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Old
09-03-2011, 07:19 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
MPS > Kadri in speed, strength, awareness, essentially every aspect of defensive play. Kadri has the edge in offensive vision, but as we are seeing with Sam Gagner, that only makes up for so much. MPS > Kadri quite easily at this point.
You do realize that both Gagner and Kadri are excellent young scorers, and offensive vision is the most valuable skill a player can have? Do you really think alot of players in the past 10 years have scored at a 50 point pace as a 21 year old? How about 20 year old's scoring a ppg in the AHL, do you think that's common? What they've accomplished so far is excellent and it's nothing to refence as a negative. Very few offensive players are good defensive players in their early 20's, just ask H.Sedin. Kadri and Gagner could both easily be better than Paajarvi based on their offensive talents alone. I do think Paajarvi has alot of untappped potential, and would keep him over Kadri. But that may be largley due to personal bias and team need.

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09-03-2011, 07:20 PM
  #52
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Me: "Cool, trade proposal. Let's see what someone has come up with this time." I read the topic. "Leafs trade? RUN FOR YOUR LIVES"

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09-03-2011, 07:22 PM
  #53
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thats like Mckegg and a 3rd for Paajarvi

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Old
09-03-2011, 07:43 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
so MPS is bigger than crobsy whats your point........

MPS>kadri in speed

kadri wins in pretty much everything else, please explain how MPS has a better shot...

your points are pathetic.
MPS is a way better defensive player. Whose shot is better is debatable. Kadri definitely has the better hands and offensive creativity. So its the bigger, stronger, faster 2 way player vs the slick puck handling playmaker. All we can do is wait and watch. But currently, you'd have to drop the bias and agree MPS has had the better showing. Slightly better ppg avg and stuck for a full year in the NHL. 2 World Championship appearances where he has put up 16pts in 18 games. That's good enough for me.

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Old
09-03-2011, 07:44 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
a point per game in AHL>>>a point per game in WHL
The fair comparison would be:
---------------Games Go. As. Pts. PIM +/-
Kadri @ 19: -OHL 56--35--58---93--105--26
Pitlick @ 19: WHL 56--27--35---62---31--4

Then you would have to look at league scoring rates, % of team offence, special team minutes relative to production, and any career/production impacting injuries or events(such as changing leagues). Then look at the scouting reports to identify intangiables and potential, and after that address the likelihood of them reaching their potential. I agree Kadri is better, but comparing his 20 year old season to Pitlick's 19 and ignoring all other relevant data isn't a very good, or fair argument.

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Old
09-03-2011, 07:52 PM
  #56
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i love when people use the laugh captions to hide how made they are. MPS was passed on by teams for a reason. Kadri has yet to play a full NHL season. Just let the year play out and ill sure bump this thread.

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Old
09-03-2011, 07:53 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
MPS is a way better defensive player. Whose shot is better is debatable. Kadri definitely has the better hands and offensive creativity. So its the bigger, stronger, faster 2 way player vs the slick puck handling playmaker. All we can do is wait and watch. But currently, you'd have to drop the bias and agree MPS has had the better showing. Slightly better ppg avg and stuck for a full year in the NHL. 2 World Championship appearances where he has put up 16pts in 18 games. That's good enough for me.
colton orr wins.
It all depends on how someone uses his strength now kulie uses his strength greatly, from what i have seen MPS has alot of improvement on that.

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09-03-2011, 08:06 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
i love when people use the laugh captions to hide how made they are. MPS was passed on by teams for a reason. Kadri has yet to play a full NHL season. Just let the year play out and ill sure bump this thread.
And Bailey was chosen before Myers and Karlsson the year before... Go ask Buffalo and Ottawa fans who they'd rather have. Draft position doesn't mean much. Especially when we're talking about 7th vs 10th

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09-03-2011, 08:08 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smytty 94 View Post
And Bailey was chosen before Myers and Karlsson the year before... Go ask Buffalo and Ottawa fans who they'd rather have. Draft position doesn't mean much. Especially when we're talking about 7th vs 10th
myers has proven something.... wtf has MPS proven..

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09-03-2011, 08:13 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
myers has proven something.... wtf has MPS proven..
That he's better than Kadri.

