I'd like to see Despres become one of the best defensemen in the AHL before we consider moving him up. No reason to not allow him to develop at a slow pace. He'll be a better hockey player for it. If he comes in this season and cements himself as an elite AHL player...yeah, then you start talking about making room for him, but not until then.
I'd like to see Despres become one of the best defensemen in the AHL before we consider moving him up. No reason to not allow him to develop at a slow pace. He'll be a better hockey player for it. If he comes in this season and cements himself as an elite AHL player...yeah, then you start talking about making room for him, but not until then.
That's never a guarantee. Some guys develop quickly. Some guys develop slowly. As a GENERAL rule, teams move slower with defensemen. However, if we take a good look around the NHL these days, several defensemen are making rapid progress in their development.
Once again, IF Despres beats out the other five candidates (Lovejoy, Niskanen, Engelland, Bortuzzo and Strait) in training camp, he should be on the team. Nobody should be in the AHL if they've earned the right to play in the NHL. That's always been my philosophy. NOW, if Despres struggles in October, or even the first week, you can send him back down. But if he's outplayed the others, he deserves the right to start the season in Pittsburgh.
I'd like to see Despres become one of the best defensemen in the AHL before we consider moving him up. No reason to not allow him to develop at a slow pace. He'll be a better hockey player for it. If he comes in this season and cements himself as an elite AHL player...yeah, then you start talking about making room for him, but not until then.
That's what most of us want, if not all of us. But you know that the moment he goes a point per game in the first 10-15 games, he's getting called up and likely staying up.
I felt the exact same way about Kris Letang, then he starts putting up points and I'm like "dude, stop, suck for a little while...learn something..." and bam, he's on the roster for the rest of the season, lol. Of course, I think Despres lasts more than 10 games in the AHL before's in the NHL. I am hoping he's at least there for a full season with maybe a few call-ups if it's earned, but if he starts to do what Letang did (which isn't impossible) in the first 10-15 games...I'd be worried about my job if I were Lovejoy, Engelland and Niskanen.
That's what most of us want, if not all of us. But you know that the moment he goes a point per game in the first 10-15 games, he's getting called up and likely staying up.
I felt the exact same way about Kris Letang, then he starts putting up points and I'm like "dude, stop, suck for a little while...learn something..." and bam, he's on the roster for the rest of the season, lol. Of course, I think Despres lasts more than 10 games in the AHL before's in the NHL. I am hoping he's at least there for a full season with maybe a few call-ups if it's earned, but if he starts to do what Letang did (which isn't impossible) in the first 10-15 games...I'd be worried about my job if I were Lovejoy, Engelland and Niskanen.
I understand what you're saying, but defensemen don't always have to show points on the board to prove they're absolutely ready for the next level.
I view Despres as another Jonathan Ericsson/Marc Staal type. Both are considered 'overrated' by those that only look for stats. I appreciate both players after watching them play closely. Ericsson still isn't on Staal's level (I thought Staal could have had Norris votes last season, he was that good as a shutdown D man), but he's getting there.
Maybe Simon Despres tomorrow is a lot better than that. But there's a misconception that if you bring Despres up now he'll never become the all-around stud many envision. That's never an absolute statement.
The way I see it, he can help this team right now, because if we're weak in one area right now it's left-side defense.
That's what most of us want, if not all of us. But you know that the moment he goes a point per game in the first 10-15 games, he's getting called up and likely staying up.
I felt the exact same way about Kris Letang, then he starts putting up points and I'm like "dude, stop, suck for a little while...learn something..." and bam, he's on the roster for the rest of the season, lol. Of course, I think Despres lasts more than 10 games in the AHL before's in the NHL. I am hoping he's at least there for a full season with maybe a few call-ups if it's earned, but if he starts to do what Letang did (which isn't impossible) in the first 10-15 games...I'd be worried about my job if I were Lovejoy, Engelland and Niskanen.
I love Desprès, but no way he dominates offensively like Letang did. Never forget that the year before suiting up for the Baby Pens, Kris was producing at a 2PPG pace in the Q playoffs. Desprès never even came close to those numbers. Desprès is more polished defensively than Letang was at the same age though, so he might have less to learn at the AHL level and might not be there for long; that I can agree with. However, I wouldn't expect an offensive outburst from Desprès in the AHL, that's not his style of play, Letang is MUCH MUCH more dynamic. Desprès is a bigger Paul Martin, Letang is a right-handed poor man's Scott Niedermayer. Both are good skaters and don't shy from physical play, but that's about it. There are two very different players that might end up being our first pairing in a not so distant future.
