

President's Trophy: Tampa Bay Lightning
Western Conference Champion: Detroit Red Wings
Eastern Conference Champion: Ottawa Senators
Stanley Cup Champion: Ottawa Senators

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Old
09-02-2011, 11:58 AM
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Robert Lang tears up the league in the regular season and playoffs leading the Wings over the Lightning's hopes for a repeat

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Old
09-02-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frontsfan2005 View Post
Calder: Alexander Ovechkin, WashingtonSelke: Rod Brind'Amour, Carolina
Lady Byng: Brad Richards, Tampa Bay
Norris: Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit
Richard: Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta
Vezina: Dominik Hasek, Ottawa
Art Ross: Jaromir Jagr, NY Rangers
Hart: Jarome Iginla, Calgary

President's Trophy: Tampa Bay Lightning
Western Conference Champion: Detroit Red Wings
Eastern Conference Champion: Ottawa Senators
Stanley Cup Champion: Ottawa Senators
I don't think Ovechkin would have won the Calder.

The extra year in the RSL really helped Ovechkin and his maturing and development.

In the RSL he only had 27 Pts in 37 games that year and the time off to train and prepare helped him make the jump to the NHL more quickly.

I think if there was a 2004-05 season Malkin would have been in the NHL and he would have won the Calder.

As for Jagr (and I'm the biggest Jagr fan) I don't think he would have won the Art Ross if there was a 2004-05 season.

The 2004-05 season was the grace Jagr needed, going to play for Kladno and then Omsk that year really helped him find his passion for hockey again and gave him the opportunity to refocus himself.

If not for the lockout, Jagr would have never regained his form.

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Old
09-02-2011, 01:01 PM
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I have this gut feeling, and have had that feeling ever since the lockout, that Toronto would have won it all that year.

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09-02-2011, 01:07 PM
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Assuming this is pre-Cap decimation: Ottawa wins it all I think, assuming they still sign Hasek. Overall that team was loaded before they had to start breaking things up because of the cap.

Tampa and Detroit also would have been solidly in the running.

as for the individual trophies... absolutely no clue.

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09-02-2011, 01:21 PM
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It would have been the first year of the Carolina dynasty

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09-02-2011, 01:45 PM
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2005 was going to be Ottawa's year, with Hasek solving the goalie issue. Guaranteed.

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09-02-2011, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
2005 was going to be Ottawa's year, with Hasek solving the goalie issue. Guaranteed.
Agreed. Ottawa would definetly be the team of the 2005. Doesnt mean they would win Cup, but they would have som trophy winners, deep playoff run and maybe the Cup.

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09-02-2011, 03:51 PM
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09-02-2011, 06:08 PM
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Don't ignore Boston... They were one of the favorites in 03-04 to win the whole thing until Thornton got hurt late in the season. Thornton, Knuble, Murray, Nylander, Samsonov, Bergeron, Boyes, Rolston, Lapointe, Axelsson, Gonchar, Boynton, McGillis, Slegr, O'Donnell, Gill, Andrew Raycroft when the oversized pads were still legal, they had a great team that was destroyed by the lockout.

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Old
09-03-2011, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frontsfan2005 View Post
Calder: Alexander Ovechkin, Washington
Selke: Rod Brind'Amour, Carolina
Lady Byng: Brad Richards, Tampa Bay
Norris: Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit
Richard: Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta
Vezina: Dominik Hasek, Ottawa
Art Ross: Jaromir Jagr, NY Rangers
Hart: Jarome Iginla, Calgary

President's Trophy: Tampa Bay Lightning
Western Conference Champion: Detroit Red Wings
Eastern Conference Champion: Ottawa Senators
Stanley Cup Champion: Ottawa Senators
This sounds about right. Ottawa-Detroit could have been a great SCF. Tampa was in such a weak division that I would favor them for PT. I like Kiprusoff to battle with Hasek for the Vezina and probably win it. He was coming off a great playoff performance that would help his cause, while Hasek had injury problems in both '04 and '06.

