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Mario Lemieux's overall shot

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09-07-2011, 09:17 AM
  #1
BenchBrawl
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Mario Lemieux's overall shot

Where do you see him in the shots department against the best of them?( overall , all shots , power , accuracy , speed of execution )

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09-07-2011, 09:23 AM
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Never seen anyone more accurate. We all remember the replays of him scoring from below the goal line, shooting faceoffs into the net, etc. Unbelievably precise in a way I can't really compare to anyone else.

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09-07-2011, 09:27 AM
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He had the highest possible level of accuracy.

As for power and quickness, Gretzky said it best; "He could snap a puck through a refrigerator door."

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09-07-2011, 09:36 AM
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slap shot: long wind up, but used it to intimidate goalies since his slap shot was a missile. Placed shot where he intended to 99 times out of a 100.

wrist shot: placement was otherworldly. Picked corners on goalies with ease. As close to automatic on breakaways as one can be due to this. Plus, velocity on his wrist shot was impressive. No floaters here.

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09-07-2011, 10:59 AM
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I can't think of anyone with a significantly better wrist or snap shot.

Aside from accuracy, Lemieux was very strong and his wrist/snap shot power was one of the best.

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09-07-2011, 11:11 AM
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very powerful, and extremely deceptive. Most accurate shot in history. This was helped by the feints he made before he shot. I swear he was the best on breakaways, EVER.

This is backed up statistically, look at the all time shooting percentage leaders. The top is dominated by 80s players, most of them merely above average opportunists who, overall, didn't shoot very much, and guys with shorter careers. Lemieux played until 2006, and is the only player who both took a ton of shots, and scored on a high percentage of them.

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09-07-2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Where do you see him in the shots department against the best of them?( overall , all shots , power , accuracy , speed of execution )
Wrist shot: Release and accuracy the best I've witnessed. He found openings, and his release was so quick and so accurate the goalies had no chance. There's a reason he could comeback after 3 1/2 years and pot 35 goals in 43 games against superior goaltenders with superior equipment, even though he himself seemed slower. It was his release and accuracy, as well as subtle fakes in which he used his long reach to freeze the goalie, then he could either deke or fire it into a corner the second a goalie blinked his eye. His wrist shot power was not the greatest, but it was right up there though. Sakic and Ovechkin have him beat for wrist shot velocity.

Slap shot: Same story with the wrist shot, except only a select few have more velocity on their shots in game situations, think Bobby Hull, Brett Hull and Al MacInnis. Possibly Ovechkin and Kovalchuk today. He could also take long windups and it didn't really matter if the goalie knew it was coming, they could have all the time to prepare and as soon as they committed he would find the opening and wire it in. He also had multiple shots the goalie got a piece of but still went in anyway.

Snap shot: Once again very similar to his wrist shot, his release and accuracy were unmatched. He combined his reach with a variety of other options he had, deking the opposing team out of their jockstraps, making a quick pass from any angle that only he could see, this made it hard for goalies to cheat, they basically had to guess and hope they guessed right, which didn't happen too often.

Backhand: He didn't seem to use the backhand too often other than when he was deking the goalie. I recall more than a few times him sniping from far out with a back hand much like Crosby or Datsyuk do today. It wasn't his main weapon though. Even strength it was mostly the wrister or the snapper, and the slapper on the powerplay.

Overall: To elaborate more on what made him such a great goalscorer other than his shooting skills, his vision, hockey sense, anticipation, his deking abilities, his long wingspan, were all a nightmare for goaltenders. He could have the puck on one side of the goalie, then bring it back 15 feet the other direction in a split second, and either make a pass or a shot that was sure to fool the goalie. His accuracy and release have to be the best I've witnessed, and when you're 6'4", have the best hands ever seen in a hockey player as well as the second best hockey sense ever, there's not a whole lot anyone can do to stop you from putting the puck in the net.


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09-07-2011, 12:14 PM
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In some interview he once said that he has always loved the sound when the puck hits the post in the top corner and then goes in the net. That's why he aimed for the top corners all the time. He actually did in many big game situations (remember the deciding goal in the 1987 Canada Cup?) and scored with ease. He was just that confident in the accuracy of his wristshot.

