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Old
09-09-2011, 01:12 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
It does matter though. Profits for True North mean more money to spend when the time comes.

Also, if we aren't going to make the playoffs, a cheap contract like that can turn into a tasty pick at deadline time.

If Wellwood is a total flop, it's much easier to stomach at 700k than at 1.5MM

There is generally a very callous attitude from fans towards NHL owners, but in our case I think we should be more appreciative and supportive of the guys who brought hockey back here. I for one want to see them make buckets of cash.
This.
With the expection of the term "tasty pick". Too many odd images conjured up in my head of Buff and Wellwood waiting stage left at the draft salivating...

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09-09-2011, 01:16 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
This.
With the expection of the term "tasty pick". Too many odd images conjured up in my head of Buff and Wellwood waiting stage left at the draft salivating...
WEAKEST fat joke yet... That should put an end to them.

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09-09-2011, 01:24 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by wpggrown View Post
WEAKEST fat joke yet... That should put an end to them.
Mission accomplished?

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09-09-2011, 01:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Mission accomplished?
Yessir.

With the exception of Lynk's zinger earlier in the thread, Buff and Wellwood fat jokes are about as funny and relevant as a rerun episode of Family Matters.


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09-09-2011, 01:41 PM
  #80
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Whoa whoa, let's not get crazy.

Steve Urkel was hilarious.

Except when he transformed into Stefan Urquelle.


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09-09-2011, 01:44 PM
  #81
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09-09-2011, 02:26 PM
  #82
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09-09-2011, 02:59 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpggrown View Post
As a former Leafs fan, I remember the 06-07 season...Wellwood and Sundin were tearing it up (Wellwood had 42 in 48gms) before Kyle was injured. We've all heard his prospect report back in the day, know he has great vision and hands... If he takes this seriously his upside is competing for the 2nd line Center spot (moving someone to wing) and very well could Center our 2nd line PP.
That's playing with Mats Sundin, you should expect something around the Kyle Wellwood I saw playing in Vancouver. This is a low risk move but don't expect him to tear it up or anything. He's been given a lot of second chances in the big leagues, and hasn't ever responded by breaking out beyond being a reliable, if uninspired 3rd liner.

That said, he's great in the shootout, can work the puck excellently around the net when he puts his mind to it and actually really turned it on during playoffs in his last season with the Canucks.

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Old
09-09-2011, 03:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hammer Slammer View Post
Exactly what I've been trying to say over twitter. He looked good in the later half of last season with the Sharks and into the playoffs. He was in shape. I've been tired of the fat and buffet jokes since 10 minutes after they started.
You got retweeted by someone I follow. Now I can't remember your username. You'd be worthy of a follow

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09-09-2011, 03:42 PM
  #85
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The bottom two lines already had too many players -- now it's just going to be even more difficult for some of these guys to crack the lineup.

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09-09-2011, 04:32 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
You got retweeted by someone I follow. Now I can't remember your username. You'd be worthy of a follow
Haha, well I have two. Hammer_Slammer is the personal one and JetsFly2gether is the other one.

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09-09-2011, 04:37 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primetimey View Post
The bottom two lines already had too many players -- now it's just going to be even more difficult for some of these guys to crack the lineup.
No it really didn't. Unless you're ok with having rookies in the line-up that aren't ready.

Ladd-Little-Wheeler
Kane-Burmistrov-Fehr
Glass/Maxwell/Stapleton/Machacek/Cormier-Wellwood-Antropov
Glass/Maxwell/Stapleton/Machacek/Cormier-Slater(hopefully)-Thorburn

The last couple of spots are still up for grabs.

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09-09-2011, 04:58 PM
  #88
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30 minutes in the penalty box for his whole NHL career (373 games). What kind of guy is this?

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09-09-2011, 05:41 PM
  #89
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30 minutes in the penalty box for his whole NHL career (373 games). What kind of guy is this?
That's why whenever Van was penalized for bench minor/goalie/etc... Vigneault always sent Wellwood to the box as an "inside joke"

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Old
09-09-2011, 07:01 PM
  #90
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I SURVIVED! Woohoo! In your face people!

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09-09-2011, 07:50 PM
  #91
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He has the potential to be a good player, When he was on the leafs I thought he actually was good, and had a good future.
Thing is, horrible work ethic and weight problems have plagued him
The contract is pretty decent, not hard to get rid of, and you get to give him a chance to shine.

