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Old
09-05-2011, 12:33 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Hall
+ Dubnyk
+ MPS or Eberle
+ 1st round pick in 2012

That is the minimum I would accept.

Don't like it? Don't care.
LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO

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Old
09-05-2011, 12:55 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Mediocre rookie seasons?

Both scored more points on teams that were FAR WORSE than the Oilers were last season. The Sharks were a FIRST YEAR EXPANSION TEAM, and the Senators were only in their second season in the NHL. The reason why Daigle's rookie season looks so bad is because some guy named Alexei Yashin almost won the Calder that year on the strength of 30 goals and 79 points, which lead all rookies. Almost a point per game.

You're right about the downhill part, Daigle had a couple of OK seasons afterwards, but mediocre rookie seasons just shows that you didn't even bother to do the research.



I could care less about what position he was picked in, Daigle was the #1 overall pick in 93, and was far more hyped up than Hall was, having one of the most storied careers in junior hockey history in the last 20 years.



This upcoming season 35+ goals? Hey, I'm not rooting against Taylor Hall at all. I like the kid, but those are some lofty expectations on a very young Edmonton team.



I really think superstar status is harder to achieve. Think about how many Superstars have been drafted post-lockout.

06 - None. I wouldn't say Toews is a superstar yet. Close to it, yes. I don't like calling Backstrom a superstar as his numbers are a direct product of Ovechkin's play as evidenced this year.

07 - Kane.

08 - Stamkos and Doughty.

09 - None, but it's early. So far no one is a clear cut superstar, although signs point to Tavares and Duchene being Superstars soon. Hedman and Kane have outside shots.

10 - Hall didn't even have the best rookie season out of all of the 1st rounders in his draft year. Skinner leads that charge, and he looks like he's going to be an elite goal scorer for a long time. Fowler looks like he'll be a top point producing defenseman in this league for a while too, especially with the big 3 there long term in Anaheim. You might as well make it the Core 4.



Why? We have a core of great young defenders. Why give up assets for potential at another position when we have a glut of good young defensemen? Doesn't make sense. Especially when at center, we're stacked right now with Richards signed long term, Stepan at a cheap ELC deal, and Anisimov just resigned for cheap.



Dubnyk won't come close to what Lundqvist is.

Trade Lundqvist, and you kiss the cup goodbye. Dubnyk was drafted in 04 and still hasn't shown signs of being a good starting goaltender, nevermind a franchise goaltender, or being in any discussion involving these words... "best goaltender in the world".

I think you undervalue Lundqvist, completely, and horribly overrate potential.

Any team that needs a goaltender would take the deal you offered and run away laughing to the bank.
Your hilarious. The players your reffering to played in a far higher scoring era. Daigle only scored more because he played more games and he was a -45. And it's not like he was on a team that much worse than the Oilers. Falloon was -35 and scored more because he played more games. Considering Hall was lighting it up in his previous 30 or so games prior to getting injured i think its fair to say he would have probably passed, if not he would have at least came close to Falloons inflated totals.

Dubnyk didn't have a good year last year? That's news to me and every other Oiler fan.

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Old
09-05-2011, 02:07 AM
  #53
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Value is good but no way Rangers do it

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Old
09-05-2011, 02:33 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Value is good but no way Rangers do it
The Rangers wouldn't want any of those offered piece for Lundqvist and we have no immediate need to get rid of Wolski. The value is terrible.

Top 10 protected....scoff.....

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Old
09-05-2011, 02:40 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
The Rangers wouldn't want any of those offered piece for Lundqvist and we have no immediate need to get rid of Wolski. The value is terrible.

Top 10 protected....scoff.....
Yeah the Rangers wouldn't have use for any of Gagner, Hemsky, Peckham, Hartikainen, or a 1st. I really don't think there is a team in the league that could say that. I think any team would take at least one of them and probably all of them in an instant.

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09-05-2011, 02:41 AM
  #56
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Oh and i forgot Dubnyk. Possibly one of the better young stoppers in the league.

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Old
09-05-2011, 02:45 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Yeah the Rangers wouldn't have use for any of Gagner, Hemsky, Peckham, Hartikainen, or a 1st. I really don't think there is a team in the league that could say that. I think any team would take at least one of them and probably all of them in an instant.
The price for Lundqvist is a young RFA age top six forward, a first round pick and the teams top prospect.

What the hell would we want Gagner for? We're set up the middle. Hemsky is a UFA and made of glass, we already have a huge injury risk on our top line. We have no need for more D, or B-level prospects, and further more a 1st thats not even this years, but is also top 10 protected?

That package doesn't get you a top 3 goalie in the league. Not even close.

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09-05-2011, 02:49 AM
  #58
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Further more, the whole thing is a moot point. Lundqvist is untouchable to the Rangers.

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Old
09-05-2011, 03:02 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
The price for Lundqvist is a young RFA age top six forward, a first round pick and the teams top prospect.