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09-07-2011, 01:54 PM
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He was the best at shooting the puck so precisely, he's the only player who could put the puck exactly where he wanted to with such regularity. It's why he could continue to score when goalie equipment got so big, he could put the puck where the goalie couldn't get to no matter his size.

The most deadly player ever on breakaways by a fair margin. I only remember him ever being stopped a few times in game situations.

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09-07-2011, 02:22 PM
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Excellent Summary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono Trigger View Post
Wrist shot: Release and accuracy the best I've witnessed. He found openings, and his release was so quick and so accurate the goalies had no chance. There's a reason he could comeback after 3 1/2 years and pot 35 goals in 43 games against superior goaltenders with superior equipment, even though he himself seemed slower. It was his release and accuracy, as well as subtle fakes in which he used his long reach to freeze the goalie, then he could either deke or fire it into a corner the second a goalie blinked his eye. His wrist shot power was not the greatest, but it was right up there though. Sakic and Ovechkin have him beat for wrist shot velocity.

Slap shot: Same story with the wrist shot, except only a select few have more velocity on their shots in game situations, think Bobby Hull, Brett Hull and Al MacInnis. Possibly Ovechkin and Kovalchuk today. He could also take long windups and it didn't really matter if the goalie knew it was coming, they could have all the time to prepare and as soon as they committed he would find the opening and wire it in. He also had multiple shots the goalie got a piece of but still went in anyway.

Snap shot: Once again very similar to his wrist shot, his release and accuracy were unmatched. He combined his reach with a variety of other options he had, deking the opposing team out of their jockstraps, making a quick pass from any angle that only he could see, this made it hard for goalies to cheat, they basically had to guess and hope they guessed right, which didn't happen too often.

Backhand: He didn't seem to use the backhand too often other than when he was deking the goalie. I recall more than a few times him sniping from far out with a back hand much like Crosby or Datsyuk do today. It wasn't his main weapon though. Even strength it was mostly the wrister or the snapper, and the slapper on the powerplay.

Overall: To elaborate more on what made him such a great goalscorer other than his shooting skills, his vision, hockey sense, anticipation, his deking abilities, his long wingspan, were all a nightmare for goaltenders. He could have the puck on one side of the goalie, then bring it back 15 feet the other direction in a split second, and either make a pass or a shot that was sure to fool the goalie. His accuracy and release have to be the best I've witnessed, and when you're 6'4", have the best hands ever seen in a hockey player as well as the second best hockey sense ever, there's not a whole lot anyone can do to stop you from putting the puck in the net.
Excellent summary. Reads like you have scouted a bit.

Few additions.

Mario Lemieux had the ability to change a shot to a pass or a pass to a shot later than most players who commit rather early. Also he used to fool goalies with blade positioning and the pressure he applied on the stick hiding his intentions shoot or pass.

For a big man, Lemieux was very adept at playing the puck close to his body, forehand and backhand while masking his intentions, shoot or pass.

Up thread.The shot of the face-off was an old Jean Beliveau play. Bit of a trick - position the other players for the draw. If the goalie overplays by moving from the post a bit, nail the opening.

The key to Mario Lemieux's offensive game was that his wingers and dmen had to play wide. This forced the defence wide and forced the goalie to move creating the additional openings.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 09-07-2011 at 02:24 PM. Reason: spacing
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Old
09-07-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Excellent summary. Reads like you have scouted a bit.

Few additions.

Mario Lemieux had the ability to change a shot to a pass or a pass to a shot later than most players who commit rather early. Also he used to fool goalies with blade positioning and the pressure he applied on the stick hiding his intentions shoot or pass.

For a big man, Lemieux was very adept at playing the puck close to his body, forehand and backhand while masking his intentions, shoot or pass.

Up thread.The shot of the face-off was an old Jean Beliveau play. Bit of a trick - position the other players for the draw. If the goalie overplays by moving from the post a bit, nail the opening.

The key to Mario Lemieux's offensive game was that his wingers and dmen had to play wide. This forced the defence wide and forced the goalie to move creating the additional openings.
Haven't scouted, but would love to. I use to play NCAA then later became a coach at the Junior A level for a few years. I consider myself a very good analyst, like many on these boards. I'm not really into any other sports, so I spend a lot of my time analyzing hockey in general. Thanks for the positive feedback BTW.

