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Most "lucky" NHL Player compared to his talent

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Old
09-10-2011, 10:05 PM
  #51
Flanagan
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Bernie Nicholls:



Playing with Gretzky and Lucky Luc can give a player amazing stats, see Nicholls' 70 goal - 150 point season.

Only Gretzky, Lemiuex, Yzerman, and Esposito have ever had a more productive season. Think about that.

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Old
09-10-2011, 10:09 PM
  #52
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I love when people bait canucks fans, because they fall for it soooooooo hard.

E.g. That Carolina-Vancouver trade rumour thread a while back.

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Old
09-10-2011, 10:14 PM
  #53
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Gotta be Lucky Luc Robatille.

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09-10-2011, 10:20 PM
  #54
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I would include Burrows but not for the reasons in the OP.

He's lucky AV got hired and has so much faith in hard working two-way players. Marc Crawford wouldn't have given him the same opportunities.

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09-10-2011, 10:23 PM
  #55
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Raflaski was a great d-man, but it was his luck that made him an amazing d-man. Having Niedermayer on your side, then having Lidstrom must be nice.

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Old
09-10-2011, 10:28 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanagan View Post
Bernie Nicholls:



Playing with Gretzky and Lucky Luc can give a player amazing stats, see Nicholls' 70 goal - 150 point season.

Only Gretzky, Lemiuex, Yzerman, and Esposito have ever had a more productive season. Think about that.
Playing with Gretzky certainly helped, but in the 5 years prior to Gretkzy joining the Kings (and his 70 goal, 150pt season) Nicholls was 12th in points in the NHL which put him in the area of other such "lucky" players as Marcel Dionne, Mark Messier, Bryan Trottier and Mike Bossy.



As an aside, during that same stretch, Gretzky had the most goals in the league and also had more assists than anyone else had points (646 compared to Kurri at 583 or Hawerchuk at 558)

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Old
09-10-2011, 10:32 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
Vancouver is one of the most watched teams in the league. People have a decent basis on Burrows. I don't think he has the skills to be a 30 goal guy in a less supported situation.
What???

Any source to support this?

With most of their games starting at 10-10:30PM Eastern Time, I would be surprised if that was true.

Your reputation is going downhill fast.

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Old
09-10-2011, 10:39 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Playing with Gretzky certainly helped, but in the 5 years prior to Gretkzy joining the Kings (and his 70 goal, 150pt season) Nicholls was 12th in points in the NHL which put him in the area of other such "lucky" players as Marcel Dionne, Mark Messier, Bryan Trottier and Mike Bossy.



As an aside, during that same stretch, Gretzky had the most goals in the league and also had more assists than anyone else had points (646 compared to Kurri at 583 or Hawerchuk at 558)
Well obviously you need to be a talented player to score 70-80-150 no matter who you play with, but Bernie was pretty lucky to have those kind of linemates and there is no way he would have scored that much without them.

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Old
09-10-2011, 10:48 PM
  #59
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Knuble IMO. First plays with Thornton...then Forsberg...now Backstrom? Ridiculous.

I'd put Holmstrom in the category as well I suppose. He definitely works hard and takes his lumps, but other than standing in front of the net he doesn't do much...Franzen's an example of a guy who can play an identical role AND do a million other things on the ice.

I'd definitely say Burrows first act with the Sedins was luck...but his ability to repeat it AND play without them squashes that myth IMO.

Jonas Hoglund is a great example from days gone by...

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:22 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Ouellet View Post
And Mike Knuble I guess.
ah......no.

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:26 PM
  #61
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chris clark and zubrus should thank ovechkin

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:26 PM
  #62
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Old
09-10-2011, 11:31 PM
  #63
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Has anybody mentioned Ryan Smyth?

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:32 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DowJones View Post
I was thinking of some players that just happened to come to the right team at the right time.

Im not talking about the AHL level Scrubs who happened to win a cup at a minimum salary and a 3 minutes TOI. Im talking about guys that actually benefited strongly from their surroundings. Guys that might have failed if they were put on another team.

Also, Im not talking about great players that benefited from other great playrs like Jari Kurri for example.

Some guys:

Holmstrom - Standing infront of the net with help from Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom doesnt sound like the hardest job in the world.

Rafalski - Great offence but "not so great" defence from this guy. Playing with Lidstrom and Neidermeyer must be a really tough assignment ...

Burrows - Basicly a plug that happened to find chemistry with he Sedins.
You forgot the part where Rafalski turned Ericsson into a 3mil+ player by just playing with him.

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:37 PM
  #65
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Knuble plays with great players because he's an ideal complementary player. If I had two star players holding a line together, I would strongly consider rounding out the line with a guy like Knuble rather than a 3rd star player.

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:38 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
ah......no.
Ah, yes. Knuble has found himself with incredibly talented line mates to work with for most of his career.

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:46 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Glen Murray
Mike Knuble
ah....no.

While Murray was deadly but limited in his scope and range, Mike Knuble was a prolific scorer in both high school (2 yrs - 115 goals) and college (101 goals in his last 3 yrs at Michigan).

