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10 best offensive years for rookies?

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09-10-2011, 10:13 AM
  #1
drive45
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10 best offensive years for rookies?

Could someone please post lists of the top ten rookie seasons in terms of goals, assists, and points? Perhaps even pwr ply gls and sh gls?

I don't understand why NHL.com doesn't let you filter for rookies when looking at single-season marks.

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09-10-2011, 10:49 AM
  #2
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Finally I've learned how to use Hockey-Reference: Link

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09-10-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive45 View Post
Could someone please post lists of the top ten rookie seasons in terms of goals, assists, and points? Perhaps even pwr ply gls and sh gls?

I don't understand why NHL.com doesn't let you filter for rookies when looking at single-season marks.


use hockey-reference.com - you can filter much better on that site. LINK

These are NHL rookies, some of these players had already played several years of pro-hockey in Europe or the WHA, notably Selanne, The Stastnys, Mike Rogers.

The name Blair MacDonald is pretty interesting, played on Gretzky's RW in their first season. You can see the 99-impact immediately. Blair was Bernie Nicholls, before Bernie Nicholls.

I think Selanne's season was outstanding, obviously.

Crosby's is extremely impressive given his age.

99 is 99 - let's leave it at that.


Last edited by redbull: 09-10-2011 at 10:52 AM. Reason: FinHockey - beat me to it!
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09-10-2011, 11:09 AM
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JackFr
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Is there any way to sort by adjusted stats on hockey reference? You can't judge seasons against eachother without adjusting.

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09-10-2011, 11:19 AM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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The WHA guys weren't considered rookies, hence why Gretzky didn't win the Calder, whereas Selanne, Makarov and Stastny did, despite being older.

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09-10-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
The WHA guys weren't considered rookies, hence why Gretzky didn't win the Calder, whereas Selanne, Makarov and Stastny did, despite being older.
Also, Makarov is the reason why there's a cut-off age for Calder trophy eligibility today.

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09-10-2011, 12:53 PM
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Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
Is there any way to sort by adjusted stats on hockey reference? You can't judge seasons against eachother without adjusting.
I think one could do it manually and also comments on team situations would help give a clearer picture.

Denis Potvins rookie year won't be on this list but his is one of the best ever given his team context IMO.

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09-10-2011, 01:10 PM
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You have to rank Ovys season number 2 or 3 don't you? At the very least number 3.

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09-10-2011, 01:24 PM
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If we are ranking and not using raw stats. Nels Stewart has to be 1 or 2. He lead the league in goals and points.

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09-10-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
You have to rank Ovys season number 2 or 3 don't you? At the very least number 3.
I think the most impressive are, in no particular order:

Wayne Gretzky, simply because of his age, the fact he led the league in scoring (tied with Dionne) and had such a drastic impact on the game as whole in that first season.

Mario Lemieux, Crosby and Hawerchuk - coming right from junior hockey (at 18 years old) to put up those numbers, on pretty bad teams, is incredible.

Ovy had played elite level hockey before, makes a huge difference.

Bossy broke in as a 20 year old after 4yrs in Laval, played with some pretty good players. Not to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie, far from it, but all statistics need to be taken with proper context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post

Denis Potvins rookie year won't be on this list but his is one of the best ever given his team context IMO.
considering he led the team in scoring right out of junior, the team cut their goals against by 100 - I'd have to agree with you 100%!

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09-10-2011, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I think the most impressive are, in no particular order:

Wayne Gretzky, simply because of his age, the fact he led the league in scoring (tied with Dionne) and had such a drastic impact on the game as whole in that first season.

Mario Lemieux, Crosby and Hawerchuk - coming right from junior hockey (at 18 years old) to put up those numbers, on pretty bad teams, is incredible.

Ovy had played elite level hockey before, makes a huge difference.

Bossy broke in as a 20 year old after 4yrs in Laval, played with some pretty good players. Not to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie, far from it, but all statistics need to be taken with proper context.



considering he led the team in scoring right out of junior, the team cut their goals against by 100 - I'd have to agree with you 100%!

I did a quite look at some of the top guys adjusted, but not the WHA, or early NHL guys, and here is how they stacked up adjusted

Selanne 84-62-45-107
AO 81-52-52-104
Sid 81-39-60-99
Malkin 78-35-52-87
Peter Stastny 77-30-54-84
Trottier 80-27-55-82
Bossy 73-47-34-81
Mario 73-34-45-77
Hawerchuck 80-33-42-75

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09-10-2011, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post


use hockey-reference.com - you can filter much better on that site. LINK

These are NHL rookies, some of these players had already played several years of pro-hockey in Europe or the WHA, notably Selanne, The Stastnys, Mike Rogers.

The name Blair MacDonald is pretty interesting, played on Gretzky's RW in their first season. You can see the 99-impact immediately. Blair was Bernie Nicholls, before Bernie Nicholls.

I think Selanne's season was outstanding, obviously.

Crosby's is extremely impressive given his age.

99 is 99 - let's leave it at that.
Joe Juneau's 1992-93 season is not on the list. He had 102 Pts as a rookie. I know he played 15 games the previous season but he was still considered a rookie in 1992-93.

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09-10-2011, 02:35 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I did a quite look at some of the top guys adjusted, but not the WHA, or early NHL guys, and here is how they stacked up adjusted

Selanne 84-62-45-107
AO 81-52-52-104
Sid 81-39-60-99
Malkin 78-35-52-87
Peter Stastny 77-30-54-84
Trottier 80-27-55-82
Bossy 73-47-34-81
Mario 73-34-45-77
Hawerchuck 80-33-42-75
Forsberg broke into the NHL in 1994-95 during the lockout shortened season and was above PPG and won the Calder. What would his adjusted numbers be if they were adjusted to 82 games?

