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Ville de Québec: NHL to QC non-arena talk - Part I

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09-21-2011, 09:30 PM
  #51
MoonlightGraham
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I'd be surprised if all of this was done without some sort of indication from the NHL that they have a very good chance of getting a team in a few years. If they don't get a team this whole thing will be a disaster for the City of Quebec and the Quebec provincial government, who are funding the arena. They're saying the arena can be profitable without a team (with all the shows and events and whatnot) but it's obvious they desperatly want the Nordiques playing in there.

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09-21-2011, 09:39 PM
  #52
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So....do they put the shovel in now?
They'll contract people to actually do the building first and once the ground unfreezes they should be able to start in 2012.

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09-22-2011, 01:32 AM
  #53
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quebec needs a new arena nhl or not.

if they go ahead, it indicates that they are now an option for a relocation/expansion. Nothing more.

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09-22-2011, 12:22 PM
  #54
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They're saying the arena can be profitable without a team (with all the shows and events and whatnot) but it's obvious they desperatly want the Nordiques playing in there.
In this context, all "profitable" means is that it's expected that revenues will cover the arena's operating expenses. Without an NHL team, the Quebecor deal will barely cover the city's principal payments on the debt. They need the team (and probably some more) to cover the interest.

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09-22-2011, 02:01 PM
  #55
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just a matter of time now for quebec city, i'd imagine construction on arena will start spring 2012. Would make most sense, but who knows how much of the plans they already have drawn out

As the vote passed, they will be able to start some preparations these next few months. But I'd expect proper construction to commence early next year.

bonne chance!

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09-22-2011, 08:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Seymour Skinner View Post
I'd be surprised if all of this was done without some sort of indication from the NHL that they have a very good chance of getting a team in a few years. If they don't get a team this whole thing will be a disaster for the City of Quebec and the Quebec provincial government, who are funding the arena. They're saying the arena can be profitable without a team (with all the shows and events and whatnot) but it's obvious they desperatly want the Nordiques playing in there.
It won't be a disaster, they need a new arena period.

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09-22-2011, 10:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Seymour Skinner View Post
I'd be surprised if all of this was done without some sort of indication from the NHL that they have a very good chance of getting a team in a few years. If they don't get a team this whole thing will be a disaster for the City of Quebec and the Quebec provincial government, who are funding the arena. They're saying the arena can be profitable without a team (with all the shows and events and whatnot) but it's obvious they desperatly want the Nordiques playing in there.
I agree. I don't know if you've watched TVA Sports yet, but the way they are talking about it, it looks like a "done" deal. Maybe it is just propaganda (Peladeau, like you probably know, owns the netwokr), but they look VERY confident and have been in contact with Bettman for a few years.

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09-23-2011, 10:59 AM
  #58
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Its gonna be like winnipeg the nhl will make them wait 1-2-3-4 years but sooner or later it will get done.

It doesnt look like the economy will get better anytime soon, quebec city will have a brand new arena and already has a great potential owner with deep pockets ,a very strong will to get a team and the fan base is already here . How many other potential markets have the same combo?

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09-25-2011, 12:24 AM
  #59
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I wonder what the procedure will be from now on? Since they will probably wait to recieves offers from company to build it and design it, can they start building right next year?

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09-25-2011, 01:19 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I wonder what the procedure will be from now on? Since they will probably wait to recieves offers from company to build it and design it, can they start building right next year?
The plan is to have a call for bids for the actual construction and start to build next summer. ETA 2015.

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09-26-2011, 01:53 AM
  #61
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The plan is to have a call for bids for the actual construction and start to build next summer. ETA 2015.
Thank you very much.

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09-26-2011, 02:03 AM
  #62
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I posted this before but, what do you think the odds are Phoenix moves after the season if they fail to make the playoffs ala what happened with the thrashers? Le Colisee is going to pack more fans in then the 'yotes night in and night out, especially if they don't make the playoffs,which is a very real possibility. I think if the arena gets approved before seasons end,and Phoenix struggles again with attendence and no playoffs,it is a very good possibility. Thoughts?

