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hypothetical CAR trade proposal

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08-14-2004, 04:44 PM
  #1
moglesby
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hypothetical CAR trade proposal

TO CAR:
Pasi Nurminen

TO ATL:
Marty Murray
Mike Zigomanis
3rd/4th round pick

Any takers?

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08-14-2004, 04:50 PM
  #2
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Reasons for the trade:
Carolina needs a good starting goalie, Gerber hasn't come close to proving that he can handle a starting job. Nurminen proved last year that he is a solid starter and may be able to lead a team to the playoffs in the near future. Marty Murray is one of the hardest working players in the NHL, can score ~10 goals a season, and is very smart defensively. Zigomanis could become a 2nd/3rd line player. He doesn't want to stay in Carolina because he wants a NHL roster spot, he's never had a chance to prove what he can do. He could get that in ATL.

I know this trade would most likely never happen because Jim Ritherford thinks that Gerber is a starting goalie. Gerber may prove that he is a solid starter but at this point I don't trust him with the job.

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08-14-2004, 09:25 PM
  #3
Peter Sidorkiewicz
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This offer has real potential for Atlanta although the deal won't go ahead unless Hurme can prove that his health woes are behind him and is capable of returning to his strong play of a couple of seasons ago.

Murray would be a good fit on Atlanta's 4th line while I like the idea of Atlanta getting a scoring prospect. I'm personally not high on Zigomanis so I would subsitute him for Pavel Brendl. The 3rd round pick is good because Atlanta traded away it's 3rd round pick in 05 at the 04 draft.

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08-14-2004, 09:55 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz
I'm personally not high on Zigomanis so I would subsitute him for Pavel Brendl.
How could you even type that?

1) Hurme is over-rated, if anyone is waiting on his status then they are tools. Oops, sorry, Waddell.

2) Nurminen for a 3rd round pick. That's it, that's the list. Or Marty Murray and a 8th rounder.

3) I hate inter-division trades. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Swap Brendl instead of Zigomanis? Yeah, I needed a laugh.

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08-14-2004, 10:25 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHurricane16
1) Hurme is over-rated, if anyone is waiting on his status then they are tools. Oops, sorry, Waddell.
Wasn't Hurme taking plenty of starts from Luongo the last time he was healthy? Hurme has had a very respectable NHL career. The only issue with him is his health

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHurricane16
2) Nurminen for a 3rd round pick. That's it, that's the list.
He can get more than that, not much though. Inconsistency is a real problem with him.

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08-14-2004, 11:28 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHurricane16
How could you even type that?

1) Hurme is over-rated, if anyone is waiting on his status then they are tools. Oops, sorry, Waddell.

2) Nurminen for a 3rd round pick. That's it, that's the list. Or Marty Murray and a 8th rounder.

3) I hate inter-division trades. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Swap Brendl instead of Zigomanis? Yeah, I needed a laugh.
The Canes wouldn't really loose anything except for a 3rd round pick with this trade. Murray seems to have been replaced by Colin Forbes, and Zigo and the Canes are having trouble agreeing on a contract because he wants a chance at an NHL spot. And if Zigo did sign, it's not like JR would give him a decent chance in the NHL. ATL would be willing to give him the chance he deserves and I think he would reward them for it by earning a permanent NHL spot.

Hurme may be overrated but he has proved he is a decent NHL goalie and can dominate a game at times. I'm still mad at JR for keeping Storr instead of him. His only drawback is health. Lehtonen will be an all-star very soon. I think the tandem of Hurme/Lehtonen could hold the fort in ATL just fine.

IMO, it's a good trade for both sides. Swapping Brendl for Zigo wouldn't work though because Brendl is a natural goal scorer which is what the Canes desperately need.

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08-15-2004, 12:43 AM
  #7
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As was mentioned, inter-division trades are a rarity (and that might be a mild term).

Atlanta won't trade a goalie that could well very well start against them six times a year. Or another possibly significant player for that matter.

Not going against the value vs. value aspect of this possibility, just stating that it won't happen. Division rivals won't trade anything of consequence to each other.

That doesn't include the deal of Hurme for a 4th rounder; they snagged him knowing Atlanta wanted him. They got a free pick due to their position in the waiver draft. Smart move.

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08-15-2004, 10:04 AM
  #8
Kaiped Krusader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHurricane16
Swap Brendl instead of Zigomanis? Yeah, I needed a laugh.
Me too. Brendl is garbage. I don't want that guy anywhere near Atlanta. And I definitely don't want to trade Nurminen, a solid NHLer, for three pieces of Carolina refuse. Quantity does not make up for lack of quality.