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09-09-2011, 07:59 PM
  #92
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09-09-2011, 08:11 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by jomas View Post
He has the potential to be a good player, When he was on the leafs I thought he actually was good, and had a good future.
Thing is, horrible work ethic and weight problems have plagued him
The contract is pretty decent, not hard to get rid of, and you get to give him a chance to shine.
First post I agree with and is fact. I mean I traded Getzlaf for him and Boyes in a league. Looks bad now. lol

But I did get Getz in another league so yay!

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Old
09-09-2011, 11:11 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
It does matter though. Profits for True North mean more money to spend when the time comes.

Also, if we aren't going to make the playoffs, a cheap contract like that can turn into a tasty pick at deadline time.

If Wellwood is a total flop, it's much easier to stomach at 700k than at 1.5MM

There is generally a very callous attitude from fans towards NHL owners, but in our case I think we should be more appreciative and supportive of the guys who brought hockey back here. I for one want to see them make buckets of cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpggrown View Post
Ridiculous.

This is somebody's real money we are talking aboot. I absolutely care whether or not Wellwood signed at 700K as opposed to 3mil. I support my team all the way up to ownership. It SHOULD matter to us fans because the 2.3 mil difference is huge and our ownership will have that much less of a loss/more of a profit to ensure ownership/team stability. If you had a choice would you pick to sign him at 3mil or 700k? Which is better regardless of the cap situation for the team? If you reply you don't care, that's just weird!

EDIT: sorry to rant haha
Jet:

when will the time come to spend more money?....

why do you assume the jets will not make the playoffs?...planning to capitalize on failure seems to be a dubious strategy

for whom is it easier to stomach if he is a flop but doesnt cost much....the on ice performance of the team will be damaged just as much if he is a flop at $700k or $1.5m...if we miss the playoffs because our players are not good enough will you think that is any more acceptable because our payroll was low?

i fully support true north...to the tune of $3k in tickets and probably half that in beer, but hoping they make a big profit by signing cheap players is an odd attitude.


wpggrown:

the revenue for this team is solidified for the next several years....hoping that they only sign cheap players to ensure economic stability is what is weird....fans should want the best players, not the ones who are the best value....i am not saying they should overpay, im saying that applauding a move because it is a monetary bargain is strange.....what he gets paid has nothing to do with value to the team.....he's not more valuable on the ice if he is cheap.

it may be that we can only afford $700k third line centremen, but i really find it bizarre that the evaluation of every player we have signed is always based on some relative monetary value as if we are buying a couch from sears.

i want the best third line centre we can get....if that means we have to pay him $3m then so be it....what he makes is irrelevant to me....would you applaud true north for passing on a $3m 30 point guy because they could sign a $1m 20 point guy?

my point is that evaluating moves true north makes should have nothing do do with what value they got for their money....if a 20 point KHLer is really the calibre of our third line centre, that's fine, but it doesnt make it any better because we can say 'at least he's cheap'....

if we miss the playoffs, i dont think it will hold much weight if i tell my friends in vancouver....we may be crappy, but our payroll was really low and our owners made a lot of money.


Last edited by peter sullivan: 09-09-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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Old
09-09-2011, 11:19 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
Jet:

when will the time come to spend more money?....

why do you assume the jets will not make the playoffs?...planning to capitalize on failure seems to be a dubious strategy

for whom is it easier to stomach if he is a flop but doesnt cost much....the on ice performance of the team will be damaged just as much if he is a flop at $700k or $3m...if we miss the playoffs because our players are not good enough will you think that is any more acceptable because our payroll was low?

i fully support true north...to the tune of $3k in tickets and probably half that in beer, but hoping they make a big profit by signing cheap players is an odd attitude.


wpggrown:

the revenue for this team is solidified for the next several years....hoping that they only sign cheap players to ensure economic stability is what is weird....fans should want the best players, not the ones who are the best value.

it may be that we can only afford $700k third line centremen, but i really find it bizarre that the evaluation of every player we have signed is always based on some relative monetary value as if we are buying a couch from sears.

i want the best third line centre we can get....if that means we have to pay him $3m then so be it....what he makes is irrelevant to me....would you applaud true north for passing on a $3m 30 point guy because they could sign a $1m 20 point guy?

my point is that evaluating moves true north makes should have nothing do do with what value they got for their money....if a 20 point KHLer is really the calibre of our third line centre, that's fine, but it doesnt make it any better because we can say 'at least he's cheap'....

if we miss the playoffs, i dont think it will hold much weight if i tell my friends in vancouver....we may be crappy, but our payroll was really low and our owners made a lot of money.
I'm glad you're not our GM . I fundamentally disagree with everything you said, so rather than post (again) why I disagree. Just take all your core beliefs about a teams economics and reverse them, that is my position. If return on investment doesn't factor in to your decisions you're lost.