A few things I forgot to add was Lemieux has scored multiple times directly off the face-off as you and someone else mentioned, he also had the 5 goals in 5 different ways which is still a record to this day. I also agree he was without doubt the best breakaway player ever. If he had played today, no one could hook and hold him, which is all you really could do to stop him, and he'd be easily the best shootout player in the league today. He would have 70+ goals per year, and another 10-15 in the shootout in todays league, he would be a force, possibly even more so than he was due to the shootouts and stricter clutching and grabbing penalties. Shot blocking I wouldn't see as being a huge detriment to him today, because of his ability as you mentioned to out wait players/goalies and make the precise decision.

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09-07-2011, 04:41 PM
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Mario's shot was beyond elite.

his wrister was probably the best ever. Quick release, tons of power, and laser accurate.

Probably the best slapshot of any forward ever, same reasons.

Another thing is Mario (like Gretzky,)was still accurate when off balance/moving.
He was dangerous in situations where many other people wouldn't be able to keep possession of the puck, let alone turn it into a scoring opportunity.

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09-07-2011, 05:13 PM
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He could shoot really well when it looked like the defense would be able to bottle him up or take away his angle. He was very deceptive and could snipe top right while looking bottom left.

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09-07-2011, 05:26 PM
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Top notch all the way around, but IMO, the 2nd way he'd score goals.

His reach and deking ability is what just made both players and goaltenders look amateur.


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09-07-2011, 06:23 PM
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That was crazy, how about this one? It makes me laugh...



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09-07-2011, 06:51 PM
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How did he get this shot through clean as he did? There's like, no space there.

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09-07-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrono Trigger View Post
A few things I forgot to add was Lemieux has scored multiple times directly off the face-off as you and someone else mentioned, he also had the 5 goals in 5 different ways which is still a record to this day. I also agree he was without doubt the best breakaway player ever. If he had played today, no one could hook and hold him, which is all you really could do to stop him, and he'd be easily the best shootout player in the league today. He would have 70+ goals per year, and another 10-15 in the shootout in todays league, he would be a force, possibly even more so than he was due to the shootouts and stricter clutching and grabbing penalties. Shot blocking I wouldn't see as being a huge detriment to him today, because of his ability as you mentioned to out wait players/goalies and make the precise decision.
I'll say this, Ovechkin has among the best shots I've ever seen. The newer sticks, monster curves DOES make a difference.

Bossy had the best release by far.
Brett Hull next closest. Stamkos pretty good nowadays.
Ovechkin, with time, probably has the hardest wrist shot I've seen, great slap shot too.
Mogilny, Kovalev, Iginla - great wrist shots.

99, well he didn't have much of a shot except a deadly accurate slap shot that he used sparingly.

Mario's shot was unspectacular but incredibly effective, probably the best, most accurate ever. I think Bossy was able to score on anyone, seemingly at will, with little room. But it was the quick release more than the pure shot/accuracy.

Mario made the game look slow motion. As C1958 said, he seemed to have way more time to make decisions than other players. He was so elusive and could beat a defender/goalie any way he wanted to. It was as though he CHOSE HOW he would score, out of several choices, rather than trying something/anything to try and score.

He really made the game look incredibly easy.

In his prime, in full health, he would be a real treat to watch in today's game. No red line, no holding, new sticks, wow.

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09-07-2011, 10:00 PM
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Top notch all the way around, but IMO, the 2nd way he'd score goals.

His reach and deking ability is what just made both players and goaltenders look amateur.

I agree.

when I was a teenager I used to rewrite the player rankings for my EA sports NHL games. Lemieux always got 100 in shot accuracy, passing, agility and stickhandling. I think I also gave Jagr 100 in the last two. This was circa 1997. Aside from them, I wouldn't give anyone else even a 95, out of respect for their abilities.

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09-07-2011, 10:19 PM
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Like someone else above posted, he used his reach perfectly every time he could. He'd go wide from side to side with the puck, making the goalie change/go off his angle slightly, just an inch or two, and put the puck in that space consistently.