What the hell would we want Gagner for? We're set up the middle. Hemsky is a UFA and made of glass, we already have a huge injury risk on our top line. We have no need for more D, or B-level prospects, and further more a 1st thats not even this years, but is also top 10 protected?

That package doesn't get you a top 3 goalie in the league. Not even close.
Oh, because you can't convert a player to the wing.lol. And you realize at all of one year older Gagner outscored Stepan by a considerable margin in terms of ppg. And he did last year too, and in his rookie season. Not saying he's better, just that you have to realize he is a very good young center. I'm sure you'd figure any team could use Stepan, no? I do.

young RFA age - Gagner, Dubnyk, and Peckham qualify as that. And they all could/most likely will be significant players for any team.
top six forward - Hemsky isn't a top 6 forward, he's a first liner. And every team could use that.
a first round pick - That was included.
and the teams top prospect. - We obviously know you aren't getting Hopkins, but Hartikainen is a very good prospect. And the fact you get 3 RFA's instead of one should make up for that.

I think the Oilers are getting ripped off here, and it sure seems the deal qualifies by your standards. The improvement of Ludquvist over Dubnyk for 3 years isn't worth all that.

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Old
09-05-2011, 03:13 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Oh, because you can't convert a player to the wing.lol. And you realize at all of one year older Gagner outscored Stepan by a considerable margin in terms of ppg. And he did last year too, and in his rookie season. Not saying he's better, just that you have to realize he is a very good young center. I'm sure you'd figure any team could use Stepan, no? I do.

young RFA age - Gagner, Dubnyk, and Peckham qualify as that. And they all could/most likely will be significant players for any team.
top six forward - Hemsky isn't a top 6 forward, he's a first liner. And every team could use that.
a first round pick - That was included.
and the teams top prospect. - We obviously know you aren't getting Hopkins, but Hartikainen is a very good prospect. And the fact you get 3 RFA's instead of one should make up for that.

I think the Oilers are getting ripped off here, and it sure seems the deal qualifies by your standards. The improvement of Ludquvist over Dubnyk for 3 years isn't worth all that.
Get it through your skull dude, we are being offered extraneous parts. I know you think your garbage is actually gold, but to the Rangers for Lundqvist, it isn't. I've already explained why each one of those parts offered does nothing for us. We're not taking Ganger on as a project to put as a LW, who at this point should be a lot better than he actually is, Rangers are fine taking our chances with Richards, Anisimov and Stepan as our top 3 - jesus how will we manage . Hemsky would have to come with an extension and a games played clause to be worth it. You can try to cut down Lundqvist all you want but he's a top 3 goaltender in the world. Dubnyk will never even touch near that level of being that good.
A less ridiculous proposal would be MPS + 2012 1st (No Protection) + Klefbom.

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Old
09-05-2011, 08:10 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLBarmada View Post
So here we are:

To EDM
Henrik Lundqvist
Wojtek Wolski or Salary dump

To NYR
Ales Hemsky
Devan Dubnyk/Nikolai Khabibulin
Rajala/Hartikinen
Gagner
Theo Peckham
2013 1st (top 10 protected)


Trying to be realistic here, not a fan of either team, and while there's obvious constraints, I think its realistic, as Hemsky's a pretty nice piece. EDM won't trade the obvious.

Flame away !!!
Ah Ha! Ah Ha!

Hemsky overrated and always hurt.
Want no goalies from the Oilers
Like Gagne but I'm not taking him over any of the centers the Rangers have.
Peckham can't make the Rangers defense
Your first round pick is worthless if you protect it being in the top 10.


Please close this thread.

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Old
09-05-2011, 09:39 AM
  #62
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Start with Hall, a number one and then go from there. Otherwise try EA Sports they may agree.

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Old
09-05-2011, 09:40 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRanger View Post
NYR aren't trading King Henrik.
yea trade offer is not realistic at all based on this alone

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Old
09-05-2011, 10:59 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRanger View Post
NYR aren't trading Queen Henrik.
/thread

no way they ever trade him. this is retarded.

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Old
09-05-2011, 11:07 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLBarmada View Post
So here we are:

To EDM
Henrik Lundqvist
Wojtek Wolski or Salary dump

To NYR
Ales Hemsky
Devan Dubnyk/Nikolai Khabibulin
Rajala/Hartikinen
Gagner
Theo Peckham
2013 1st (top 10 protected)


Trying to be realistic here, not a fan of either team, and while there's obvious constraints, I think its realistic, as Hemsky's a pretty nice piece. EDM won't trade the obvious.

Flame away !!!
It's just my opinion, but i don't see any way the Rangers move Lundqvist without getting a significant player back. The best thing in that deal could be the 1st round pick but you make it top 10 protected.

I think the Rangers would be asking for Hall and even then, they would need a goaltender. Neither of the guys in Edmonton are guys that a team that has asperations for a long playoff run are going to want.

Hemsky will be an UFA after the season, I could see the rangers wanting to add him at the deadline, but the return would probably be more like a 1st round pick and a prospect.

