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Mats Sundin HHOF worthiness

View Poll Results: ??
Yes 113 70.63%
Maybe 20 12.50%
No 27 16.88%
Voters: 160. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-08-2011, 10:31 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
82 points in 91 playoff games and +2.

For a hall of fame caliber player of his era, that's not really overwhelming numbers.
You do realize all of those playoff games were played in the dead puck era, and only 3 players (Jagr, Forsberg, and Sakic) averaged over a point per game during that time? The rest besides Modano and Fedorov were below a .9 point per game average. So for his era yes, he actually had some of the best playoff numbers despite being on a crap team most of the time. His international record speaks for itself as well.

Sundin never had a great supporting cast as far as wingers were concerned. Ottawa was favoured to win most of those series I remember it quite well. In 03-04 Toronto had a good enough team to win the cup though I'll admit that.

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09-08-2011, 10:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by unknown33 View Post
Mats gets eligible next year so what is your opinion on him?

For what it's worth his playing career on it's own would make him borderline, but considering his 'Face of the Franchise' status, International credentials and 'Fame' Mats Sundin is 100% HHoF worthy for me.


The poll's question is whether YOU think he is worthy and not if he gets elected or not.

His 15 peak seasons, considering the personal he had to work with gets him in the international stuff is icing on the cake. He could have had his career in Florida and he still gets in IMO.

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Old
09-08-2011, 11:00 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
In my ideal Hall of Fame, he's not worthy (although a fringe candidate).

In the real Hall of Fame? He's more worthy than a lot of those that have made it. I don't see why not.
Just wondering if there are more than 100 guys in your ideal HHOF?

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09-08-2011, 11:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxMan View Post
Mats Sundin was always a good player but he was never a great player. If you look at his stats over a career they look very good. But when you look at the seasons individually he was just a consistently good player. He's missing that one season where he dominated and was considered a top 2 player in the league. He doesn't have that so I don't think he belongs.
Not even the year he scored 114pts?

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09-08-2011, 11:22 PM
  #30
Ruslan Zainullin
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564 goals and 1300+ points? yeah, i put him in for sure, im with the guy who said he could have put up these numbers in florida and still get in. plus he played in the years of the trap when goals were scarce and still put up great numbers.

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09-08-2011, 11:34 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Not even the year he scored 114pts?
He wasn't even top 10 in points that year. 92-93 was a very high scoring season. His highest finish is 4th I believe sometime in the late 90's.

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09-08-2011, 11:41 PM
  #32
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I ****ing love your user name.

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09-08-2011, 11:57 PM
  #33
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^ Mine?

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09-09-2011, 12:51 AM
  #34
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I was on the "no" side for years and years, but I'm firmly on the "yes" side now...

wow, was it just ATD12 that I was arguing he was as good as Modano? Or better even? That's just wrong.... but yeah, Sundin was great. offensively, he was a 5% better version of Turgeon, plus he was acceptable defensively, not soft, a longtime captain, has the whole "face of a franchise" tag and the international achievements.

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09-09-2011, 02:32 AM
  #35
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in my hof he is on the outside, but certainly close. Sundin to me defined the threshold of very good and elite. Nobody ever would have thought he was an elite player, but he was consistently a very good player. Considering the HHOF inducts basically anybody who could be a top 6 player for 10 years he will get in, but if it was to truly recognize the elite of each era he should not be in.

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09-09-2011, 03:03 AM
  #36
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6 WC medals (3 gold), Olympic gold, first european born player to be drafted 1st overall, leads swedes in goals, assists, points (NHL), him and Dionne are the only two players who has scored atleast 20 goals in their first 16 seasons, Canada Cup All-star team (91 and 96), face of the Maple Leafs franchise, face of the swedish national team. Yes, he is HHoF worthy.

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09-09-2011, 10:13 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Nobody ever would have thought he was an elite player, but he was consistently a very good player.

When Canada was playing against him I kind of considered him elite, i think he was boderline elite in the nhl but definetely elite on international team.

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09-09-2011, 01:10 PM
  #38
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No, No way...Said it before will say it again: He was a compiler with low character.. He almost crippled Bourque with a couple of dirty low hits, and the then we have the whole vancouver fiasco. Despite that, the combination of compiling, being on the Leafs and his excellent international play will get him in the hall. On that day, I will not be happy.
I never heard this before, but Sundin and Bourque getting into a fight in the 1996 or 1997 season does ring a bell. Were the two related?