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09-10-2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I did a quite look at some of the top guys adjusted, but not the WHA, or early NHL guys, and here is how they stacked up adjusted

Selanne 84-62-45-107
AO 81-52-52-104
Sid 81-39-60-99
Malkin 78-35-52-87
Peter Stastny 77-30-54-84
Trottier 80-27-55-82
Bossy 73-47-34-81
Mario 73-34-45-77
Hawerchuck 80-33-42-75
I understand the concept of adjusted stats, I don't agree that they represent anything more than "interesting" in terms of real comparison or evaluation - with that said, I don't disagree with the list in terms of the relative statistical impact of each player in the associated season, relative to the league.

This is a good example of where adjusted stats miss an important piece though.

Hawerchuk, Mario, Bossy were right out of junior.

Selanne had played 3-4 years (at least) of elite level hockey in Finland. Ovechkin and Malkin in Russia.

Eric Lindros had 75 pts in his first NHL season, in just 61 games (not on this list but probably should be)

If the objective is to determine who had the best STATISTICAL rookie season (whether it's adjusted to their peers, in their era or not) is one way to look at this.

Which rookie had the largest impact on the league or his team, that might be a different list.

The best rookie season is probably a combination of the two.

Frankly, I couldn't rank the best rookie season. Too tough to determine. I'd probably go with Kenny Morrow, quietly winning Olympic Gold and then a Stanley Cup, followed by 3 more. Nice.

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Old
09-10-2011, 02:55 PM
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinHockey View Post
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Thanks, everyone. def what I was looking for. It is "to 2010-2011", which means it doesn't include Grabner at #2 on the rookie-shorty list. It was my interest in Grabs pursuit of the rookie-shorty record that prompted my interest in seeing this kind of list in the 1st place.

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09-10-2011, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive45 View Post
Thanks, everyone. def what I was looking for. It is "to 2010-2011", which means it doesn't include Grabner at #2 on the rookie-shorty list. It was my interest in Grabs pursuit of the rookie-shorty record that prompted my interest in seeing this kind of list in the 1st place.
seems like hockey-reference doesn't classify Grabner as a rookie last year, because he's omitted from the query. The 20GP with VAN maybe disqualifies him as a "first year" player in the eyes of hockey-reference.

Because he should be on the list with 6 SH as a rookie, behind Jordan Staal's 7.

No?

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09-11-2011, 12:26 AM
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drive45
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update?

yes, I just thought that it had not been updated yet, as it says 'to' 2010-2011.

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09-11-2011, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
If we are ranking and not using raw stats. Nels Stewart has to be 1 or 2. He lead the league in goals and points.
Yeah. "Old Poison" won the Hart trophy as a rookie in 1926.


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09-12-2011, 02:06 AM
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Pretty stunning that Lemieux had 100 pts and was a -35.

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09-12-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I did a quite look at some of the top guys adjusted, but not the WHA, or early NHL guys, and here is how they stacked up adjusted

Selanne 84-62-45-107
AO 81-52-52-104
Sid 81-39-60-99
Malkin 78-35-52-87
Peter Stastny 77-30-54-84
Trottier 80-27-55-82
Bossy 73-47-34-81
Mario 73-34-45-77
Hawerchuck 80-33-42-75
Any list that doesn't have Gretzky in the top 9 is null and void.

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09-12-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Any list that doesn't have Gretzky in the top 9 is null and void.
Officially, the NHL considers Gretzky's rookie year to be his 109pt WHA season, not his 137pt 1979-80 season. Sure it's probably the best season ever put up by a teenager, but he was not considered a rookie.

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09-12-2011, 08:03 AM
  #22
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Top 20 Rookie Seasons I witnessed:

Temmu Selanne
Ovechkin
Crosby
Mike Bossy
Stastny
Ray Bourque
Mario Lemieux
Chris Chelios
Brian Leetch
Ed Belfour
Dale Hawerchuk
Bryan Trottier
Peter Forsberg
Ron Hextall
Malkin
Steve Yzerman
Gary Suter
Joe Nieuwendyk
Neal Broten
Tom Barrasso

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09-12-2011, 08:24 AM
  #23
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Dino Ciccarelli scored 55 goals and 106 points in his first full NHL season (the 81-82 season) after scoring an impressive 14 goals, 21 points in 19 playoff games in the North Stars 1981 Stanley Cup Finals run. The only way he could be overlooked for any top-10 rookie list is if one discounts him for the fact that he scored 30 points in 32 games the season before his full first season. Instead of thinking of September through April, if one thinks in terms of calendar year, his 1981 saw him stick with the NHL club at a point per game in the regular season and playoffs.


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09-12-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Top 20 Rookie Seasons I witnessed:

Temmu Selanne
Ovechkin
Crosby
Mike Bossy
Stastny
Ray Bourque
Mario Lemieux
Chris Chelios
Brian Leetch
Ed Belfour
Dale Hawerchuk
Bryan Trottier
Peter Forsberg
Ron Hextall
Malkin
Steve Yzerman
Gary Suter
Joe Nieuwendyk
Neal Broten
Tom Barrasso

If playoffs are included would Roy crack this list? Conn Smythe is pretty impressive.

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09-12-2011, 09:09 AM
  #25
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If playoffs are included would Roy crack this list? Conn Smythe is pretty impressive.
Dryden could be there as well, he won the Conn Smythe before he won Calder.

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