As far as Ross (and probably Hart), there's 5-6 players in the mix. Nylander signed with NYR in summer '04, so assume he and Straka (who was FA in Czech) would have been Jagr's linemates, in which case he likely would have been top 5. It would have been a battle, probably between Jagr, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Alfredsson, Hossa, Sakic and (if healthy) Forsberg. Most points combined in '04 & '06:

Thornton 198
Jagr 197
Kovalchuk 185
Alfredsson 183
Hossa 174
Sakic 174

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09-03-2011, 10:30 PM
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Everyone is picking the Sens huh? Why? I think the better choice is Tampa Bay. For starters, they had the experience from 2004. Richards, Lecavalier and St. Louis are in their primes. They don't likely loose Khabibulin meaning the main piece they lost in 2005 (goalie) is still there.

Ottawa were perennial chokers. Alfredsson guaranteed a Cup win and they lost in the first round in 2004. I would honestly pick Toronto over Ottawa since they always had the Sens number and you get the feeling something, somewhere, somehow would screw up for them. Maybe Hasek puts them over the top, or maybe he's 40 years old and can't.

Detroit isn't a bad choice, but they were as old as sin by then. Yzerman, Shanahan were old. They still had pieces in place and they would do what they always did and get over 100 points and win the division, but Detroit often did one of two things. They either won the Cup, or they wouldn't look good when they lost. Case in point, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2006. They had some no-shows in the postseason let's not forget, it just gets clouded a bit because they won the Cup often enough to compensate for it.

Tampa is my pick again.

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Old
09-03-2011, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian North View Post
I have this gut feeling, and have had that feeling ever since the lockout, that Toronto would have won it all that year.
That was the year they were set up for! 3 downright scary puck moving defensmen in Leetch, McCabe and Kaberle. 3 deep scoring lines and a goalie who had 10 shutouts the year before.

Other teams in hunt would be Detroit, Ottawa, Tampa, Philly, Calgary

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09-04-2011, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Everyone is picking the Sens huh? Why? I think the better choice is Tampa Bay. For starters, they had the experience from 2004. Richards, Lecavalier and St. Louis are in their primes. They don't likely loose Khabibulin meaning the main piece they lost in 2005 (goalie) is still there.

Ottawa were perennial chokers. Alfredsson guaranteed a Cup win and they lost in the first round in 2004. I would honestly pick Toronto over Ottawa since they always had the Sens number and you get the feeling something, somewhere, somehow would screw up for them. Maybe Hasek puts them over the top, or maybe he's 40 years old and can't.

Detroit isn't a bad choice, but they were as old as sin by then. Yzerman, Shanahan were old. They still had pieces in place and they would do what they always did and get over 100 points and win the division, but Detroit often did one of two things. They either won the Cup, or they wouldn't look good when they lost. Case in point, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2006. They had some no-shows in the postseason let's not forget, it just gets clouded a bit because they won the Cup often enough to compensate for it.

Tampa is my pick again.
It's really, really hard to say. We haven't had a repeat Champ since Detroit and I think that it would've been especially hard for Tampa who played 2 long, hard series' against Philly and Calgary in the playoffs and the team didn't hold up like it should post-lockout. I forget when Khabi actually was up for FA, so if it was '04 and he still goes then that's a huge, huge loss. It's hard to tell how any of the players individually do: St. Louis is sandwiched in between an MVP winning career year in 03-04 and a miserable 05-06, Khabibulin also had a great 03-04 and a ridiculously bad 05-06, Lecavalier is anyone's guess, etc.

And in regards to Ottawa, every good team is seen as choke artists unless they actually win it, and they lost a big chance with the lockout. The Bruins were choke artists going into this year, people were even going after the Wings not too long ago for some embarrassing early exits and for the 2011-2012 season we'll have the Sharks, Capitals and Canucks as largely disrespected teams with a good shot at winning it all. Ottawa never did get a playoffs with Hasek in net, which is quite the difference from Lalime or Emery. Again, it's impossible to tell whether Hasek is healthy, whether the Heatley-Hossa trade happens (and, if applicable, how Heatley does) and all the other variables but stacked teams always have to be considered.

There's obviously no good answer to this topic, but the Wings, Sens, Lightning, Devils and Flames would be my choice for contenders, but it's anyone's guess as to whether the Sabres or Canes emerge early, whether the Leafs or Avs fall off then, what happens with the Sharks or the Bruins, etc. Even with some gift of hindsight I don't think we're much better off picking the winner for 2004-2005 then we are picking the winner for 2011-2012.

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Old
09-04-2011, 10:07 PM
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Ottawa or Detroit.

