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Old
11-21-2011, 11:21 AM
  #726
Connor McDavid
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Crosby's been "the best player in the league" for about 1.5 seasons out of his career. If the NHL decided to market the Sedins or Ovechkin this way it'd be about as accurate.

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Old
11-21-2011, 11:21 AM
  #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I get the hate for the guy--he's eminently dislikeable and the media fawning is tiresome--but, c'mon, really? He's scored over 100 points in every full season he played, and he was on pace for 132 (2010-11) and 111 (2007-08) during seasons in which he sustained injuries. He's just as good in the postseason, too. And he was only getting better prior to his concussions. His greatness is pretty undeniable.
/shrug

Malkin looked the best out of those three for a stretch.

Ovechkin looked like the best player in the world for more than two years.

Yeah, Crosby's great.
But again, IMO, he hasn't done enough to separate himself from the rest of the pack (only one Art Ross sorta proves it... Even the SC run, Malkin won the Conn Smythe).

For example, he's nowhere near the level of dominance that Jagr had...
Yet, already you have people how Sid's already better etc etc.

...

Yeah, the guy's been shoved down my throat too much, it made me dislike him.

No, I honestly don't see the gap between him, Ovechkin and Malkin.
(I do see gaps between him, a struggling Ovechkin and an always-injured Malkin, like the 40 games in the first half of last season)

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Old
11-21-2011, 11:22 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Ryan Ellis Problems View Post
Crosby's been "the best player in the league" for about 1.5 seasons out of his career. If the NHL decided to market the Sedins or Ovechkin this way it'd be about as accurate.
Exactly what I'm trying to say...

/highfive!

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Old
11-21-2011, 11:28 AM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Ellis Problems View Post
Crosby's been "the best player in the league" for about 1.5 seasons out of his career. If the NHL decided to market the Sedins or Ovechkin this way it'd be about as accurate.
The NHL has marketed Ovechkin as one of The Chosen Two for some time now, no? Am I just dreaming when I see Ovie on my TV during every third commerical when I watch Center Ice? Also, the Sedins were 40-point players at Crosby's age, and have a combined two 100-point seasons in their career; Sid has three on his own, and was on pace for two more during injury-shortened seasons.

Based on age and production, he's definitely one of the game's greats--hate to say it, but it's undeniable.

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Old
11-21-2011, 11:38 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
The NHL has marketed Ovechkin as one of The Chosen Two for some time now, no? Am I just dreaming when I see Ovie on my TV during every third commerical when I watch Center Ice? Also, the Sedins were 40-point players at Crosby's age, and have a combined two 100-point seasons in their career; Sid has three on his own, and was on pace for two more during injury-shortened seasons.

Based on age and production, he's definitely one of the game's greats--hate to say it, but it's undeniable.
The NHL hasn't marketed Ovechkin nearly as much as Ovie's marketed himself via CCM, Verizon, etc. Once it became clear that Sid found a valid rival in Ovechkin, the league started to promote him in that context. I'd argue they haven't really stopped, and I live right in the Caps' market.

And I understand what you're saying about the Sedins, but I believe you misunderstood me. Since Crosby entered the league, he hasn't been the #1 guy in the way he's been portrayed. He's a fabulous player, but Malkin/Ovechkin have each had (by my estimation) superior individual seasons, and each have at least the same amount of Harts. Lately, the Sedins have excelled in a way that none have matched.

Crosby is, as you say, one of the game's greats. That's undeniable. But right now, he's no more than that.

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Old
11-21-2011, 12:23 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Ellis Problems View Post
The NHL hasn't marketed Ovechkin nearly as much as Ovie's marketed himself via CCM, Verizon, etc. Once it became clear that Sid found a valid rival in Ovechkin, the league started to promote him in that context. I'd argue they haven't really stopped, and I live right in the Caps' market.

And I understand what you're saying about the Sedins, but I believe you misunderstood me. Since Crosby entered the league, he hasn't been the #1 guy in the way he's been portrayed. He's a fabulous player, but Malkin/Ovechkin have each had (by my estimation) superior individual seasons, and each have at least the same amount of Harts. Lately, the Sedins have excelled in a way that none have matched.

Crosby is, as you say, one of the game's greats. That's undeniable. But right now, he's no more than that.
Sid is much, much more multi-dimensional than Ovechkin. I don't think it's a coincidence that Ovechkin hasn't really improved much since his rookie season. Ovechkin is MUCH easier and more fun to cheer for, but at the end of the day I'm taking Crosby 10 times out of 10 if I'm running a team. Malkin has certainly had his moments too but it's been far too sporadic (that's definitely aided by injuries as well).

I understand the general point you're making about the marketing, I just happen to find that by watching them, and going by numbers Crosby is definitely the best. The Sedin's are great but how can you honestly say that the Sedins have excelled in a way that none have matched? I understand that it was only 41 games, but Crosby was far and away the best player in the world last season before he got hurt, and it really wasn't even remotely close.

It really just comes down to a matter of opinion, I happen to think that disdain for the way Crosby is marketed (and some of his on ice antics) really discolors people's view of him and effects their view of him as a hockey player.

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Old
11-21-2011, 12:40 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Ellis Problems View Post
The NHL hasn't marketed Ovechkin nearly as much as Ovie's marketed himself via CCM, Verizon, etc. Once it became clear that Sid found a valid rival in Ovechkin, the league started to promote him in that context. I'd argue they haven't really stopped, and I live right in the Caps' market.