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09-26-2011, 05:10 AM
  #63
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I posted this before but, what do you think the odds are Phoenix moves after the season if they fail to make the playoffs ala what happened with the thrashers? Le Colisee is going to pack more fans in then the 'yotes night in and night out, especially if they don't make the playoffs,which is a very real possibility. I think if the arena gets approved before seasons end,and Phoenix struggles again with attendence and no playoffs,it is a very good possibility. Thoughts?
You know the law we were talking about? that was the final approbation.

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09-26-2011, 10:33 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by avs1986 View Post
I posted this before but, what do you think the odds are Phoenix moves after the season if they fail to make the playoffs ala what happened with the thrashers? Le Colisee is going to pack more fans in then the 'yotes night in and night out, especially if they don't make the playoffs,which is a very real possibility. I think if the arena gets approved before seasons end,and Phoenix struggles again with attendence and no playoffs,it is a very good possibility. Thoughts?
Its possible for sure i mean yeah the colisée is an old barn build in 1949 but in 2008 it was still good enough for the world hockey championship and 15000 fans paying full price will always be better than 10000 fans in Phoenix paying 25$ a ticket.

The coyotes making the playoff or not will have no impact on them moving or not, if they find a local buyer they will stay for sure cause its what the nhl wants, if theres no buyer anything is possible

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09-26-2011, 12:12 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
Its gonna be like winnipeg the nhl will make them wait 1-2-3-4 years but sooner or later it will get done.

It doesnt look like the economy will get better anytime soon, quebec city will have a brand new arena and already has a great potential owner with deep pockets ,a very strong will to get a team and the fan base is already here . How many other potential markets have the same combo?
They might not necessarily make them wait, but they will use them as leverage.

For example, Quebec City may end up getting the Coyotes, but not before being used as a threat to get new deals done on Long Island and Columbus.

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09-26-2011, 01:03 PM
  #66
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They might not necessarily make them wait, but they will use them as leverage.

For example, Quebec City may end up getting the Coyotes, but not before being used as a threat to get new deals done on Long Island and Columbus.
Maybe, but probably not. The city of Glendale said they wouldn't pay another 25M$ to cover the team's losses. There are no serious potential owner and they have the worst team they've had in three years. They won't make the playoffs this year and they'll likely end up with a lottery pick.

Unless someone with deep pockets and ready to lose money for a few years magically shows up and buys the team, it will be their last year in Pheonix. I don't see the league losing another 25M$+.

Quebec City is the only viable option right now. They will build an arena and they have an owner with deep pockets that showed interest in bringing a team back. PKP has a media empire that will assure him to make money with the Nordiques. They might "lose" money, but globally, the Nords will be a profitable asset for him. If he doesn't make money directly "with the team", he will make money because of the team. No other city is ready to have a team and Pheonix is very close from having to be moved. Quebec City won't be used as leverage because Bettman and co doesn't have the luxury of stalling in the Pheonix case, they have stalled for too long, they have to finalize something. Either they sell the team to a new owner commited to keep the team in Pheonix, either they sell it to Peladeau. I think we are at that point.

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09-26-2011, 04:06 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Maybe, but probably not. The city of Glendale said they wouldn't pay another 25M$ to cover the team's losses. There are no serious potential owner and they have the worst team they've had in three years. They won't make the playoffs this year and they'll likely end up with a lottery pick.

Unless someone with deep pockets and ready to lose money for a few years magically shows up and buys the team, it will be their last year in Pheonix. I don't see the league losing another 25M$+.