Desprès - Letang
Orpik - Michalek
Martin - whoever
Well...compare him to Letang for readiness at that same stage of their careers. I don't remember Letang being as solid defensively as Despres, offensively, Letang was there, showed a lot of flashes of being a pmd that could run the point some day but his defense needed work, a lot of work but he also showed a lot of promise there as well.
We'll have to wait and see I guess. I really don't want Bortuzzo or Despres to be rushed but the Pens staff knows better than we do.
I love Desprès, but no way he dominates offensively like Letang did. Never forget that the year before suiting up for the Baby Pens, Kris was producing at a 2PPG pace in the Q playoffs. Desprès never even came close to those numbers. Desprès is more polished defensively than Letang was at the same age though, so he might have less to learn at the AHL level and might not be there for long; that I can agree with. However, I wouldn't expect an offensive outburst from Desprès in the AHL, that's not his style of play, Letang is MUCH MUCH more dynamic. Desprès is a bigger Paul Martin, Letang is a right-handed poor man's Scott Niedermayer. Both are good skaters and don't shy from physical play, but that's about it. There are two very different players that might end up being our first pairing in a not so distant future.
Desprès - Letang
Orpik - Michalek
Martin - whoever
Well...compare him to Letang for readiness at that same stage of their careers. I don't remember Letang being as solid defensively as Despres, offensively, Letang was there, showed a lot of flashes of being a pmd that could run the point some day but his defense needed work, a lot of work but he also showed a lot of promise there as well.
We'll have to wait and see I guess. I really don't want Bortuzzo or Despres to be rushed but the Pens staff knows better than we do.
Desprès might be at the same stage of development Letang was, but I don't think we can compare those two players. They are so different that it is a little far-fetched to compare their development curves.
I love Desprès, but no way he dominates offensively like Letang did. Never forget that the year before suiting up for the Baby Pens, Kris was producing at a 2PPG pace in the Q playoffs. Desprès never even came close to those numbers. Desprès is more polished defensively than Letang was at the same age though, so he might have less to learn at the AHL level and might not be there for long; that I can agree with. However, I wouldn't expect an offensive outburst from Desprès in the AHL, that's not his style of play, Letang is MUCH MUCH more dynamic. Desprès is a bigger Paul Martin, Letang is a right-handed poor man's Scott Niedermayer. Both are good skaters and don't shy from physical play, but that's about it. There are two very different players that might end up being our first pairing in a not so distant future.
Desprès - Letang
Orpik - Michalek
Martin - whoever
That would be a SICK SICK SICK defense.
I kind of like keeping it Orpik - Letang and Martin - Michalek. Having Despres on that 3rd pairing just makes things even stronger, depending on who his partner ends up being.
Unless Despres and Letang make a better duo, I wouldn't want to tinker with Orpik and Letang. I think we all saw how much of an influence Orpik has on Letang when Orpik was out for a while and Letang looked lost at times.
Pens site has injury udates. Says Bortuzzo is in rehab mode. Rehabing what?
Whatever lower-body injury he had. I can't imagine he'll be out -too- long, but it's a bummer he'll miss the start of the season. I was looking for him to make some serious noise this camp.
I understand what you're saying, but defensemen don't always have to show points on the board to prove they're absolutely ready for the next level.
I view Despres as another Jonathan Ericsson/Marc Staal type. Both are considered 'overrated' by those that only look for stats. I appreciate both players after watching them play closely. Ericsson still isn't on Staal's level (I thought Staal could have had Norris votes last season, he was that good as a shutdown D man), but he's getting there.
Maybe Simon Despres tomorrow is a lot better than that. But there's a misconception that if you bring Despres up now he'll never become the all-around stud many envision. That's never an absolute statement.
The way I see it, he can help this team right now, because if we're weak in one area right now it's left-side defense.
I pretty much agree with everything you are saying but the question I have is do you keep him in NHL as a 5-6 or let him be 1-4 in WBS. I really believe he will have to make it a no brainer (play over even what you say or make Niskanen, Lovejoy and/or Engelland expendable) for DB to keep him or he will spend first part of season in AHL.
