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Penguins sign Richard Park

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Old
09-08-2011, 08:23 PM
  #101
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Why are we moving anyone? We have great depth for what we all believe to be a very, very long season. Everyone is going to get their shot. There doesn't have to be space for everyone in September, because players are going to get hurt.

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09-08-2011, 08:26 PM
  #102
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Isn't Park a center?

His last year in the NHL he was a 51.5% faceoff man, took over 1,000 faceoffs as well. I'd rather he was the center over Adams (41.7% last year, I still don't get the love fest people have with him and faceoffs).

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09-08-2011, 08:27 PM
  #103
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Why are we moving anyone? We have great depth for what we all believe to be a very, very long season. Everyone is going to get their shot. There doesn't have to be space for everyone in September, because players are going to get hurt.
Yeah, if we're looking at the full 23man roster with Jeffrey and Crosby on IR...the 3 extra's are MacIntyre, Williams and one of the 3 righties on the 3rd pairing.

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09-08-2011, 08:28 PM
  #104
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Gotta love HF and people complaining about the Pens signing an NHL vet for $550k on a two way deal. Good move for WBS and nice depth for the Pens. I think it is time for the season to begin.

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09-08-2011, 09:46 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
People negative about signing Park have really solidified my belief that no one on HFboards really watches games outside of their own team.

Park plays very similarly to Talbot and is very versatile with playing any position as a forward.

He's actually better than Talbot IMO, but I wouldn't go so far as to bet on him making the team out of camp as a couple others suggested. There's going to be a lot of competition from the young guns. I think there's a decent chance neither he nor Williams will make it initially.

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09-08-2011, 09:53 PM
  #106
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Park isn't bad by any stretch of the sane imagination. Actually, I'd compare him to Andy Hilbert.

This could turn out to be a very good pick up.

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09-08-2011, 09:59 PM
  #107
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09-08-2011, 10:01 PM
  #108
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It still freaks me out that he's as 'old' as he is. I remember his debut like it was...well, a good while ago, but I still remember it. He's one of the first guys I remember making their debuts in a Penguins uniform.

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09-08-2011, 10:27 PM
  #109
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Doesn't help that he's looked about 25 for the last ten years.

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09-08-2011, 11:12 PM
  #110
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Park works harder than Hilbert does, bad comparison. Park is a more low key version of Max Talbot and less aggressive version, that's how I see the guy.

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09-08-2011, 11:30 PM
  #111
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Ha... I remember meeting him and Chris Wells back when they got drafted in The Mall. Lots of great stories from that draft including how Scotty Bowman made a huge offer of "every French guy the wings had" at the time for Sundin.

Happy with the move. Good for speed and "puck git".

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09-08-2011, 11:50 PM
  #112
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I am glad to see Park back with the Penguins. If he is truly being groomed as a coach, who is anticipated as the next guy out of the organization? Granato?

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09-09-2011, 12:03 AM
  #113
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Park is one of those guys I always think has retired. Even so I have no problem with this. Even if the majority of his season is spent with WBS, maybe he can teach the kids a thing or two

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09-09-2011, 07:01 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I generally agree here although I'm not sure he beats Letestu out of a job. But you are right this is extremely redundant. I know we want to have veterans but we already have a logjam of potential bottom 6ers. From my count (assuming Neal, Kunitz, Sully, and Kennedy in top 6) we have:

Cooke, Dupuis, Letestu, Jeffrey, Johnson, Tangradi, Vitale, Adams, Asham, Williams, MacIntyre, Park. That's 12 and I'm probably missing someone.

