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Old
10-04-2014, 11:07 PM
  #1
Cable
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Defenceman Overhaul

What moves this year can we make to overhaul our defense while still remaining competitive until our young defenceman can earn a spot in the NHL?

For the most part, I've watched almost every preseason game we had and I'm baffled at how bad Coburn, Schultz, Grossmann are on a game-by-game basis. In fact, it doesn't even matter who they're paired with either. However, I'm extremely happy Del Zotto and Schenn have played well together thus far. I hope that continues into the regular season, and can Berube please put Streit and MacDonald back together. They make for a nice #1 or #2 pairing depending on how you view our roster.

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10-04-2014, 11:38 PM
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Cyborg LeClair
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I think we're stuck with our defense until Ghost is ready to come up and Hextall can get someone to take Grossmann, MDZ, or Schultz

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10-04-2014, 11:40 PM
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PALE PWNR
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None we ride it out untilt he prospects are ready to go then think about moves. Grossmann is first to go, then MacDonald

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10-04-2014, 11:47 PM
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LegionOfDoom91
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Schultz is a 7th defensmen he's literally a non factor in any type of overhaul.

Grossmann was solid this preseason unless you're docking him for things he could never do (anything offensive).

Del Zotto was solid last game but was pretty much terrible the rest of the preseason. If he can't improve he should be sent packing & Gostisbeher should replace him.

Coburn & MacDonald were pretty awful this preseason but both are terrible together & play better when away from each other.

Streit was good while Schenn was solid this preseason really not many complaints with those two.

Hextall should really consider swapping out Del Zotto & Gostisbehere dependent on both's play. Grossmann & Alt could be a similar scenario as well.

However for now they should just stay the course & run with this:

Grossmann - Coburn
MacDonald - Streit
Del Zotto - Schenn
Schultz


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 10-04-2014 at 11:59 PM.
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Old
10-05-2014, 01:29 AM
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This year there isnt much we can do. Del Zotto and Schultz will be gone next summer, which really accomplishes nothing, but hopefully Hextall can find a taker for Grossmann and/or MacDonald (probably not). Coburn is another guy I would love to see moved, but I doubt it happens.

All we can hope for this year is that Ghost, Hagg and Alt (Morin/Sanheim) all continue their development to the point where maybe we'll see them a some point this year. Would love to see Ghost take Del Zotto's spot in the line-up in a few months


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Old
10-05-2014, 02:01 AM
  #6
Ryker
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McKenzie said a couple of days ago we might be trying to move a defenseman, though, right? I think Schenn and Grossman were mentioned.

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10-05-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
McKenzie said a couple of days ago we might be trying to move a defenseman, though, right? I think Schenn and Grossman were mentioned.
yes, but he also thought that because he said Morin was staying with the club

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10-05-2014, 10:02 AM
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It's a complicated situation with the defense. I believe that going into next season, there's only going to be two guys who they absolutely will not move - Coburn (who can be a rock IF they use him in a strictly defensive role and he doesn't have to carry the puck out of the defensive zone) and Streit (he's still one of the better power play defenders in the league). I'm not sure Luke Schenn lasts the season in Philadelphia and I think Hextall will try to move Grossmann and MacDonald, but he's either going to have eat some of their salary or he's going to have to take a bad contract in return. If Del Zotto stinks up the joint, then he'll probably be sent packing (gut feeling says that he's probably going to have a decent year and will probably sign a three or four year extension a la Mason).

I think what we'll probably end up seeing is a guy like Schenn getting moved during the year and the Flyers calling up a guy like Alt to fill his spot.

After wards, I think a guy like Grossmann gets sent packing in the off season when he only has one more year left on his deal and the Flyers can open a spot for Gostisbehere. He immediately moves up to the top pairing with Coburn next season. As for Morin, I think he'll get the AHL treatment while Hextall decides what to do with MacDonald. In the mean time, MacDonald probably goes back to playing with Streit and then once MacDonald is moved, you can partner Morin with Streit. So, it's possible that at the end of the 2015 - 2016 season, the defense looks like this:

Gostisbehere - Coburn
Morin - Streit
Del Zotto - Alt

As for Hagg, I don't think we'll see him until the middle of the 2015 - 2016 season. There's still some work that needs to be done there and this year is going to be a very big year for him in terms of development. Do I think he can have a big year in Lehigh? Absolutely. Murray really liked what he saw out of the 10 game trial last season and I think he's going to be Murray's pet project this year (similar to Alt last season).