And I understand what you're saying about the Sedins, but I believe you misunderstood me. Since Crosby entered the league, he hasn't been the #1 guy in the way he's been portrayed. He's a fabulous player, but Malkin/Ovechkin have each had (by my estimation) superior individual seasons, and each have at least the same amount of Harts. Lately, the Sedins have excelled in a way that none have matched.

Crosby is, as you say, one of the game's greats. That's undeniable. But right now, he's no more than that.
I'm not going to go too much into the marketing conversation, but I don't think he's far and away marketed more than Ovie--and I, too, live in Ovie's home market. Crosby is the best all-around player in the game, AINEC. As others have pointed out, people try to detract from that by pointing out the whining and preferential treatment he receives. Given his age and accomplishments to date, he's definitely on the level of some of the game's all-time greats.

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Old
11-21-2011, 03:34 PM
  #733
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Both Versus and CBC will be showing Crosbys return tonight.
Versus orginially was supposed to show the Boston-Montreal game.

Monday, November 21 - NY Islanders vs Pittsburgh - 7:00 pm ET.

National TV (United States) - VERSUS.
Play by Play: Dave Strader - Inside the Glass: Pierre McGuire.

National TV (Canada) - CBC.
Play by Play: Jim Hughson - Color: Craig Simpson.
Inside the Glass: Glenn Healy - Reporter: Elliotte Friedman.

CBC - http://puckthemedia.wordpress.com/20...monday-on-cbc/
Versus - http://puckthemedia.wordpress.com/20...he-crosby-act/

LS...


Last edited by LaxSabre: 11-21-2011 at 03:58 PM.
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Old
11-21-2011, 03:46 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Crosby is the best all-around player in the game, AINEC. As others have pointed out, people try to detract from that by pointing out the whining and preferential treatment he receives. Given his age and accomplishments to date, he's definitely on the level of some of the game's all-time greats.
There's no need to resort to HFisms. Offensively, few are on par with him, but there are some. Malkin and Ovechkin have each had more impressive individual seasons offensively than Crosby's best showing to this point. Defensively, there's yet another level of players who surpass Crosby while putting up points, including who I feel is the best all-around player in Datsyuk.
And to be sure, his talent is at ATG level, but so was Lindros'. His accomplishments to date include a Cup, a Hart, an Art Ross, and a Rocket Richard. Impressive to be sure but not ATG status at this point.

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Old
11-21-2011, 04:24 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Ryan Ellis Problems View Post
There's no need to resort to HFisms. Offensively, few are on par with him, but there are some. Malkin and Ovechkin have each had more impressive individual seasons offensively than Crosby's best showing to this point. Defensively, there's yet another level of players who surpass Crosby while putting up points, including who I feel is the best all-around player in Datsyuk.
And to be sure, his talent is at ATG level, but so was Lindros'. His accomplishments to date include a Cup, a Hart, an Art Ross, and a Rocket Richard. Impressive to be sure but not ATG status at this point.
What is the basis for this argument? The only season from either of those two that you could argue was better than Crosby's 120 point season is Ovechkins 65 goal season. More goals, less points...take your pick. I don't see how Malkin has topped Crosby's best, yet.

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Old
11-21-2011, 05:51 PM
  #736
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I don't have the actual metric tabbed, but there was a big analysis on one of the boards (HOH, maybe?) where corrected Malkin's Art Ross year came out ahead. Ovechkin's year did as well.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:22 PM
  #737
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so I look at and the clock and remember that the Pens-Isles game would be on VS. I figured I would turn it on for a few minutes to see Sid. Literally the second I turn it on I see/hear "and Crosby skates in on goal and he scores!" unbelievable.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:25 PM
  #738
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Second shift of the game and he beats two defenders and roofs a backhand.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:26 PM
  #739
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Either NHLers respect him quite a bit or the Isles D is awful.

e: Oh that goes uncalled every game

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:30 PM
  #740
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Good to see Crosby back, but him scoring will likely make the rest of the game un-listenable.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:35 PM
  #741
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I see he's working on his playoff crustache early this year. Maybe he'll be over 20 hairs by April.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:38 PM
  #742
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Crosby with a primary assist.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:39 PM
  #743
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yeah he's got 2 points already and the love fest is starting to grate on my nerves. I may have to turn this one off.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:39 PM
  #744
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*throws routine pass to point, tender lets in terrible goal*

CROSBY! WITH THE ASSIST!

*literally does not mention scorer's name until replay*

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:43 PM
  #745
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Crosby proving why he's the best in the world. Don't even care of the announcers blow him for the rest of the game. It's great to see him back.

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11-21-2011, 06:47 PM
  #746
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talk about throwing a rookie to the wolves. I know Nabakov and Montoya are both hurt, but you would think in a game like this Dipietro would play.

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:52 PM
  #747
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Isles getting bribed by the NHL :V

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Old
11-21-2011, 06:53 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Crosby proving why he's the best in the world. Don't even care of the announcers blow him for the rest of the game. It's great to see him back.
I just wish the game would be called as Pittsburgh vs Islanders, not Crosby vs Islanders...but that was never going to happen and it certainly isn't now.

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Old
11-21-2011, 07:11 PM
  #749
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get the rookie out of there FFS.

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Old
11-21-2011, 08:16 PM
  #750
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This is the big part that bothers me about Crosby. Watching Versus and there's a big save by Fleury and immediately after, not even 1 second after the save, they cut to Crosby on the bench.

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