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Which is more important?

View Poll Results: Which is more important?
A top 3 Forward scoring 30+ goals 12 35.29%
A potent Power Play 22 64.71%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-08-2011, 12:56 PM
  #1
Firestorm
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Which is more important?

A poll on the Penguins board made me think of a similar poll that we could do for here. For the 2011-2012 Nashville Predators, which of these is more important?

1) Acquiring a Top 3 Forward with 30+ goals

OR

2) A potent Power Play

Remember, we all know both of these are important, but I want you to pick one over the other and explain why.

(Mods, I think that this poll idea is worthy enough for its own thread).


Last edited by Firestorm: 09-08-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old
09-08-2011, 01:00 PM
  #2
Shea Weber
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They kinda go hand in hand. A strong power play will produce more goals and therefore help you have more 30+ goal scorers.....on the other hand, strong scorers will yield a strong power play.

That said I picked strong pp.

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Old
09-08-2011, 01:10 PM
  #3
Everlong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
They kinda go hand in hand. A strong power play will produce more goals and therefore help you have more 30+ goal scorers.....on the other hand, strong scorers will yield a strong power play.
I partially agree with this but I selected a 30 goal player. As I see it, it takes more commitment, and practice to keep a great powerplay successful, resulting in an eventual plateau from time to time. Also, you can't always count on a penalty to get you a goal. A 30+ goal forward is always dangerous, at any point of the game, not just with the man-advantage.

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Old
09-08-2011, 01:17 PM
  #4
PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shea Weber View Post
They kinda go hand in hand. A strong power play will produce more goals and therefore help you have more 30+ goal scorers.....on the other hand, strong scorers will yield a strong power play.

That said I picked strong pp.
in line with this, the potent scorer would almost certainly help the PP as well.

if we can improve the PP with the people currently on the roster, the big scorer becomes a luxury, not a necessity

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Old
09-08-2011, 01:24 PM
  #5
MrJoshua
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Power play, without a doubt. Find a way to get the power play to be decent, or even good, and this team will rise several spots in the offensive rankings. They were good in 5-on-5 scoring last year and should be again this year with upgrades at center (Fisher > Goc, IMO). If the PP can be effective this will be a very good team.

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Old
09-08-2011, 01:27 PM
  #6
Roman Yoshi
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30 goal scorer can play on the power play and 5v5. So that is the obvious choice. Plus we need me skill on our PP for it to be successful anyway

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Old
09-08-2011, 01:38 PM
  #7
TMI
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Considering our 5-on-5 offense was something like 11th or 12th in the league last year without a single 30 goal scorer, I went with the potent PP. As others have mentioned, a successful power play will likely end up getting a guy to the 30 goal range anyway, but even if it doesn't it would help our overall offense. The Preds score by committee 5-on-5, so they get away with having points spread out over a lot of players. If they can find a way to translate that game to the PP then it would be pretty tough to defend against.

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Old
09-08-2011, 02:16 PM
  #8
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
I partially agree with this but I selected a 30 goal player. As I see it, it takes more commitment, and practice to keep a great powerplay successful, resulting in an eventual plateau from time to time. Also, you can't always count on a penalty to get you a goal. A 30+ goal forward is always dangerous, at any point of the game, not just with the man-advantage.
This pretty much matches my reasoning.

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Old
09-08-2011, 03:35 PM
  #9
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We can be a very successful team with a slightly above average PP with all other factors remaining constant. We've had 30g scorers and not had a good PP.

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Old
09-08-2011, 04:28 PM
  #10
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A consistently effective power play will win us more games and keep us in more games than a 30 goal scorer.

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Old
09-08-2011, 05:24 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
A consistently effective power play will win us more games and keep us in more games than a 30 goal scorer.
This completely disregards the play offs, during which an effective power play makes our team almost unstoppable.

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Old
09-08-2011, 06:03 PM
  #12
Firestorm
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How did we rank in terms of PP opportunities?

There are some things that a working PP can't save us from, especially when the other team doesn't take a lot of penalties, or at the end of the game where it doesn't seem likely that a PP will come.

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Old
09-08-2011, 06:21 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
This pretty much matches my reasoning.
I remember a few years ago, Columbus started off the first few months of the season with a terrific PP and Hitchcock said that he feared the players were relying on the PP too much and their 5v5 play suffered because they were just waiting to get on the PP. Did I make that up or is it a true story?

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Old
09-08-2011, 06:28 PM
  #14
Roman Yoshi
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A top 3 forward improves the powerplay...

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Old
09-08-2011, 07:28 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
A top 3 forward improves the powerplay...
So does a QB or simply passing the puck quickly, winning faceoffs in the offensive zone, or entering the zone ready to establish possession.

Look at the 30g scorers who played for teams that didn't make the post season. 30+ goal scorers does not mean success. If it did, Calgary would have been higher in the standings than the Preds and the Ducks would have won round one.

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Old
09-08-2011, 07:31 PM
  #16
glenngineer
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A top forward does not guarantee an improved PP. Look at Washington last year. They've got some pretty good offensive talent last time I checked and their PP was in the bottom third of the league. Pittsburgh's PP, even before Malkin and Crosby went down, haven't been stellar the last few years either.

If we improve the PP with the team we had last year, we are serious contenders for the Cup. We scored once against Vancouver in the playoffs last year or maybe not at all if I recall and once against Chicago the year before. Scoring once on the PP in a 6 game series seals your fate. We score a few more times on the PP and either series could have gone either way. This team can score at even strength, it's proven that. We need a PP that puts up a better percentage, plain and simple.

We could add a 30 goal scorer and if we use the same schemes and have the same execution we'll have the same results. This is a coaching and execution issue more than a player(s) issue. This has also been a problem the last few years and it hasn't been addressed.