The biggest thing is whether or not the team is going to patient with all the young guys in the line up. If they are, this could really pay off (especially when you consider that Sanheim and Hagg aren't even in the lineup and it's possible a guy like Friedman ends up developing into a potential NHL defenseman at Bowling Green).

The next few years should be interesting to say the least.

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10-05-2014, 10:20 AM
  #9
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I have made it well known that I am all for a retooling of the defense. Some around here say that it's a "losers mentality" because I don't mind taking a bad year in order for our management team to make moves to make this team a actual competitor. I understand the people wanting to keep Coburn and his meaning to this blueline but if we are terrible(like I think we will be strictly because of our defense) then I wouldn't mind exploring the market for him. Teams like Colorado/Edmonton/San Jose who I think will struggle, are reportedly looking for a top 4(like every team) and I think they could get a nice haul for him.

I actually think Andrew MacDonald holds more value around here then most. He was the number 1 target by a lot of teams at the deadline last year for a reason. His gap control needs to tighten up and the zone entries will start to get better. Will they though?

At the deadline, Douglas Murray gives you 2 2nd rounders, Grossmann to the right team could get you a late 2nd and maybe even a later pick as well. At the deadline defenders become a premium and the cost are expensive. Luke Schenn is the wild card, I have no clue what his value is lol

My prediction, Flyers struggle and trade Grossmann and Del Zotto for picks and allow the young guns to get some playing time around the late part of the season. During the off season, we trade for Evander Kane(reportedly very close to getting him) with Schenn's+a pick we get from our previous trades. It won't be a first though, I think Kane doesn't hold as much value as Winnipeg fans think though. I know they say they won't need a righty up there but Potsma is a free agent and maybe there is a bigger deal to make? Flyers are always interested in Bogo as well. I think these teams match up well for a trade in the off season. I know it's a little far down the road though.

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10-05-2014, 10:26 AM
  #10
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Replying to no one: Problem is, they need bodies until the prospects are ready. Coburn is a workhorse and 82 games is not a junior schedule. Meanwhile, the forward's primes tick tock away.

Tough decision on how soon to bring them up. If Laughton, Hagg, and Ghost handle the AHL -- I'd expect Laughton is up next season along with Ghost or Hagg - not sure if both. Morin may need even more seasoning to easy into the mental and physical workload. The organization has given some evidence they don't like running too many inexperienced rookies on the backend. That is, if you take the tradition of an old coot defenseman in the press box over a tweener as evidence for that. I'm just not sure they'd roll out two rookie defensemen at the same time.

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10-05-2014, 10:37 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCWombBroom View Post
Replying to no one: Problem is, they need bodies until the prospects are ready. Coburn is a workhorse and 82 games is not a junior schedule. Meanwhile, the forward's primes tick tock away.

Tough decision on how soon to bring them up. If Laughton, Hagg, and Ghost handle the AHL -- I'd expect Laughton is up next season along with Ghost or Hagg - not sure if both. Morin may need even more seasoning to easy into the mental and physical workload. The organization has given some evidence they don't like running too many inexperienced rookies on the backend. That is, if you take the tradition of an old coot defenseman in the press box over a tweener as evidence for that. I'm just not sure they'd roll out two rookie defensemen at the same time.
I think Hextall has brought a new way of thinking towards our team. I understand the hesitation of putting Ghost and Morin in the lineup next year but I think the only way Morin doesn't make the team next year is if he is injured or has an absolutely terrible camp. Ghost will be seeing time this year most likely if not early when an injury happens. He is preaching patience but they might need to be in the NHL for their development next year.