It's something Brett Hull has talked about and if you watched Mario play full games, you could kind of see him doing it.

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09-07-2011, 10:33 PM
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I agree.

when I was a teenager I used to rewrite the player rankings for my EA sports NHL games. Lemieux always got 100 in shot accuracy, passing, agility and stickhandling. I think I also gave Jagr 100 in the last two. This was circa 1997. Aside from them, I wouldn't give anyone else even a 95, out of respect for their abilities.
I thought I was the only one to do that. I remember using a text editor and "hack" my way into the hex codes that generate the attributes, altering them based on what I believed.

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09-07-2011, 10:34 PM
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I was talking with Arturs Irbe a few months ago. I asked him who had the best shot he ever faced. Without hesitating he said, "Mario"

From what I remember he said no matter how well he played the angle, how well he read the play, Mario found a way to score.

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09-08-2011, 02:19 AM
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There's some more for everyone to enjoy.

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09-08-2011, 02:24 AM
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I'll say this, Ovechkin has among the best shots I've ever seen. The newer sticks, monster curves DOES make a difference.

Bossy had the best release by far.
Brett Hull next closest. Stamkos pretty good nowadays.
Ovechkin, with time, probably has the hardest wrist shot I've seen, great slap shot too.
Mogilny, Kovalev, Iginla - great wrist shots.

99, well he didn't have much of a shot except a deadly accurate slap shot that he used sparingly.

Mario's shot was unspectacular but incredibly effective, probably the best, most accurate ever. I think Bossy was able to score on anyone, seemingly at will, with little room. But it was the quick release more than the pure shot/accuracy.

Mario made the game look slow motion. As C1958 said, he seemed to have way more time to make decisions than other players. He was so elusive and could beat a defender/goalie any way he wanted to. It was as though he CHOSE HOW he would score, out of several choices, rather than trying something/anything to try and score.

He really made the game look incredibly easy.

In his prime, in full health, he would be a real treat to watch in today's game. No red line, no holding, new sticks, wow.
I couldn't agree more with everything you've said here... going a little off topic, but since you mentioned him, where are all the Mogilny highlights?! I can hardly find any at all.

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09-08-2011, 03:21 AM
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I thought I was the only one to do that. I remember using a text editor and "hack" my way into the hex codes that generate the attributes, altering them based on what I believed.
I did it too, in 1992 or 1993. Inserted non-NHL:ers too, like Forsberg, as well as created my own teams and players.

Regarding Mario, I think I was most impressed by a goal he scored from (almost?) behind the net, along the extended goal line, during a powerplay.

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09-08-2011, 09:15 AM
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Regarding Mario, I think I was most impressed by a goal he scored from (almost?) behind the net, along the extended goal line, during a powerplay.
Mario appeared to see the whole ice simultaneously but uniquely able to catch goalies off balance or expose a small opening when he really had no business shooting. It wasn't just accuracy, it's the fact that goalies simply weren't ready for a shot.

Mario couldn't shoot hard enough, well enough to outright beat a goalie from a distance. He never had a feared shot like that. Brett Hull, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kovalev, Mogilny, Iginla, Jagr (I'm sure many others I've missed) - these guys could rocket one past a goalie even when they are ready and in position.

Mario really didn't play that way or shoot like that. He had no curve on his stick and I NEVER recall him winding up a laser wrist shot to score a goal. He rarely scored on 1-timers on the PP (well, not rare, but certainly not for many of his goals) - yet he seemed to score a lot of ugly goals, a lot of pretty goals, a lot of seemingly effortless flick-shots from in-close. He was able to stick-handle and use his body to get close and then was deadly in-tight.

There's no talent that comes close to that. I doubt we'll ever see a player like that again but if he comes along, it'll be something truly remarkable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono Trigger View Post
I couldn't agree more with everything you've said here... going a little off topic, but since you mentioned him, where are all the Mogilny highlights?! I can hardly find any at all.
I got to see him a lot in Buffalo and in Toronto - what a talent. He looked like he was hardly trying much of the time (not unlike Kovalev), but when he turned it on he was amazing to watch. Completely explosive acceleration but a rocket shot as well.

Not sure why there isn't much you-tubing of this guy - especially compared to Schremp and Omark

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