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Old
09-03-2011, 04:04 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Yeah Streit is awesome, so what.lol. If he gets injured this year he'll be worth a 2nd next year as a "rental"(see Hemsky, Ales).lol jk.

He doesn't have any serios consistency issues, every player goes through slumps, Gilbert does so less often than most IMO. He is an excellent positional defenseman, every d-man is out of position sometimes, his defensive woes are limited to lack of physicality, and turnovers. Both are exaggerated, not all effective d-men are physical types, and he handles the puck alot. I don't even think most Gilbert haters would say he's positionaly weak, thats an area of strength for him. I respect your position, but i think your somewhat misinformed on Gilbert's areas of weakness, and your underrating him for the reasons I mentioned in comments 46+47.
Maybe, but do you really feel that Gilbert is on the Same level as Whitney? because I really dont, that difference is what makes him a second pairing guy

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Old
09-03-2011, 04:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
Maybe, but do you really feel that Gilbert is on the Same level as Whitney? because I really dont, that difference is what makes him a second pairing guy
Again i don't see what that has to do with Gilbert. But there isn't a huge divide IMO, Whitney is better but he is more injury prone, and Gilbert did outperform him in his 19 games in 2010. Remember Gilbert is just two years removed from a 45 point season, and Whitney before last was moved by Anaheim for underperforming. Last year, Whitney was having a career, almost god-like year, and if he continued at his pace he would have been in serious contention for a Norris. However, part of this had to do with Gilbert taking on a very tough role as well on the 2nd pairing(e.g Staal makes Crosby and Malkin better). Many if not most top pairing d-man never get considered in that light(Norris). I agree he is idealy a player who anchors the 2nd pairing, but where do you draw that line between #2,3,4 d-man? I'd say if he is a 2nd pairing d-man it's of the high end variety. How many defenseman in the league can put up 45 points one year, and the next be effective (not excellent) as a shutdown defenseman. 2-way d-man like that are very rare in my experience.

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Old
09-03-2011, 05:09 PM
  #53
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Whitney over Gilbert every day of the week unless you are talking about durability alone.

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Old
09-03-2011, 05:16 PM
  #54
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Whitney over Gilbert every day of the week unless you are talking about durability alone.
No ****.

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Old
09-03-2011, 05:49 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
No ****.
No crap, is what that's meant to say.lol. I don't doubt that at all, but durability does matter when assesing value.

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Old
09-04-2011, 02:13 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
what would it take for the isles to get tom gilbert, ryan whitney or both from the oilers?

i think that the untouchables for the isles would be
tavares
okposo
grabner
streit
hamonic
macdonald


bailey and isles first in 2012


gilbert whitney and oilers 3rd in 2012

fair value?
from what i have heard... think... gilbert isnt worth much and could be had for around a second if edmonton decides to move him. i think he is overpaid for what he gives the oilers and this hurts his value

on the other hand whitney plays 25+ mins of outstanding hockey for the team... hes an untouchable until proven otherwise. expect to pay in order to get

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Old
09-04-2011, 02:50 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
from what i have heard... think... gilbert isnt worth much and could be had for around a second if edmonton decides to move him. i think he is overpaid for what he gives the oilers and this hurts his value

on the other hand whitney plays 25+ mins of outstanding hockey for the team... hes an untouchable until proven otherwise. expect to pay in order to get
Read all my posts, Lowetide, and Copper&Blue and you'll see where my argument is coming from. Gilbert plays 25 minutes a night against the other teams best. Considering he was -14, and if you take away a 4 game stretch from Khabibulin in which he let in 27 goals and he was -11, then he was -3 for 75 out of 79 games on the worst team in the league, with the worst goalie, in the hardest circumstances while playing a role thats not to his strengths. He also had the best RelCorsi on the team, and every defenseman, other than Strudwick(they were paired together on that -11 run), on the team had a better scoring chance with him than without. IMO that's a very significant consideration.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/11/2...ng-chance-wowy
Also, 14 of the 19 forwards were better with Gilbert on the ice by this same metric.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/5/26...nces-2010-2011

Before the Oilers became putrid he put up 45 points in slightly less difficult circumstances, and his D partner(Souray) had the best season of his career. I'm far from the only one who thinks he's excellent. I really don't think he's overpaid, look at other top 4 d-men that have been on the market and see what they got. If Edmonton traded him for a 2nd i'd be very pissed off, and i don't think i'm the only one.