Quebec City is the only viable option right now. They will build an arena and they have an owner with deep pockets that showed interest in bringing a team back. PKP has a media empire that will assure him to make money with the Nordiques. They might "lose" money, but globally, the Nords will be a profitable asset for him. If he doesn't make money directly "with the team", he will make money because of the team. No other city is ready to have a team and Pheonix is very close from having to be moved. Quebec City won't be used as leverage because Bettman and co doesn't have the luxury of stalling in the Pheonix case, they have stalled for too long, they have to finalize something. Either they sell the team to a new owner commited to keep the team in Pheonix, either they sell it to Peladeau. I think we are at that point.
What's Plan B, IF Glendale(PHX) ends up staying put, this post becomes moot the way it's going now, if GWI doesn't INTEFERE w/ the operation of the Coyotes, the way it's been doing, no matter whom the prospective owner has been linked

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09-26-2011, 04:20 PM
  #68
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What's Plan B, IF Glendale(PHX) ends up staying put, this post becomes moot the way it's going now, if GWI doesn't INTEFERE w/ the operation of the Coyotes, the way it's been doing, no matter whom the prospective owner has been linked
Plan B? I guess there is no plan B. Expansion? Maybe, but unlikely. If the Coyotes stay put (and I hope for their fans that it will be the case, even if I'm dreaming of seeing a team back in QC since 1995) I think the window will be closed for the time being. I don't think any other franchises are in serious jeopardy and I really don't think the league will expand, especially not with many franchises struggling to break even.

However, if the owners want some concession from the players in the next CBA, they might have to explore expansion (ie create more jobs). The system is working fine right now, the problem being that some franchises in non-traditional markets are poorly run (I'm not bashing their fans or the fact that they belong or not in the NHL, those markets could easily succeed the way SJ or TB has with proper managment). So, it would be very difficult for the league to ask the players to cut back again, especially since the league has been making money like never before... IN A RECESSION! The league has no leverage, so maybe creating 46 more jobs would help them obtain some of the things they want. However, outside of Quebec City, is there another market ready to receive an NHL team?

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09-26-2011, 05:51 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Plan B? I guess there is no plan B. Expansion? Maybe, but unlikely. If the Coyotes stay put (and I hope for their fans that it will be the case, even if I'm dreaming of seeing a team back in QC since 1995) I think the window will be closed for the time being. I don't think any other franchises are in serious jeopardy and I really don't think the league will expand, especially not with many franchises struggling to break even.

However, if the owners want some concession from the players in the next CBA, they might have to explore expansion (ie create more jobs). The system is working fine right now, the problem being that some franchises in non-traditional markets are poorly run (I'm not bashing their fans or the fact that they belong or not in the NHL, those markets could easily succeed the way SJ or TB has with proper managment). So, it would be very difficult for the league to ask the players to cut back again, especially since the league has been making money like never before... IN A RECESSION! The league has no leverage, so maybe creating 46 more jobs would help them obtain some of the things they want. However, outside of Quebec City, is there another market ready to receive an NHL team?
I don't think a relocation to Québec is out of the picture if Phoenix manages to stay. You seem to forget how fast the situation evolved in Atlanta once it started to move.

There's still problematic situations in the NHL outside of the Yotes.
  • The Isles, as much as sympathize with their fans, are not out of the woods yet. I'm dubious that the new proposed plan is going to please Charles Wang. He could still decide to put an end to his venture in hockey. And I'm not sure a 100M$ renovation plan of the Nassau is going to attract a buyer in a saturated hockey market.
  • The Devils suddenly find themselves in debt trouble.
  • The Panthers are still struggling to attract fans and their tv ratings are atrocious.

Considering the state of the economy in the US, things can sour very fast. But all these suppositions are moot until the Phoenix situation is resolved. And frankly I don't think the Yotes will stay in Scottsdale.

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09-26-2011, 07:40 PM
  #70
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I don't think a relocation to Québec is out of the picture if Phoenix manages to stay. You seem to forget how fast the situation evolved in Atlanta once it started to move.

There's still problematic situations in the NHL outside of the Yotes.
  • The Isles, as much as sympathize with their fans, are not out of the woods yet. I'm dubious that the new proposed plan is going to please Charles Wang. He could still decide to put an end to his venture in hockey. And I'm not sure a 100M$ renovation plan of the Nassau is going to attract a buyer in a saturated hockey market.
  • The Devils suddenly find themselves in debt trouble.
  • The Panthers are still struggling to attract fans and their tv ratings are atrocious.