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09-03-2011, 08:13 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
The fair comparison would be:
---------------Games Go. As. Pts. PIM +/-
Kadri @ 19: -OHL 56--35--58---93--105--26
Pitlick @ 19: WHL 56--27--35---62---31--4

Then you would have to look at league scoring rates, % of team offence, special team minutes relative to production, and any career/production impacting injuries or events(such as changing leagues). Then look at the scouting reports to identify intangiables and potential, and after that address the likelihood of them reaching their potential. I agree Kadri is better, but comparing his 20 year old season to Pitlick's 19 and ignoring all other relevant data isn't a very good, or fair argument.
To be fair one must also keep in mind goals and points aren't as easy to come by in the WHL. The OHL is more offensive driven and as such tends to skew points higher for offensive players. Think guys like Kane, Stamkos...and also guys like Gagner have higher totals with the system. The WHL is more defensive and tends to bring out different players; harder edged gritty types but still talented. Even comparing top names from the WHL like Iginla, Shane Doan, Ryan Smyth they just play a different game. Young guys like Eberle also show similar traits and point totals despite smaller frames.

Shouldn't directly compare Kadri's OHL play to Pitlick's WHL.

That being said neither team does the trade. Toronto needs their top 6 prospects and Edmonton really doesn't need top 6 unless it's a 1st line center. WE need more Pitlicks to round out the bottom 6 with defensive play more than a prospect who would at best be competeing for 4th line LW on the Oilers this year. The Oil just have too much faith in MSP to put him on the 4th unless earned.

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Old
09-03-2011, 08:14 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
myers has proven something.... wtf has MPS proven..
Well you've just proven you know nothing about PRV...

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Old
09-03-2011, 08:15 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
myers has proven something.... wtf has MPS proven..
More than Kadri.lol. Your point about draft position is a straw man argument and ridiculous to say the least.

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Old
09-03-2011, 08:18 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
More than Kadri.lol. Your point about draft position is a straw man argument and ridiculous to say the least.
kadri has much more potential, kadri has also not given the chance to play a full season, let alone NHL linemates

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Old
09-03-2011, 08:22 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
myers has proven something.... wtf has MPS proven..
More than Kadri. A lot more. Leaf fans are still fuming over the 2009 draft where everyone of them were begging Burke to draft MPS. The rage that followed after he called out Kadri is very lol-worthy.

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Old
09-03-2011, 08:24 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
To be fair one must also keep in mind goals and points aren't as easy to come by in the WHL. The OHL is more offensive driven and as such tends to skew points higher for offensive players. Think guys like Kane, Stamkos...and also guys like Gagner have higher totals with the system. The WHL is more defensive and tends to bring out different players; harder edged gritty types but still talented. Even comparing top names from the WHL like Iginla, Shane Doan, Ryan Smyth they just play a different game. Young guys like Eberle also show similar traits and point totals despite smaller frames.

Shouldn't directly compare Kadri's OHL play to Pitlick's WHL.

That being said neither team does the trade. Toronto needs their top 6 prospects and Edmonton really doesn't need top 6 unless it's a 1st line center. WE need more Pitlicks to round out the bottom 6 with defensive play more than a prospect who would at best be competeing for 4th line LW on the Oilers this year. The Oil just have too much faith in MSP to put him on the 4th unless earned.
I'm not sure what your point of contention is.I agree completley, thats why i said you'd have to look at league scoring rates, and % of team offense in terms of comparing results from the leagues. And in terms of styles, that's why i refrenced the importance of intangiables and scouting reports. There is no perfect comparison, but that's the closest to fair i can think of. What would be a fairer comparison in your opinion? And you make the exact same point in your 2nd paragraph i made earlier. Well done sir.

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Old
09-03-2011, 08:34 PM
  #67
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Let's have this MPS - Kadri discussion next off-season when Kadri gets 80 games in the NHL.

Comparing them at this point is stupid.

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09-03-2011, 08:34 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
kadri has much more potential, kadri has also not given the chance to play a full season, let alone NHL linemates
What makes you say he has more potential? Paajarvi was rated higher going into the draft, has performed very well at the WC, and Kadri had an NHL equivalncy of 38 in the AHL, and averaged 34 points in the NHL, compared to Paajarvi's 34 actual points. Where is this great offensive difference? Believe me Paajarvi wasn't handed top linemates during the year, i highly doubt Kadri was given tougher minutes or worse teammates than him in his NHL time. And the consider unlike Paajarvi, Kadri is a pure offensive player. Paajarvi has only been a forward for 4 years, if anyone has untapped potential i'd argue it's Paajarvi. I don't know who will be better, just that you make terrible arguments, and you don't know either.