After being drafted he was used mainly on 3rd and 4th lines, (where he was quite effective) until at the age of 30 yrs old the Bruins bumped him up to the 2nd line and 2nd power play unit, thusly increasing his minutes and giving him a chance to actually play with quality players....and he responded.

The Flyers took it a step further and put him on the first powerplay unit....and he responded.

He's scored 218 goals in these last eight years for 3 different teams, (27+ goals per season avg), shooting percentage average in the mid teens, is a +99 and plays a solid 2 way game without taking stupid penalties.

He's also played on 4 world cup teams and an olympic team

How exactly does that make him "lucky"?

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:49 PM
  #68
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Knuble is a good player. He's unmoveable in the slot and he's got an accurate shot in tight. That said he probably has done the most with the least of most guys in the league.

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Old
09-10-2011, 11:59 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTFN View Post
Ah, yes. Knuble has found himself with incredibly talented line mates to work with for most of his career.
His first 6 years he was a 3rd and 4th liner.

Hell, just about anyone will respond if given more talented line mates.....that's not an earthy shattering observation.

In Boston he had Rolston as his 2nd line center and PJ Axelsson as his LWer, until he got bumped up after Samsonov got hurt. He then had Ivan Huml and Rob Zamuner as his LWer...and still managed to score 30 goals in his breakout year.

Those are NOT incredibly talented linemates.

After that he was pretty much on Philly's #1 line and averaged 31 goals over the next 4 years.....former Boston teammate Sergei Samsonov skated on the #1 line in Boston his entire tenure and has yet to hit the 30 goal barrier.....that was with Joe Thornton as his center.....and Samsonov was never the defensive player that Knuble was either.

Folks are seriously underrating Knuble around here.

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Old
09-11-2011, 12:01 AM
  #70
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Old
09-11-2011, 12:05 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
Vancouver is one of the most watched teams in the league. People have a decent basis on Burrows. I don't think he has the skills to be a 30 goal guy in a less supported situation.
Vancouver is not one of the most watched teams in the NHL. This became pretty clear when even the hockey writers who were asked to vote for the Hart admitted they didn't watched the Canucks as much because of the time difference.

But this still has nothing to do with calling him a plug. There's no doubt that Burrows has been able to put up better production because he's with the Sedins. The same is true for any player playing next to star talent. But even if he's "just" a 20 goal scorer, does that make him a plug? Keep in mind *everything* else he brings to the table, being in the top-20 of Selke voting for years now (well before he got on a line with the Sedins)?

There aren't many players that can play just as effectively on either wing, can find chemistry with any line they're put on, can play either wing on any of the 4 lines and do whatever the coach requires from that spot, and still produce at a decent clip regardless of who he's with.

All those things make Burrows much more than just a plug. Fantastic 2-way players who do so much for the team, that any offense they provide is a bonus, aren't plugs... they're heart and soul players for their team. And a reason why Burrows has won the "unsung hero" award for the Canucks before he even got into the top-6.

Maybe some people don't understand the value of defensive impact for the team? Maybe a guy like Malhotra is considered a plug to some people here because he doesn't put up any offense, and the things he does bring casual fans can't appreciate?

Like I said, if that's your definition of a "plug" or if you don't know that that's the type of game Burrows brings to the team, you need to watch more hockey.

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Old
09-11-2011, 12:06 AM
  #72
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He plays for my favorite team, and I have a ton of appreciation for his talent, but the guy has also, since those Boston days, been graced with some of the most talented players in the NHL on his line. Not even saying he's not talented, simply that, as luck would have it, he's been surrounded by star power no matter where he goes, and that's exactly that: lucky.

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Old
09-11-2011, 12:12 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
His first 6 years he was a 3rd and 4th liner.

Hell, just about anyone will respond if given more talented line mates.....that's not an earthy shattering observation.

In Boston he had Rolston as his 2nd line center and PJ Axelsson as his LWer, until he got bumped up after Samsonov got hurt. He then had Ivan Huml and Rob Zamuner as his LWer...and still managed to score 30 goals in his breakout year.

Those are NOT incredibly talented linemates.

After that he was pretty much on Philly's #1 line and averaged 31 goals over the next 4 years.....former Boston teammate Sergei Samsonov skated on the #1 line in Boston his entire tenure and has yet to hit the 30 goal barrier.....that was with Joe Thornton as his center.....and Samsonov was never the defensive player that Knuble was either.

Folks are seriously underrating Knuble around here.
Not saying he sucks. Just saying most of his goals are dirty ''luckier'' ones.

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Old
09-11-2011, 12:17 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Ouellet View Post
Not saying he sucks. Just saying most of his goals are dirty ''luckier'' ones.
Some would say they were from hard work and excellent finish.....a matter of perspective I suppose.

Also, the idea that ANYONE who plays in the best hockey league on the planet, is considered lucky, is a bit of an oxymoron, eh?

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Old
09-11-2011, 12:20 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Some would say they were from hard work and excellent finish.....a matter of perspective I suppose.

Also, the idea that ANYONE who plays in the best hockey league on the planet, is considered lucky, is a bit of an oxymoron, eh?
No........no.....noooooooooo....what?

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