More than likely Tangradi will head down just from a numbers perspective but we can't risk Jeffrey or Letestu to waivers (more so Jeffrey from my perspective). Johnson and Vitale are probably sent down at the beginning of the season and hope no one picks them up (probably a safe assumption). So that still leaves us with 9. Assuming Crosby is put on LTIR, we can keep 8 of them up so I would guess the lines are:

Cooke - Jeffrey - Dupuis
Asham - Letestu - Adams
MacIntyre - Williams

Just a guess.
You forgot Park...lol

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09-09-2011, 08:20 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Solution View Post
I am glad to see Park back with the Penguins. If he is truly being groomed as a coach, who is anticipated as the next guy out of the organization? Granato?
Probably, since he already has been a head coach in the NHL before. And down in Wilkes-Barre John Hynes won't stay forever. The man is only 36, was AHL Coach of the Year in his first year as head coach, and has had a successful tenure with the US U18 program, including three medals at the U18 WC. Someone will sign him as assistant, especially with how the Baby Pens have been quite the coaching ladder to the NHL recently (Richards, Bylsma and Reirden in the last 5 years).

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09-09-2011, 08:30 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I've been having this argument for years...

There are only so many bona fide point getters in the league, and they cost too much money for a team who's cap is tied up in a handful of players.

The disease on this board (and others) is thinking that teams with guys who are "scorers" (in quotes because they actually can't score anymore) are better off than teams with guys who skate and hit and create havoc...but don't get a lot of points.

In other words, lets have a bunch of Comries and Kovalevs floating around and taking up space rather than guys who will score just as much - or just as little depending on your point of view - because they're "skill" guys.

Give me guys who can skate and keep the other team pinned in their own zone over has beens any day.
This, this and this. As of today:

Dupuis >>> Kovalev
Adams >>> Comrie
Asham >>> Guerin

And Why? Because they bring so much more to the table than some "hands" or a "shot" and they're not a liability when on the ice. Anyone who understands hockey should see this. And for those who are complaining, give me a list of players you'd have signed.

If Dupuis was slower, always out of position but had some hands and had scored the same amound of goals the last two seasons, you guys would be all over him. But instead he's a players who busts his ass every shift, is fast as hell, a great pk-er and was our best EV goal scorer behind Crosby in 09/10 and he's sigend to a bargain deal.

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09-09-2011, 08:36 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
I'm not negative on Park as a player. I don't want to see him make the team because if he's on it then the team is having injury issues and/or Tangradi isn't getting NHL minutes.
If Park's on the team and Tangradi isn't then what does that tell us? If Tangradi can't beat out a 35 year old guy from South Korea, who played in Switzerland last year, then clearly he's not deserving of a spot.

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09-09-2011, 09:09 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
But instead he's a player who busts his ass every shift, is fast as hell, a great pk-er and was our best EV goal scorer behind Crosby in 09/10 and he's signed to a bargain deal.
Staal had more than Dupuis. But I digress.

I can't believe I'd ever see the day where hands become an underrated commodity in the NHL, but it appears as though we've reached that point now.

Last time I checked, we failed to score a goal in Game 7 last spring. No hands. We checked and checked and checked and checked, but no finish.

This isn't a slight on Richard Park at all, because I like him and I like the addition. But when is a lot of checkers/grinders too many checkers/grinders? Because there is such a thing, contrary to popular belief. We could add a couple of lazy players tomorrow and still have absolutely no fear that we'd revert back to the "Rob Brown" era. Which I suspect is what a lot of people here fear. That we'd get back to being the "country club" of the past if we brought in more talent up front that wasn't in the "Bylsma mold".

The way I see it, back then we were swayed way too much over on one side, with not enough players with a defensive conscience, not enough hard-workers, not enough grit overall. But today, we're swayed too much over on the other side. We rely way too much on too few players to generate our offense.

Hey, it'd be great if we kept picking up these bottom sixers to allow the prospects to compete for top six jobs, but that's not even the case is it? We have so many bottom sixers, they spill into the top six.

Everybody is looking at the roster and talking about the depth. Yeah, we're deep. Let's talk about scoring depth, though. Crosby played half the season and led the team in points by 16, in goals by nine. He played 41 games. Our second-leading scorer was a defenseman, albeit a very good one in Letang. The guy we need to carry us while Crosby's out is Malkin, but he wasn't even a point-per-game player before his injury last year. And hasn't really looked like a franchise player since the coaching change, imo. Yeah I know, he was the Conn Smythe trophy winner. If Geno can play at that 1.50 PPG level he displayed in the '09 playoffs, or at the Olympics for Russia, then we won't have too many issues. But how confident are you that Geno can go back to 1.50 PPG, from the .86 of last year?