Considering the state of the economy in the US, things can sour very fast. But all these suppositions are moot until the Phoenix situation is resolved. And frankly I don't think the Yotes will stay in Scottsdale.
Florida has a long-term lease & despite the challenges the team faces, overall, the arena is actually profitable. Jerseys' playing out of a new building and should the current partner fail to close on a purchase, there are numerous outsiders in the area who would give their eye teeth to buy that franchise & keep it put.

Long Island however is a huge question mark. The opponents to Wangs LightHouse unveiled their own plans to renovate Nassau Coliseum & develop the surrounding lands, claiming they had the possible financial backing of various developers, however and notably, Wang was completely absent from the unveiling & refused comment when asked about it. The new Barclay Center is unsuited to NHL hockey, though it could suffice in a pinch I suppose.

As for Phoenix, if the rumors of Jamison out of San Jose' & Reinsdorfs re-entry are serious, and I believe they are, they'll likely continue to play under the year X year lease the NHL signed with Glendale back in May. If a turnaround after 3-5yrs isnt accomplished, they'll be a candidate for relocation, Quebec City certainly the most attractive option.

I also agree with the poster who thinks Expansion is still a possibility, certainly as it would bolster the NHL's positioning in drawing concessions from the NHLPA, particularly if the destinations are Quebec City & Hamilton, Houston & Seattle/Tacoma/Portland. Thats a lot of money sitting idle in rich entry fee's to split up amongst the 30 existing owners, many in some rather desperate straits.

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09-26-2011, 08:36 PM
  #71
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Florida has a long-term lease & despite the challenges the team faces, overall, the arena is actually profitable.
Long-term lease with what kind of penaties? Arena profitable, Arena Operating Company (AOC) is profitable, Panthers is not, is SSE (= AOC+Panthers) profitable?

JOL

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09-26-2011, 09:00 PM
  #72
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Long-term lease with what kind of penaties? Arena profitable, Arena Operating Company (AOC) is profitable, Panthers is not, is SSE (= AOC+Panthers) profitable?

JOL
No, not yet, and not by a longshot, buts its stabilizing itself. The arena revenue streams from concerts & events subsidizing the team, however, the Panthers bottom line appears to be improving. Local television viewership is the worst in the league, 3AM infomercials drawing more eyeballs, however, with Tallon making changes & Yormarks hyper-aggressive sales & sponsorship activities they will continue to improve on the ice and at the gate. Like a lot of people I wrote them off as a lost cause a couple of years ago when the majority owner pretty much threw the keys on the desk & walked away; since then however, changes have been made & I now believe they'll likely turn the corner and make a go of it.

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09-27-2011, 04:28 AM
  #73
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I'd be surprised if all of this was done without some sort of indication from the NHL that they have a very good chance of getting a team in a few years. If they don't get a team this whole thing will be a disaster for the City of Quebec and the Quebec provincial government, who are funding the arena. They're saying the arena can be profitable without a team (with all the shows and events and whatnot) but it's obvious they desperatly want the Nordiques playing in there.
Exactly. I believe there is at minimum an understanding between QC, the province of Quebec, Quebecor and the NHL, that QC will have an NHL franchise play out of their new building. The exact when and how may not be determined 100% at this point, but there are obviously a few options for the NHL and Quebecor to consider.

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09-27-2011, 09:33 AM
  #74
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Exactly. I believe there is at minimum an understanding between QC, the province of Quebec, Quebecor and the NHL, that QC will have an NHL franchise play out of their new building. The exact when and how may not be determined 100% at this point, but there are obviously a few options for the NHL and Quebecor to consider.
I think that much like Bettman telling Chipman that Winnipeg was next in line at one point, he has told Quebec and the related parties that once they build the arena, they too will be next in line.

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09-27-2011, 12:16 PM
  #75
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What about Kansas City? They built an arena not so long ago, they're located in an area that has few NHL teams and would ease the travel of many western teams.

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