Lundqvist is the rangers best player, without giving up a guy like Hall, I just don't see it getting done or even discussed.

I was going to make a counter proposal, but why would the Oilers trade any of their young guys? They wouldn't, they seem to be committed to building their team through the draft, I can see them being players in the free agent market when they become a playoff team and shortly after that a team that makes a big trade to put them over the top, but right now they seem like they are going to build up their team and their prospect depth so that they can compete for the long term. Trading for Lundqvist would cost a lot more than players the Oilers don't plan on having on the team in 2 years.

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Old
09-05-2011, 11:09 AM
  #66
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when it comes to lundqvist, even the 1st isnt worth it. but youre right, unless a significant star is going the other way, i wouldnt trade him. without him in net, its a different rangers team. although as a devs/isles fan...i welcome that trade.

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Old
09-05-2011, 11:49 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
The price for Lundqvist is a young RFA age top six forward, a first round pick and the teams top prospect.
i get how Ranger fans feel about Lundqvist, but sorry, this is WAY too much for just him alone.

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Old
09-05-2011, 12:06 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
i get how Ranger fans feel about Lundqvist, but sorry, this is WAY too much for just him alone.
Well then you can't afford a top 3 goaltender in the world, simple as that. And Sather is a great trader as well so if you don't think he would get that back PLUS more for him if we were trading him, you're only kidding yourself.

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Old
09-05-2011, 12:23 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
Well then you can't afford a top 3 goaltender in the world, simple as that. And Sather is a great trader as well so if you don't think he would get that back PLUS more for him if we were trading him, you're only kidding yourself.
well, as a fan of the Rangers, i think they could get a top 6 forward in Hemsky and actually sign him. of all teams in the NHL, the Rangers could sign him! and i suppose the Rangers could get a top prospect, but not our best one, i don't think the Oilers would do that, but the fly in the soup would be a 1st rounder....no way the Oil would part with that during a rebuild, especially if it's a high pick.

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Old
09-05-2011, 12:34 PM
  #70
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I don't know why there is any arguing at all, this is a horrible, horrible trade no matter which angle you look at it.

Obviously the Rangers aren't interested in any deal including sending out Lundqvist.

The Oilers don't build from the net out. And giving up the number of pieces the OP is suggesting would make it almost impossible for the Oilers to ice a full lineup without signing and playing a bunch of tards who are not NHL caliber.

This proposal is one of the worst I've seen on HF, from both sides.

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Old
09-05-2011, 12:36 PM
  #71
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Henrik is the Rangers core, the heart of thier team. If you are going to remove the heart you need to add one back. As an Oiler fan, Hemsky is not a heart and soul, nor is Gags etc... For the value to be there it must include Hall.
Thankfully, the Oilers will not move him so it is a moot pt.

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Old
09-05-2011, 12:58 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BLBarmada View Post
So here we are:

To EDM
Henrik Lundqvist
Wojtek Wolski or Salary dump

To NYR
Ales Hemsky
Devan Dubnyk/Nikolai Khabibulin
Rajala/Hartikinen
Gagner
Theo Peckham
2013 1st (top 10 protected)


Trying to be realistic here, not a fan of either team, and while there's obvious constraints, I think its realistic, as Hemsky's a pretty nice piece. EDM won't trade the obvious.

Flame away !!!
Hank to Edmonton?

Start with Hall, add Paajarvi and perhaps 2012 and 2013 1sts.

Sorry, but if you want to bring the King north, there's got to be an heir here - and the heir comes in the form of UNLIMITED FIREPOWER *****ES

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Old
09-05-2011, 12:59 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
i get how Ranger fans feel about Lundqvist, but sorry, this is WAY too much for just him alone.
Henrik is to this team as Gretzky was to the Oilers dynasty. If you want to trade the Great One, you gotta pay in fair value.

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Old
09-05-2011, 01:00 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
Get it through your skull dude, we are being offered extraneous parts. I know you think your garbage is actually gold, but to the Rangers for Lundqvist, it isn't. I've already explained why each one of those parts offered does nothing for us. We're not taking Ganger on as a project to put as a LW, who at this point should be a lot better than he actually is, Rangers are fine taking our chances with Richards, Anisimov and Stepan as our top 3 - jesus how will we manage . Hemsky would have to come with an extension and a games played clause to be worth it. You can try to cut down Lundqvist all you want but he's a top 3 goaltender in the world. Dubnyk will never even touch near that level of being that good.
A less ridiculous proposal would be MPS + 2012 1st (No Protection) + Klefbom.


Even that is miles away, imo.

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Old
09-05-2011, 01:04 PM
  #75
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NO CHANCE do the Oilers ever destroy their future for just Lundqvist......he's not worth anything CLOSE to all those players
I get that you're in a division where goaltending is an old mans sport or an utter joke, but out here in the East, where goaltending matters more than bottomdwelling, we appreciate having the best goalie on the planet manning the pipes.

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