I'm going to stop short of saying we're offense-starved without Sid, but I'm concerned--legitimately concerned--about the offense.

Pascal Dupuis or no Pascal Dupuis.

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09-09-2011, 09:32 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Staal had more than Dupuis. But I digress.

No he didn't, they both had 18, tied for 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I can't believe I'd ever see the day where hands become an underrated commodity in the NHL, but it appears as though we've reached that point now.

Last time I checked, we failed to score a goal in Game 7 last spring. No hands. We checked and checked and checked and checked, but no finish.
If only we had some guys with hands like Kovalev and Comrie...wait.


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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
This isn't a slight on Richard Park at all, because I like him and I like the addition. But when is a lot of checkers/grinders too many checkers/grinders? Because there is such a thing, contrary to popular belief. We could add a couple of lazy players tomorrow and still have absolutely no fear that we'd revert back to the "Rob Brown" era. Which I suspect is what a lot of people here fear. That we'd get back to being the "country club" of the past if we brought in more talent up front that wasn't in the "Bylsma mold".
But that's the point, just because someone hits and skates fast doesn't make him less valuable. I take the guy who scores 15 goals and plays solid defense over the guy who scores 15 fanzy goals and plays no defense every time. In todays game, you won't win much if you have floaters on the ice. Did Boston have any floaters in their lineup? I don't think they did, nor Detroit or Vancouver. What players are out there, who score 15 goals a year on the 3rd or 4th line, which would probably result in 20 goals in the top 6. Yashin? You really want Yashin? I'd rather reactivate Kelly Buchberger and Kent Manderville.

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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The way I see it, back then we were swayed way too much over on one side, with not enough players with a defensive conscience, not enough hard-workers, not enough grit overall. But today, we're swayed too much over on the other side. We rely way too much on too few players to generate our offense.
I disagree. You can never have enough defensively responsible players who also chip in offensively.



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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Everybody is looking at the roster and talking about the depth. Yeah, we're deep. Let's talk about scoring depth, though. Crosby played half the season and led the team in points by 16, in goals by nine. He played 41 games. Our second-leading scorer was a defenseman, albeit a very good one in Letang. The guy we need to carry us while Crosby's out is Malkin, but he wasn't even a point-per-game player before his injury last year. And hasn't really looked like a franchise player since the coaching change, imo. Yeah I know, he was the Conn Smythe trophy winner. If Geno can play at that 1.50 PPG level he displayed in the '09 playoffs, or at the Olympics for Russia, then we won't have too many issues. But how confident are you that Geno can go back to 1.50 PPG, from the .86 of last year?
I'm going to stop short of saying we're offense-starved without Sid, but I'm concerned--legitimately concerned--about the offense.

Pascal Dupuis or no Pascal Dupuis.
Besides Crosby, Malkin and Staal missed have the season as well, last season was not what one would consider normal. Dupuis still managed 17 goals, I'm very glad we had him and still do.

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09-09-2011, 10:58 AM
  #120
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How I see the game of hockey in general, if you can score 2 goals average and play locktight defensively, you'll be successful. If you can score 3 while doing that, you'll probably be tops in the league.

If you score 5 a game, but play a wide opened style that gives up scoring chances...you're going to give up goals. I think it's easier to stop an offensive team than it is to rely on scoring that many goals a game to win.

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09-09-2011, 11:22 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Staal had more than Dupuis. But I digress.

I can't believe I'd ever see the day where hands become an underrated commodity in the NHL, but it appears as though we've reached that point now.

Last time I checked, we failed to score a goal in Game 7 last spring. No hands. We checked and checked and checked and checked, but no finish.