Giroux plays a game that he can maintain his production till later in his prime too. Even if he let's up some in the future, 70 point seasons are great as well, we just need his production to be replaced by someone.

The one reason I can see Coburn and Streit staying is to mentor the kids. Ghost can pair with Coburn and Morin with Streit. Or throw them both together as we have seen teams are doing a little more and more with younger defenders.

It's just going to be an interesting year, can't wait to see it all unfold. Good or bad I am sure we will all be here to complain about something haha.

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10-05-2014, 11:04 AM
  #12
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I can make a real quick fix, don't play Coburn and A Mac together.

We are already better

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10-05-2014, 06:20 PM
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HighOFFHockey
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I would go with this for opening Night:
B.Schenn - G - Voracek
Umberger - Coturier - Read
Raffl - Lacavalier - Akenson
Rinaldo - Bellmare - Jones

A.Mac - Streit
Grossman - Coburn
Del Zotto - Luke Schenn


Most likely scenario:
B.Schenn - G - Voracek
Raffl - Lacavalier - Umberger
Read - Coturier - Jones
Rinaldo - Bellmare - Akenson

Grossman - Streit
A.Mac- Coburn
Del Zotto - Luke Schenn

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10-05-2014, 06:55 PM
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SgtJoseph
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This place really cracks me up at times ! All of this nonsense about the first to go should be Grossman is really crazy talk by folks who have not a clue about Hockey.......Grossman is an absolute gamer, the guy hits, blocks a ton of shots and he brings it each and very night even when hurt....Yes he " looked" bad at times last year, but it was due to his being banged up, hurt, in pain etc...He has looked pretty damn good during the pre season and i hope his injuries /surgery etc are all healed up and he is ready to have at it.........There are at least 2 or 3 others who will need to go before Nick !

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10-05-2014, 07:14 PM
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Grossman is an absolute gamer, the guy hits, blocks a ton of shots
Funny how his biggest strengths are elements of the game that take place without possession of the puck.

That said, if the next defender in line is Gostisbehere, Grossmann shouldn't be the first out of the lineup.

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10-05-2014, 07:24 PM
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This place really cracks me up at times ! All of this nonsense about the first to go should be Grossman is really crazy talk by folks who have not a clue about Hockey.......Grossman is an absolute gamer, the guy hits, blocks a ton of shots and he brings it each and very night even when hurt....Yes he " looked" bad at times last year, but it was due to his being banged up, hurt, in pain etc...He has looked pretty damn good during the pre season and i hope his injuries /surgery etc are all healed up and he is ready to have at it.........There are at least 2 or 3 others who will need to go before Nick !
I personally see it like this.

Ghost replaces MDZ
Hagg replaces Schenn
Morin replaces Grossmann
Sanheim replaces Streit
Alt replaces Schultz
Coburn is re-signed
MacD is moved whenever we can do it.

I was hoping MDZ would have a big rebound. That looks doubtful right now.
Schenn makes too much money to be bottom pairing. Either he takes a big paycut or move him. Like him though.
Grossmann has been a warrior, but he is going to keep breaking down
Streit is fine until he really drops.
Coburn...keep so we have done vet presence.
MacD..will be an anchor if we don't move him.

All moves we make should be with 2 years from now in mind....which I think Hextall has. No need to tank. See how this year plays out and then assess at the deadline.

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10-05-2014, 07:27 PM
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Question to everyone.

Would you play Hagg with Ghost in the AHL and then see if they build on chemistry to eventually be a pairing in the NHL next year?

This would also allow Morin to pair with Coburn in the future.

And then Sanheim can eventually replace Coburn on the top pair with Morin.

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10-05-2014, 07:44 PM
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LegionOfDoom91
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I don't think Hagg will be in the NHL anytime soon. I think he's behind Gostisbehere & Alt right now on the call up list for this year then next year you'll add Morin into the mix who might not be in the AHL for long if not at all. Hagg's also eligible to slide his contract this year if he doesn't pass the 9 game mark in the NHL.

I think Hagg, Sanheim, & the few other defensemen like Friedman get brought along slowly because of Morin, Gostisbehere, & Alt as well as what's currently on the big roster.