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09-09-2011, 11:25 PM
  #96
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$3 million for a 3rd line center? I hope you realize the raises you will have to be paying out over the next 2 years.

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09-09-2011, 11:28 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I'm glad you're not our GM . I fundamentally disagree with everything you said, so rather than post (again) why I disagree. Just take all your core beliefs about a teams economics and reverse them, that is my position. If return on investment doesn't factor in to your decisions you're lost.
that's exactly my point...im not the GM....what his payroll restrictions are is his problem not ours....why does everyone evaluate players from the GM's perspective and not the fan's perspective...

return on true north's investment doesnt matter at all to me....

return on MY investment does matter to me quite a lot.....i will be investing $12k over the next 4 years just in tickets alone and the return on that investment will be the best team possible on the ice...

my investment isnt any better if the team is bad, but cheap for the owners...

im not even saying this was a bad acquisition...im just saying it isnt any better because it came cheaply....

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09-09-2011, 11:30 PM
  #98
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Duke makes an excellent point, which I think needs to be elaborated on. If you pay a third line center who produces 20 points a year 3 mill a year. What happens when a 80 point first line player becomes a FA? He's going to point to the 3rd liner and claim he should earn 12 mil a year, since he's 4 times as productive.
Everything is connected, you can't overpay one position and not others...

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
that's exactly my point...im not the GM....what his payroll restrictions are is his problem not ours....why does everyone evaluate players from the GM's perspective and not the fan's perspective...

return on true north's investment doesnt matter at all to me....

return on MY investment does matter to me quite a lot.....i will be investing $12k over the next 4 years just in tickets alone and the return on that investment will be the best team possible on the ice...

my investment isnt any better if the team is bad, but cheap for the owners...
Me and Chevy have one major thing in common, we want to win. Clearly we're never going to agree, I don't think overpaying someone cause you can is a good idea. Why get in the habit? Pay people what there market value is..

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Old
09-09-2011, 11:36 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
Jet:

when will the time come to spend more money?....

why do you assume the jets will not make the playoffs?...planning to capitalize on failure seems to be a dubious strategy

for whom is it easier to stomach if he is a flop but doesnt cost much....the on ice performance of the team will be damaged just as much if he is a flop at $700k or $1.5m...if we miss the playoffs because our players are not good enough will you think that is any more acceptable because our payroll was low?

i fully support true north...to the tune of $3k in tickets and probably half that in beer, but hoping they make a big profit by signing cheap players is an odd attitude.
You spend more money when its appropriate: i.e. when the team has developed it's core sufficiently to be a playoff team and have a chance at a cup. You spend to keep your core and to suppliment that core with players that address your weaknesses. You don't spend to appease your fanbase when it doesn't help the bottom line, a competitive, winning team.

Now is the time to evaluate the players we have on the roster and in the system. The Wellwood deal is good because The Jets knew that they were weak on the draw and at C in general, and they addressed that in a very financially and cap responsible way (cap in the aspect of not signing a player with a long contract, not specifically dollar amount)

Also, I am not assuming the Jets won't make the playoffs. On the contrary, I have hope the team will make the post season. I merely was saying IF the team doesn't make the playoffs, Wellwood could get us a decent pick if he plays well with that contract.

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Old
09-09-2011, 11:37 PM
  #100
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wpgsilver: i totally agree....i am not saying we should pay 20 point guys $3m....im saying that 20 point guys are no more valuable because they are cheap.....he is being evaluated on a graduated scale of economic value, when he should be evaluated on how much better he is than our opposition's third line centre.

if he is better than the third line centre on our competitor's then i applaud this move....if he is worse, but cheaper, then i am critical.

nobody is saying we should overpay...im saying we should be hoping for the best players possible regardless of salary.

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