This isn't a slight on Richard Park at all, because I like him and I like the addition. But when is a lot of checkers/grinders too many checkers/grinders? Because there is such a thing, contrary to popular belief. We could add a couple of lazy players tomorrow and still have absolutely no fear that we'd revert back to the "Rob Brown" era. Which I suspect is what a lot of people here fear. That we'd get back to being the "country club" of the past if we brought in more talent up front that wasn't in the "Bylsma mold".

The way I see it, back then we were swayed way too much over on one side, with not enough players with a defensive conscience, not enough hard-workers, not enough grit overall. But today, we're swayed too much over on the other side. We rely way too much on too few players to generate our offense.

Hey, it'd be great if we kept picking up these bottom sixers to allow the prospects to compete for top six jobs, but that's not even the case is it? We have so many bottom sixers, they spill into the top six.

Everybody is looking at the roster and talking about the depth. Yeah, we're deep. Let's talk about scoring depth, though. Crosby played half the season and led the team in points by 16, in goals by nine. He played 41 games. Our second-leading scorer was a defenseman, albeit a very good one in Letang. The guy we need to carry us while Crosby's out is Malkin, but he wasn't even a point-per-game player before his injury last year. And hasn't really looked like a franchise player since the coaching change, imo. Yeah I know, he was the Conn Smythe trophy winner. If Geno can play at that 1.50 PPG level he displayed in the '09 playoffs, or at the Olympics for Russia, then we won't have too many issues. But how confident are you that Geno can go back to 1.50 PPG, from the .86 of last year?

I'm going to stop short of saying we're offense-starved without Sid, but I'm concerned--legitimately concerned--about the offense.

Pascal Dupuis or no Pascal Dupuis.
+1

Go watch the last two series against Montreal / Tampa if you STILL don't think our offense is a problem. Watching our offense try to score goals during the playoffs was like watching Ray Charles trying to play a game of Jenga.

Just.

Absolutely

Brutal.

When are folks going to accept that we have a serious problem generating offense in crunch time? We've bowed out 2 years in a row because we couldn't put pucks in the back of the net. Plain and simple.

You look across the league at some top teams and our scoring depth doesn't even come close.

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09-09-2011, 11:26 AM
  #122
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Are we dwelling on the Tampa series again, Cassius? Just wondering what day it is...

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09-09-2011, 11:54 AM
  #123
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How I see the game of hockey in general, if you can score 2 goals average and play locktight defensively, you'll be successful. If you can score 3 while doing that, you'll probably be tops in the league.

If you score 5 a game, but play a wide opened style that gives up scoring chances...you're going to give up goals. I think it's easier to stop an offensive team than it is to rely on scoring that many goals a game to win.
I think ur assessment of contemporary hockey is dead on. I think its a devolution of the product, but whatever that's just my opinion. Ur still right. Something doesn't jive tho: if that's the way the game is played why r so many teams bothering to acquire offensive studs? Why don't we just find a few more staals or neals, get rid of our franchise centers and call it a day? I still think u need raw talent. Of course that doesn't mean I want six kovalevs on the team either, but as always I think a good mix is necessary. Our system is effective but effective too much in the vain of puck possession. That's fine but the downside is ur not always as concerned as u should be with making sure pucks go in. I can't count how many games where everyone was dumbfounded as to how we lost. We had the puck so much! We deserved to win! Well its not that simple and regardless of what some may tell themselves our system is no better or worse than any other. It has pros and cons. The big con is u have guys like malkin, neal, and even kennedy, kunitz, and staal, who have their degrees of explosiveness reduced. Doesn't mean its a bad system, but it doesn't elevate itself over any other either just because we bat the puck around in the offensive zone a lot. In short, at this stage we may not need much more skill overall but this notion that puck possession is the be all end all to winning hockey games is a little misleading. U've got to be effective in how u manipulate the puck too, as opposed to just having it a lot. You can still backcheck while having a little more skill. Its not like u always have to have a lot of one and little of the other. That's my thing. There are a lot of guys who are smart offensive players who pass and/or shoot very well and a good many of them work hard too. The idea that a player can't have both skillsets is completely false.