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09-03-2011, 08:57 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
What makes you say he has more potential? Paajarvi was rated higher going into the draft, has performed very well at the WC, and Kadri had an NHL equivalncy of 38 in the AHL, and averaged 34 points in the NHL, compared to Paajarvi's 34 actual points. Where is this great offensive difference? Believe me Paajarvi wasn't handed top linemates during the year, i highly doubt Kadri was given tougher minutes or worse teammates than him in his NHL time. And the consider unlike Paajarvi, Kadri is a pure offensive player. Paajarvi has only been a forward for 4 years, if anyone has untapped potential i'd argue it's Paajarvi. I don't know who will be better, just that you make terrible arguments, and you don't know either.
your not even making arguments, all your doing is making assumptions, and im sure MPS has better line mates than boyce and crabb.
cant wait to bump this thread later on.

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Old
09-03-2011, 09:04 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
your not even making arguments, all your doing is making assumptions, and im sure MPS has better line mates than boyce and crabb.
cant wait to bump this thread later on.
Heard this last year before the season started in every Toronto-Edmonton or Kadri-MPS thread and nothing has been bumped. Why? Because Kadri hasn't done anything in the NHL. Paajarvi actually made it and had a decent rookie season while adjusting to the smaller rink. Kadri couldn't even beat out the likes of Tim Brent.

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Old
09-03-2011, 09:12 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehta View Post
Heard this last year before the season started in every Toronto-Edmonton or Kadri-MPS thread and nothing has been bumped. Why? Because Kadri hasn't done anything in the NHL. Paajarvi actually made it and had a decent rookie season while adjusting to the smaller rink. Kadri couldn't even beat out the likes of Tim Brent.
Sure Paajarvi actually made and score 15 goals correct? That's great and all but not mind blowing...
Burke stated that Kadri would not play with the Leafs unless he was a top 6 player. No, he did not beat out anyone of our top sixers. Kadri could have easily had a spot on the third line but Burke kept him in the AHL for development.

Not the first time Burkie has done this, ALALA Bobby Ryan.

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Old
09-03-2011, 09:16 PM
  #72
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Omark....he's proven he can score in the NHL. Dominated the AHL...

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Old
09-03-2011, 09:19 PM
  #73
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Sure Paajarvi actually made and score 15 goals correct? That's great and all but not mind blowing...
Burke stated that Kadri would not play with the Leafs unless he was a top 6 player. No, he did not beat out anyone of our top sixers. Kadri could have easily had a spot on the third line but Burke kept him in the AHL for development.

Not the first time Burkie has done this, ALALA Bobby Ryan.
Paajarvi can play defense too...that's the big difference....he's great defensively. So you can play him up and down the lineup. I have no interest in Kadri at this point. Until he proves he can play in a top six role that I guess is the only role that suits him. Kadri may just take a little more time to put on the weight alot like a lot of our prospects.

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Old
09-03-2011, 09:22 PM
  #74
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Sure Paajarvi actually made and score 15 goals correct? That's great and all but not mind blowing...
Burke stated that Kadri would not play with the Leafs unless he was a top 6 player. No, he did not beat out anyone of our top sixers. Kadri could have easily had a spot on the third line but Burke kept him in the AHL for development.

Not the first time Burkie has done this, ALALA Bobby Ryan.
15 goals considering how bad our team was with limited powerplay time was actually impressive. He started to get powerplay minutes as soon as Hall and co. went down. He then started to breakout and proved that he can be a player that can play on the point.

Fair enough, I agree that he wasn't going to beat anybody out in your top 6 this year but how do you explain the fact that when he got called up, played 17 games only to get sent down again? Paajarvi even when he wasn't scoring played great defensively and drew penalties. There is a reason why he sticked with the club for the whole year.

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Old
09-03-2011, 09:44 PM
  #75
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[QUOTE=Mehta;36421529]15 goals considering how bad our team was with limited powerplay time was actually impressive. He started to get powerplay minutes as soon as Hall and co. went down. He then started to breakout and proved that he can be a player that can play on the point.

Fair enough, I agree that he wasn't going to beat anybody out in your top 6 this year but how do you explain the fact that when he got called up, played 17 games only to get sent down again? Paajarvi even when he wasn't scoring played great defensively and drew penalties. There is a reason why he sticked with the club for the whole year.[/QUOTE]



because the oilers have one of the worst forward core in the league?

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