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09-04-2011, 11:23 PM
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Probably Philadelphia

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Old
09-04-2011, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Everyone is picking the Sens huh? Why? I think the better choice is Tampa Bay. For starters, they had the experience from 2004. Richards, Lecavalier and St. Louis are in their primes. They don't likely loose Khabibulin meaning the main piece they lost in 2005 (goalie) is still there.

Ottawa were perennial chokers. Alfredsson guaranteed a Cup win and they lost in the first round in 2004. I would honestly pick Toronto over Ottawa since they always had the Sens number and you get the feeling something, somewhere, somehow would screw up for them. Maybe Hasek puts them over the top, or maybe he's 40 years old and can't.

Detroit isn't a bad choice, but they were as old as sin by then. Yzerman, Shanahan were old. They still had pieces in place and they would do what they always did and get over 100 points and win the division, but Detroit often did one of two things. They either won the Cup, or they wouldn't look good when they lost. Case in point, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2006. They had some no-shows in the postseason let's not forget, it just gets clouded a bit because they won the Cup often enough to compensate for it.

Tampa is my pick again.
Ottawa had really bad performances from Lalime in 2004 and Emery in 2006. There's no guarantee Hasek stays healthy, but he made a big difference when he played for them.

Tampa had a lot go right for them in 2004, like staying completely healthy the entire year. They would have been more likely to miss the playoffs than win it all again in 2005, IMO, especially with a short summer. They weren't that good in 2006.

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Old
09-05-2011, 01:25 PM
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Hasek would have made a HUGE difference for Ottawa in 2005 (and 2006 playoffs if healthy). In 06, Ottawa lost in five to Buffalo, but three of those were in overtime. Think of game one, a 7-6 Buffalo win, theres no way Hasek implodes like that. In the three overtime losses, Emery faced four shots in the extra period, saving one. With Hasek that doesn't happen.

A healthy Hasek is a huge improvement over Lalime and Emery, and he was out to prove that he wasn't washed up. If everything worked out, its not hard to imagine that Ottawa could have had back-to-back cups in 05 and 06.

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09-05-2011, 02:14 PM
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I think Calgary would have had a solid chance. The year after the lock out Kipper won the Vezina and Iginla had 96 points in 70 games. Its too bad Iggy got robbed a season in his prime, he could be 50 goals closer to 500 in his career.

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Old
09-05-2011, 02:35 PM
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I always thought Patrick Lalime got too much unfair blame from the Ottawa media and fans after the loss to Toronto in '04. Yes, he let in a couple of bad goals in Game 7. That doesn't change the fact that in the 4 games Ottawa lost, their high-powered offence scored a grand total of one goal. No goalie, not even Hasek, can be expected to win in a situation like that.

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09-05-2011, 04:11 PM
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04/05 would be the year Cloutier got his game to the playoffs.

Vancouver makes the Final that year.

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Old
09-06-2011, 12:28 PM
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I always thought Patrick Lalime got too much unfair blame from the Ottawa media and fans after the loss to Toronto in '04. Yes, he let in a couple of bad goals in Game 7. That doesn't change the fact that in the 4 games Ottawa lost, their high-powered offence scored a grand total of one goal. No goalie, not even Hasek, can be expected to win in a situation like that.
The problem with Lalime is the team never seemed very confident when he was in net. Toronto scored the first goal in EVERY game in the 2004 series, and in pre-lockout playoff hockey, that was a huge hole for the Sens to come of. After taking the 1-0 lead, Toronto would switch off the offense and try to trap their way to a victory, which worked well enough to win the series. Toronto also had stellar goaltending when needed, as Belfour made Lalime look like an ECHLer in the Leafs wins.

Also, despite their goal scoring issues, Jacques Martin continued to bench Spezza, giving Todd White and Radek Bonk all the icetime they wanted despite having horrible seasons and doing nothing in the playoffs.

In 2004-05, they would've had Murray and Hasek, two big improvements in important areas. Enough to win the Cup? Too bad we'll never know...

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Old
09-06-2011, 12:38 PM
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Really tough to say.

I think Tampa could have repeated. They still had their whole team in tact, sans Jassen Cullimore.

New Jersey would have been really strong too with a healthy Scott Stevens.

I also think Ottawa and Colorado would have been strong contenders too. I guess you could throw Philly, Toronto, and Calgary in there for good measure.

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Old
09-06-2011, 12:47 PM
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..Very interesting takes on a phantom season...

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