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09-09-2011, 12:04 PM
  #124
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Yep, I hate when people say "we deserved to win because we controlled the puck so much in the offensive zone".

So what? Last time I checked, Stanley Cups weren't awarded to the teams who cycled the puck the longest on the perimeter within the opponents offensive zone.

You have to generate QUALITY scoring chances and be opportunistic about them. We ***** about how Roloson and Halak played amazing.... when really that was far from the case. Both of those guys aren't even top 20 goalies in the league and we made it easy on them. Talk about handing them great goalie stats on a silver platter.

Cycling the puck endlessly, generating weak shots from the perimeter, and not capitalizing on scoring chances is a losing recipe. It makes it super easy on defenses/goaltenders too when you go in with that kinda gameplan.

I'll take 20 shots on net with QUALITY scoring chances over 40 shots from the perimeter with no traffic in front. Right now, our team is all about the latter.

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09-09-2011, 12:10 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I think ur assessment of contemporary hockey is dead on. I think its a devolution of the product, but whatever that's just my opinion. Ur still right. Something doesn't jive tho: if that's the way the game is played why r so many teams bothering to acquire offensive studs? Why don't we just find a few more staals or neals, get rid of our franchise centers and call it a day? I still think u need raw talent. Of course that doesn't mean I want six kovalevs on the team either, but as always I think a good mix is necessary. Our system is effective but effective too much in the vain of puck possession. That's fine but the downside is ur not always as concerned as u should be with making sure pucks go in. I can't count how many games where everyone was dumbfounded as to how we lost. We had the puck so much! We deserved to win! Well its not that simple and regardless of what some may tell themselves our system is no better or worse than any other. It has pros and cons. The big con is u have guys like malkin, neal, and even kennedy, kunitz, and staal, who have their degrees of explosiveness reduced. Doesn't mean its a bad system, but it doesn't elevate itself over any other either just because we bat the puck around in the offensive zone a lot. In short, at this stage we may not need much more skill overall but this notion that puck possession is the be all end all to winning hockey games is a little misleading. U've got to be effective in how u manipulate the puck too, as opposed to just having it a lot. You can still backcheck while having a little more skill. Its not like u always have to have a lot of one and little of the other. That's my thing. There are a lot of guys who are smart offensive players who pass and/or shoot very well and a good many of them work hard too. The idea that a player can't have both skillsets is completely false.
Well, my response to you is that we have Crosby who can score 50, Malkin who I think everyone believes has 50 in him, Neal can be in the 28-30, Kunitz can be in the 25-27 (maybe more), Staal has some goals left in him...maybe around 25, Kennedy can score 20, I think Sullivan still has 20 in him, Letestu, Jeffrey, Dupuis, and Cooke can all score in the mid-upper teens. I mean, it's not like we're hurting for goal scoring. We just don't score flashy goals.

Style points don't win you ****.

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Yep, I hate when people say "we deserved to win because we controlled the puck so much in the offensive zone".

So what? Last time I checked, Stanley Cups weren't awarded to the teams who cycled the puck the longest on the perimeter within the opponents offensive zone.

You have to generate QUALITY scoring chances and be opportunistic about them. We ***** about how Roloson and Halak played amazing.... when really that was far from the case. Both of those guys aren't even top 20 goalies in the league and we made it easy on them. Talk about handing them great goalie stats on a silver platter.

Cycling the puck endlessly, generating weak shots from the perimeter, and not capitalizing on scoring chances is a losing recipe. It makes it super easy on defenses/goaltenders too when you go in with that kinda gameplan.

I'll take 20 shots on net with QUALITY scoring chances over 40 shots from the perimeter with no traffic in front. Right now, our team is all about the latter.
Well the theory is the more you possess the puck, the less the other team possesses the puck. If the other team can't possess the puck, it's mighty hard to score a goal.

Possessing the puck also runs a team down, which increases your chances of being able to score.

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