If Goligoski was moved in the off season, then Despres would have likely gotten that 9 game thing on the 3rd pairing. The hold up last year, as I interpreted it was that the minutes they wanted to give Despres were the minutes Goligoski was going to get so it was better to cut him and send him to the Q instead of keeping him as the 7th guy and wasting his time when he should be playing top 4 in the Q.
This year, that's not a problem, if Despres impresses in camp, I have no idea what the team will do given what almost happened last year with Simon.
I understand what you're saying, but defensemen don't always have to show points on the board to prove they're absolutely ready for the next level.
I view Despres as another Jonathan Ericsson/Marc Staal type. Both are considered 'overrated' by those that only look for stats. I appreciate both players after watching them play closely. Ericsson still isn't on Staal's level (I thought Staal could have had Norris votes last season, he was that good as a shutdown D man), but he's getting there.
Maybe Simon Despres tomorrow is a lot better than that. But there's a misconception that if you bring Despres up now he'll never become the all-around stud many envision. That's never an absolute statement.
The way I see it, he can help this team right now, because if we're weak in one area right now it's left-side defense.
If Goligoski was moved in the off season, then Despres would have likely gotten that 9 game thing on the 3rd pairing. The hold up last year, as I interpreted it was that the minutes they wanted to give Despres were the minutes Goligoski was going to get so it was better to cut him and send him to the Q instead of keeping him as the 7th guy and wasting his time when he should be playing top 4 in the Q.
This year, that's not a problem, if Despres impresses in camp, I have no idea what the team will do given what almost happened last year with Simon.
I honestly don't think that Despres was as close as everbody speculates to making the team last year. I think they had every intention of sending him back all along. It was just better for his development to keep him up as long as possible rather than send him back to Juniors right away. Any of the defensive prospects would really have to be head and shoulders above any of the D-men on one ways to make the team out of camp. Besides, Despres needs to play a lot of minutes at the pro level and that's not going to happen with the big club.
1) Despres is not making the team this year, nor will he spend 10-15 games in the AHL and prove he's too good not to be moved up. Personally, I don't think he'll take the 2 or 3+ years some players need in the AHL (i.e. Strait, Bortuzzo, Scuderi), and I think he'll be largely ready after one season in WBS. But WBS is where he will be this year.
2) Despres is never going to be a PPG Dman, in any league he plays in. He's physically ready to play, but he just needs to get a bit more polished in his own zone, and get used to the speed of the pro game. He is nowhere near the type of prospect Kris Letang was at the same age, nor does he have Letang's upside.
3) When talking about our weakness on the left-side, I don't actually see that. Strait is pretty much NHL ready, and will be ready to make the jump if a duo of Niskanen/Lovejoy/Engelland can't get it done.
4) I was expecting Bortuzzo to start the year in WBS, even if he showed he's ready, just because of our depth on right-D. If his injury keeps him out for any amount of time, this just re-inforces this possiblity. But I think all future "envisioned" D pairings need to include Bortuzzo in the mix. I think he will be a full-time regular no later than the beginning of the 2012 season.
5) Lovejoy will be a regular on our roster this year, but I also expect he will be traded after the season as Bortuzzo will push him. I like Lovejoy quite a lot, but I think his trade value is not up to par with his potential. So I say let him play this years and "ripen" as a solid player, and then we should have a significant asset in Lovejoy on the trade market (i.e. he could garner a 2nd round pick in the draft or a comparable forward prospect).
6) Morrow ain't making this team before Despres or Bortuzzo. Because of his birth-date, he will be eligable to play in the AHL next season. I think he spends 2 years there before he makes the jump. By that point, Despres may be ready to push Martin for the top-4 (allowing us to trade Martin if we need to for cap reasons and/or getting a top-line winger), and Morrow can slide up to Despres' spot on the 3rd pair with Bortuzzo.
I could see Despres getting the 9 game tryout this year. Engelland, Niskanen and Lovejoy are #s 5-7, and none of them are so good that the staff can't justify reducing their minutes.
I could see Despres getting the 9 game tryout this year. Engelland, Niskanen and Lovejoy are #s 5-7, and none of them are so good that the staff can't justify reducing their minutes.
The 9 game benchmark only applies to prospects who are sent back to juniors. If a player is sent back to juniors with less than ten professional games played, his contract will roll back one year. That's why that benchmark makes sense as a decision point. Despres is going to be playing professional hockey no matter what, so his year is going to count no matter how many NHL games he plays in.