Second question - do you have a clip of this? Seems strange that a 6'5" guy can throw a "low" hit on a 5'11" guy.

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09-09-2011, 02:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I never heard this before, but Sundin and Bourque getting into a fight in the 1996 or 1997 season does ring a bell. Were the two related?

Second question - do you have a clip of this? Seems strange that a 6'5" guy can throw a "low" hit on a 5'11" guy.


I remember that Bourque said he had no respect for Sundin, because he thought he was a dirty player who often did things like this when the referee weren't looking, knowing that Tie Domi and Kris King would back him up.

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09-09-2011, 02:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I was on the "no" side for years and years, but I'm firmly on the "yes" side now...

wow, was it just ATD12 that I was arguing he was as good as Modano? Or better even? That's just wrong.... but yeah, Sundin was great. offensively, he was a 5% better version of Turgeon, plus he was acceptable defensively, not soft, a longtime captain, has the whole "face of a franchise" tag and the international achievements.
You should throw Modano a vote in the Sundin/Modano/Nieuwendyk poll, if you haven't already. He's losing by ten votes, he needs your help.

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09-09-2011, 02:57 PM
  #41
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Vancouver Fiasco ?

From what I remember Sundin was the best canucks in the playoff. How can it be a fiasco and how a half-season can change that much to a career (i mean in a negative sense, if you do not kill nobody).

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09-09-2011, 03:08 PM
  #42
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I remember that Bourque said he had no respect for Sundin, because he thought he was a dirty player who often did things like this when the referee weren't looking, knowing that Tie Domi and Kris King would back him up.
I take it this wasn't one of the "dirty low hits", then?

yes, this has to be the "fight" I remember. Although it's difficult to see what Sundin did other than get his left hand into Bourque's face very briefly. This was certainly not characteristic of him.

you caught me on an easygoing day too... I was all ready to watch and say "ok, that was dirty."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono Trigger View Post
You should throw Modano a vote in the Sundin/Modano/Nieuwendyk poll, if you haven't already. He's losing by ten votes, he needs your help.
haha, i don't care about those polls, a poll in this section would never go that way, and that's what counts.

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09-09-2011, 03:31 PM
  #43
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He's a lock.

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09-09-2011, 03:40 PM
  #44
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Ya, he is in.
Never a SUPERSTAR, but he was consistantly very good for a long period of time...he is the Swedish Mark Messier.

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09-09-2011, 03:54 PM
  #45
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Messier was more a superstars, in some points in the 90' some polls asked witch player do you take for the next playoff, Lindros, Jagr or Messier.

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09-09-2011, 03:57 PM
  #46
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Messier was more a superstars, in some points in the 90' some polls asked witch player do you take for the next playoff, Lindros, Jagr or Messier.
And most people would have picked Messier.

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09-09-2011, 04:00 PM
  #47
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do not know if he would have more than 50%, because at this time Lindros and Jagr were so big beast, but yeah he would have maybe more than 33%.

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09-09-2011, 04:01 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Chrono Trigger View Post
You do realize all of those playoff games were played in the dead puck era, and only 3 players (Jagr, Forsberg, and Sakic) averaged over a point per game during that time? The rest besides Modano and Fedorov were below a .9 point per game average. So for his era yes, he actually had some of the best playoff numbers despite being on a crap team most of the time. His international record speaks for itself as well.

Sundin never had a great supporting cast as far as wingers were concerned. Ottawa was favoured to win most of those series I remember it quite well. In 03-04 Toronto had a good enough team to win the cup though I'll admit that.
OK, then I guess 82 points in 91 games is overwhelming.

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09-09-2011, 04:06 PM
  #49
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It his obvisouly elite offensive production for playoff in those specific years for me.

Sundin was a big game clutch guy and a very very consistent performer also, some of his season sound not as much because of his era, in some year's like 96-97 (41-53) would have been a 100 points season in some others years.

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09-09-2011, 04:11 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I take it this wasn't one of the "dirty low hits", then?

yes, this has to be the "fight" I remember. Although it's difficult to see what Sundin did other than get his left hand into Bourque's face very briefly. This was certainly not characteristic of him.

you caught me on an easygoing day too... I was all ready to watch and say "ok, that was dirty."



haha, i don't care about those polls, a poll in this section would never go that way, and that's what counts.
Sundin slams Bourque's head into the glass when they originally go in.

Very weird that these 2 classy guys had a running feud for so long.

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