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08-15-2004, 10:24 AM
  #9
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I hate threads like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moglesby
The Canes wouldn't really loose anything except for a 3rd round pick with this trade. Murray seems to have been replaced by Colin Forbes, and Zigo and the Canes are having trouble agreeing on a contract because he wants a chance at an NHL spot. And if Zigo did sign, it's not like JR would give him a decent chance in the NHL. ATL would be willing to give him the chance he deserves and I think he would reward them for it by earning a permanent NHL spot.
Still, you don't give away 2 players we don't need along with draft picks for this one particular goalie. Atlanta doesn't need Nurminem in your eyes, so don't you think there may be leverage there? Use the other assets in other trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by moglesby
Hurme may be overrated but he has proved he is a decent NHL goalie and can dominate a game at times. I'm still mad at JR for keeping Storr instead of him. His only drawback is health.
See, this is why he's over-rated. He hasn't proven he is a decent NHL goalie, one good year with Lalime is not what a consistent goalie makes. No goalies dominate games unless they are true superstars. Hurme is definitely not. Also, I don't think Hurme's health was ever a problem until last summer. Anyone know how he hurt his back yet, btw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moglesby
Swapping Brendl for Zigo wouldn't work though because Brendl is a natural goal scorer which is what the Canes desperately need.
No, it wouldn't work because Brendl can be a first line player in the NHL, Zigomanis is a first line player in the AHL.

Krusader, you've never seen Brendl play, obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by btn
He can get more than that, not much though. Inconsistency is a real problem with him.
How is a very inconsistent, 1-year starter garner more than a 3rd round pick? Let's examine:

- Roman Checkmanek traded to the Kings for a 2nd round pick (counterpoint: bad trade by Philly? Maybe, because they had 0 leverage due to the fact everyone in the world knew Clarke wanted to unload the guy).
- Patrick Lalime traded to the Blues for a conditional 4th round pick in 2005 (counterpoint: he was going to be a FA, but still)
- Mikka Kiprusoff traded to the Flames for a 2nd round pick in 2005 (counterpoint: sure he wasn't big then, but Nurminen is still no Kiprusoff)
- Tommy Salo traded to Colorado for 6th round pick (counterpoint: Salo probably had no real trade value. Nurminen doesn't either, but I digress)

This will be my last post on the matter. Like I said, I hate threads like this and I rarely read them. Since it involve the Canes I had to post.


Last edited by HughJass*: 08-15-2004 at 10:30 AM.
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08-15-2004, 01:37 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw7
As was mentioned, inter-division trades are a rarity (and that might be a mild term).

Atlanta won't trade a goalie that could well very well start against them six times a year. Or another possibly significant player for that matter.

Not going against the value vs. value aspect of this possibility, just stating that it won't happen. Division rivals won't trade anything of consequence to each other.

That doesn't include the deal of Hurme for a 4th rounder; they snagged him knowing Atlanta wanted him. They got a free pick due to their position in the waiver draft. Smart move.
I already said the trade wouldn't happen. I just wanted opinions on it.

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Old
08-15-2004, 06:39 PM
  #11
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiped Krusader
Me too. Brendl is garbage. I don't want that guy anywhere near Atlanta. And I definitely don't want to trade Nurminen, a solid NHLer, for three pieces of Carolina refuse. Quantity does not make up for lack of quality.
Brendl is far from garbage. In fact, he is a player Atlanta could probably use. He may stink of bust, but ask some Carolina fans who've seen him a lot more than I and they'll tell you that he showed many signs of coming around last season. As said by someone above, he has first line NHL potential while Zigomanis has first line AHL potential. He may not reach it, but Stefan might not either and I'm sure you won't be dumping him. Of course I know that Stefan has showed a whole lot more in his career so far, no disputing that, I'm just comparing two players with immense potential who've yet to live up to it.

Not saying the trade is good or not, but Brendl is 10x the asset Zigomanis is. He could give you guys some solid secondary scoring.

Now, I know Lehtonen isn't a sure thing yet but if I were the GM, perhaps after camp, I'd seriously consider a Nurminen for Brendl swap and ride Lehtonen/Hurme. Obviously I have a lot of faith that Lehtonen can handle the reigns this season.

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08-15-2004, 10:24 PM
  #12
Peter Sidorkiewicz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moglesby
IMO, it's a good trade for both sides. Swapping Brendl for Zigo wouldn't work though because Brendl is a natural goal scorer which is what the Canes desperately need.
Given Carolina has O'Neill, Cole, Vrbata, Williams and Ladd on the wings that would suggest that Brendl may be expendable. I still stand by my counter offer (Brendl + Murray + 3rd Round Pick). Nurminen is a great team guy and a good goaltender therefore I would be reluctant to let him go unless we get something fairly valuable. Brendl I still think can turn it around and show some of his junior hockey exploits in the right hockey environment.

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Old
08-16-2004, 01:34 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moglesby
I already said the trade wouldn't happen. I just wanted opinions on it.
I know this type of thing is a popular starting point for threads here, but I'm just one of the few who sees no value in it. Maybe its just me though. I'm up for discussing just about anything, but the premise of this just doesn't make sense to me.

Nothing personal at all. Maybe I shouldn't post when I'm a bit cranky.

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08-22-2004, 07:38 PM
  #14
moglesby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw7
I know this type of thing is a popular starting point for threads here, but I'm just one of the few who sees no value in it. Maybe its just me though. I'm up for discussing just about anything, but the premise of this just doesn't make sense to me.

Nothing personal at all. Maybe I shouldn't post when I'm a bit cranky.
I don't see the value in it either. I used to hate these trade threads. I just post random stuff when I'm bored.

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