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Old
09-08-2011, 08:04 PM
  #17
Paranoid Android
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I disagree. I think it's mainly a personnel issue. Our current group of players do not have the skill set that favors the PP. And that includes Weber and Suter. Coaching does play a part, but it's smaller. Even with the best PP coaches in the world, I don't think we get a top PP. But swap out a few current players with better PP players, and I think we can be top 10.

I wonder is having some new blood in the staff will help.

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Old
09-08-2011, 09:28 PM
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glenngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I disagree. I think it's mainly a personnel issue. Our current group of players do not have the skill set that favors the PP. And that includes Weber and Suter. Coaching does play a part, but it's smaller. Even with the best PP coaches in the world, I don't think we get a top PP. But swap out a few current players with better PP players, and I think we can be top 10.

I wonder is having some new blood in the staff will help.
So tell me how a PP of Ovie, Backstrom, Semin, Green and Knuble were below average? Or a unit with Crosby and Malkin on it were below average. Even Chicago with all their talent didn't put up great numbers. Yet you have a team like Montreal that has been at or near the top the last bunch of years without elite talent?

It may not be coaching or personnel but the chemistry within the personnel. I think chemistry is what's lacking more than anything.

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09-08-2011, 09:51 PM
  #19
Paranoid Android
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I didn't say elite talent. I said talent whose skill set does not translate well to the PP.

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09-08-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I remember a few years ago, Columbus started off the first few months of the season with a terrific PP and Hitchcock said that he feared the players were relying on the PP too much and their 5v5 play suffered because they were just waiting to get on the PP. Did I make that up or is it a true story?
There was a point at which Hitch thought things were going along too easily, particularly on the PP, but it was more of a general "we're being sloppy because we haven't been punished for that sloppiness yet" malaise.

Incidentally, that was also the season he was fired.

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Old
09-08-2011, 10:23 PM
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Everything else falls in place with a potent powerplay. Teams are less likely to make dumb penalties, which can in turn spark offensive output.

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Old
09-08-2011, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
A top forward does not guarantee an improved PP. Look at Washington last year. They've got some pretty good offensive talent last time I checked and their PP was in the bottom third of the league. Pittsburgh's PP, even before Malkin and Crosby went down, haven't been stellar the last few years either.

If we improve the PP with the team we had last year, we are serious contenders for the Cup. We scored once against Vancouver in the playoffs last year or maybe not at all if I recall and once against Chicago the year before. Scoring once on the PP in a 6 game series seals your fate. We score a few more times on the PP and either series could have gone either way. This team can score at even strength, it's proven that. We need a PP that puts up a better percentage, plain and simple.

We could add a 30 goal scorer and if we use the same schemes and have the same execution we'll have the same results. This is a coaching and execution issue more than a player(s) issue. This has also been a problem the last few years and it hasn't been addressed.
I think you proved the point. but not the question. what is more important a 30 goal scorer or an improved pp. I picked 30 goal scorer because as you stated the pp won't be better but overall the teams suceed despite the pp problems. Now we are dealing with hypotethicals on both. The reason I picked the 30 goal scorer because as you stated it's chemistry or coaching that could be the reason for the pp but when a legit scorer on this team make everybody better and pp depends on a coaching staff that doesn't even acknowledge that we have a bad pp and doesn't know how to fix it and a 30 goal scorer will score despite the coach and the philosphy because even defensive minded coach won't mess too much with a good thing

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Old
09-09-2011, 12:20 AM
  #23
TMI
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Because a single PP unit doesn't make an entire PP. Our offense is based on other teams having to decide against which line to defend. That's how scoring by committee works. Eventually they have to put a weaker defensive group out against a line that can still threaten. On the PP that doesn't happen. The opposition has their PK units set, and those units simply need to maintain position until they clear the puck. I don't think it's as simple as saying it's either a coaching problem or a personnel problem. It's a bit of each, but I do tend to lean towards the "it's a personnel issue" line of reasoning. The thing is, we don't have a PP unit that is the most fearsome. Once you negate Weber you essentially make the first and second PP units the same. Scoring by committee just doesn't work with the man advantage.

edit: So maybe adding that player makes our PP better. Maybe the other team has to defend both Weber and player X. We had a 30 goal scorer in 2009-2010. Our PP didn't set cities on fire.

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Old
09-09-2011, 02:00 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Because a single PP unit doesn't make an entire PP. Our offense is based on other teams having to decide against which line to defend. That's how scoring by committee works. Eventually they have to put a weaker defensive group out against a line that can still threaten. On the PP that doesn't happen. The opposition has their PK units set, and those units simply need to maintain position until they clear the puck. I don't think it's as simple as saying it's either a coaching problem or a personnel problem. It's a bit of each, but I do tend to lean towards the "it's a personnel issue" line of reasoning. The thing is, we don't have a PP unit that is the most fearsome. Once you negate Weber you essentially make the first and second PP units the same. Scoring by committee just doesn't work with the man advantage.

edit: So maybe adding that player makes our PP better. Maybe the other team has to defend both Weber and player X. We had a 30 goal scorer in 2009-2010. Our PP didn't set cities on fire.
But we didn't have legit 30 goal scorer ...Kariya was on the downside but he had enough for him to excel here but he wasn't the player he was when he was on the Ducks. Like Hornqvist scored 30 goals in 09-10. Is he a 30 goal scorer or did he just get all the breaks and what is he now...that is another question for another post...but the point we have never had a legit goal scorer and maybe we(Preds)Trotz) don't won't one..Radulov could have been that person....

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Old
09-09-2011, 09:03 AM
  #25
token grinder
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I want a PP to click around 18 percent, without sacrificing the pk. We are good enough 5 v 5 that if we can get that there, we will be an even tougher team to put away.

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