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Old
09-04-2011, 09:43 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Read all my posts, Lowetide, and Copper&Blue and you'll see where my argument is coming from. Gilbert plays 25 minutes a night against the other teams best. Considering he was -14, and if you take away a 4 game stretch from Khabibulin in which he let in 27 goals and he was -11, then he was -3 for 75 out of 79 games on the worst team in the league, with the worst goalie, in the hardest circumstances while playing a role thats not to his strengths. He also had the best RelCorsi on the team, and every defenseman, other than Strudwick(they were paired together on that -11 run), on the team had a better scoring chance with him than without. IMO that's a very significant consideration.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/11/2...ng-chance-wowy
Also, 14 of the 19 forwards were better with Gilbert on the ice by this same metric.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/5/26...nces-2010-2011

Before the Oilers became putrid he put up 45 points in slightly less difficult circumstances, and his D partner(Souray) had the best season of his career. I'm far from the only one who thinks he's excellent. I really don't think he's overpaid, look at other top 4 d-men that have been on the market and see what they got. If Edmonton traded him for a 2nd i'd be very pissed off, and i don't think i'm the only one.
He had the best RelCorsi?

Oh, well, that changes everything!

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Old
09-04-2011, 01:38 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He had the best RelCorsi?

Oh, well, that changes everything!
I saw some of your othe posts and i'm glad you disagee. You ignored everything i wrote other than one comment, that doesn't qualify as a reasonable rebuttal.

So scoring chances don't matter either? Tom Renney said it was the most important stat he looked at.

How about Quality of Competition? You don't think theres a difference in playing most of your minutes against Datsuyk vs Eaves? We all know coaches hardmatch their D against forwards, so if it's not Gilbert getting those minutes, who is?

How about traditional boxcars? -14 on a -76 team, and playing 25 minutes against tough comp. is very good. Nevermind -11 of that came from 4 consecutive Khabibulin starts in which he let in 27 goals, and was immediately after placed on the IR.

Everything i've ever seen, nevermid stats, suggests to me that he's a very good player. He makes plays all over the ice, eats pucks on the boards, blocks shots, and moves the puck up the ice more than anyone (possibly other than Whitney). Excellent passser, excellent skater, great positionaly, great size, great stick, in his prime, durable, but he doesn't hit all the time and sometimes turns it over so we should get rid of him for 10 cents on the dollar. When you handle the puck alot, and do so against top tier players it's going to get turned over. Look at the league leaders for givaways, do you think Doughty is awful too?

Though i will give credit where it's due, and give props for your username an avatar. Thats my all time favorite TPB line.

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Old
09-04-2011, 01:43 PM
  #60
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Gilbert gets way too much crap on this board. He is not even close to as bad as most say he is.
He is a very reliable second pairing defenseman who can make a pass, skate and given the opportunity can put some points on the powerplay as a second pairing guy.
Even his salary at 4 mil is not a huge overpayment if it is an overpayment at all when you consider the minutes he plays and the durability he has. He is worth 20 plus minutes of reliability every game. I'll take that over a great defenseman that is there half the time.

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Old
09-04-2011, 03:36 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
from what i have heard... think... gilbert isnt worth much and could be had for around a second if edmonton decides to move him. i think he is overpaid for what he gives the oilers and this hurts his value

on the other hand whitney plays 25+ mins of outstanding hockey for the team... hes an untouchable until proven otherwise. expect to pay in order to get
This^^^

thats my perception, though Eskimo gives me reason to look again

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Old
09-04-2011, 09:30 PM
  #62
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
This^^^

thats my perception, though Eskimo gives me reason to look again
One thing to remeber Mike, is here in Edmonton we've ran out a lot of solid NHLers for not being perfect. The dynasty Oilers seemed to spoil alot of us fans. In the time i've been watching Hockey i can recall numerous good players we've ran out of town for no good reason. Arnott, Poti, Pitkanen, Stoll & Greene to an extent, and now maybe Gagner and Gilbert. And that's just off the top of my head.lol

Yet oddly enough we have significant portions of the fanbase that revere players like Steve "i'm a terrible hockey player" MacIntyre, and Rob Schremp. It's weird to say the least.lol

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Old
09-05-2011, 09:05 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Edmonton is in no position to move any of their dmen.

I would be interested in trading both Gilbert and Whitney.

Gilbert sucks and Whitney is a band aid.
How? He had one really bad, unlucky injury last year and missed half a season in 08-09. He played over 82% of the games every other season. Not to mention he's only 28.


Last edited by I3ig13ig: 09-05-2011 at 09:08 AM. Reason: More specific timeline
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