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10-05-2014, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
None we ride it out untilt he prospects are ready to go then think about moves. Grossmann is first to go, then MacDonald
I don't know how much I'd be looking to move MacDonald, I feel like it would be better to move Streit before his age catches up to him and use MacDonald's versatility to mold the defense as our prospects start to compete for spots.

Ideally, some combination of Morin, Ghost, Schenn, Hagg and Sanheim will make up our top 4 if they develop well. In the meantime, I'd like to hang onto Coburn, Mac and Schenn to let them fill out the top 4 as the prospects develop.

We can trade them as they become expendable, but the only one that would be worth risking by trading before he can be replaced is Coburn. He's getting older, but he's still got a lot of value. If the organization feels like Morin will be able to quickly assume that role, I could see him being moved as early as next season. Especially if Coburn keeps up the lackluster play.

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10-05-2014, 07:55 PM
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Question to everyone.

Would you play Hagg with Ghost in the AHL and then see if they build on chemistry to eventually be a pairing in the NHL next year?

This would also allow Morin to pair with Coburn in the future.

And then Sanheim can eventually replace Coburn on the top pair with Morin.
No. I think Gostisbehere is going to be a top pair or near top pair kind of guy. Hagg is probably closer to a bottom pair guy.

Honestly I think Morin/Gostisbehere compliment each other really well. I don't really like the idea of Morin with Coburn outside of a few shutdown situations. I think Sanheim and Coburn would be a nice combo.

But this is all just fantasy land at this point. As high of hopes I have for these kids, a lot can happen. Most of them are teenagers after all.

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10-05-2014, 07:57 PM
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I don't know how much I'd be looking to move MacDonald, I feel like it would be better to move Streit before his age catches up to him and use MacDonald's versatility to mold the defense as our prospects start to compete for spots.

Ideally, some combination of Morin, Ghost, Schenn, Hagg and Sanheim will make up our top 4 if they develop well. In the meantime, I'd like to hang onto Coburn, Mac and Schenn to let them fill out the top 4 as the prospects develop.

We can trade them as they become expendable, but the only one that would be worth risking by trading before he can be replaced is Coburn. He's getting older, but he's still got a lot of value. If the organization feels like Morin will be able to quickly assume that role, I could see him being moved as early as next season. Especially if Coburn keeps up the lackluster play.
One of those guys is not like the others.

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10-05-2014, 07:57 PM
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None we ride it out untilt he prospects are ready to go then think about moves. Grossmann is first to go, then MacDonald
MacD is 6 years, so I think they'll try to move that sooner rather than later. But, yea, riding out the guys now and waiting for the prospects is the way the organization is going to deal with this.

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10-05-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
One of those guys is not like the others.
Ehh.. Schenn's still young and I feel like he's still improving. I dont see why he can't be a #4 in the future. Just needs to cut down on his mistakes and work on his positioning a little more.

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10-05-2014, 08:29 PM
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Ehh.. Schenn's still young and I feel like he's still improving. I dont see why he can't be a #4 in the future. Just needs to cut down on his mistakes and work on his positioning a little more.
There's no upside to his game. What you see is what you get. If he can't crack our top 4 now, when will he ever?

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10-05-2014, 08:37 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
This place really cracks me up at times ! All of this nonsense about the first to go should be Grossman is really crazy talk by folks who have not a clue about Hockey.......Grossman is an absolute gamer, the guy hits, blocks a ton of shots and he brings it each and very night even when hurt....Yes he " looked" bad at times last year, but it was due to his being banged up, hurt, in pain etc...He has looked pretty damn good during the pre season and i hope his injuries /surgery etc are all healed up and he is ready to have at it.........There are at least 2 or 3 others who will need to go before Nick !
Yeah, he's been the whipping boy, it seems, and I also think that at this point he should be a lock on defense, at least on this team. Sure, we'll be able to replace him eventually, but now I don't see a better option for what he brings. Like hockeyfreak7 said, it also depends on who you're looking to bring up.

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