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Are the Devils in bankruptcy trouble? UPD: Chambers to pay $25m to exit?
Even funnier are rangers fans who come out and laugh at Devils fans who don't like the post. That is some pretty good insight.
The issue with all of this is why would someone come in and just pay millions of dollars? They would probably have to buy Chamber's ownership.
Good thing the word around the devils forums' grapevine is that the payment was already due and there is little fuss to come from it afterwards. Just speculation, but isn't that all this is?
i'm sure whoever is lending VBK the money will either be collecting interest or some equity in the team.
Either the NYPost has been accurate all along and whatever humongous problems there was have begun to be solved or the NYPost was completely off-base from the get go and there were no humongous problems that needed to be solved.
Quote:
The financially troubled Devils have been advanced money by the N.H.L., Commissioner Gary Bettman said Saturday in Ottawa at a news conference after the league’s board of governors meeting.
Sure sounds like the Post made it up to me.
And the Post's stories were way before this announcement so it sounds to me as if the Post was right on. But you believe what you want. Time will tell what happens to the franchise. But what can't be debated is that as long as the devils play in Jersey they will never be out of the Broadway shadow. They will never have enough fans to be a rock solid franchise.
But what can't be debated is that as long as the devils play in Jersey they will never be out of the Broadway shadow. They will never have enough fans to be a rock solid franchise.
And actually that is something that is perfectly debatable.
No, the Devils, barring some Act of God, will never outdraw nor outsell the Rangers. That's common sense. But the next few years to a decade will truly determine how much of a fanbase the Devils actually have.
The Devils moved to NJ in 1982. Which means that our earliest fans will be reaching, or have started, child bearing, money making, family raising age in the next few years. If you were a fan of hockey in 1981 in NJ, you were either a Rangers, Isles or Flyers fan. The Devils have been tasked with creating fans from scratch since then, as converts tend to be the outlier rather than the standard. So the people first exposed to hockey by the Devils, these fans who weren't a fan of any of the other three, are starting to procreate and settle. Sports loyalties get passed on by generation; I have many a hockey fan friend in New Jersey who are Rangers/Flyers fans by blood for that very reason.
Another thing to keep an eye on is that, with the Nets moving, the Devils are the sole major sports franchise bearing the name New Jersey in the state. Sure, the Jets, Giants, and Red Bulls play there, but they are all "New York" teams. Could that have a positive effect on the Devils popularity?
And actually that is something that is perfectly debatable.
No, the Devils, barring some Act of God, will never outdraw nor outsell the Rangers. That's common sense. But the next few years to a decade will truly determine how much of a fanbase the Devils actually have.
The Devils moved to NJ in 1982. Which means that our earliest fans will be reaching, or have started, child bearing, money making, family raising age in the next few years. If you were a fan of hockey in 1981 in NJ, you were either a Rangers, Isles or Flyers fan. The Devils have been tasked with creating fans from scratch since then, as converts tend to be the outlier rather than the standard. So the people first exposed to hockey by the Devils, these fans who weren't a fan of any of the other three, are starting to procreate and settle. Sports loyalties get passed on by generation; I have many a hockey fan friend in New Jersey who are Rangers/Flyers fans by blood for that very reason.
Another thing to keep an eye on is that, with the Nets moving, the Devils are the sole major sports franchise bearing the name New Jersey in the state. Sure, the Jets, Giants, and Red Bulls play there, but they are all "New York" teams. Could that have a positive effect on the Devils popularity?
It'll be interesting to watch.
I also point out that the Rangers win in 1994 gave them a lot of fans.. You had one team (the Devils) that had never really been good and was rumored to be moving to Nashville soon, and you had another team that just won a Cup and was looking as solid as ever.. Nowadays though, no one from NJ is deciding to be a Rangers fan
People don't believe it when I tell them that the core of the Devils fan base is still a few years away from being old enough to buy tickets and attend on their own.. I was lucky and got my season tickets at age 19 about 3 years ago, but that was because I made it a priority to save up and buy season tickets
You look at our attendance during the college winter break when kids were home, we sold out 6 of 7.. The fan base is young, you can believe it or not but that's the truth.. Plus, the marketing and sales teams had been crap since the 80's, but they got some new staff in there who have been doing a killer job
This team will be at 90% or better attendance in 5 years.. We're at 86% now and haven't even hit March, which is consistently the Devils best month ticket selling-wise.. We play the Rangers, Islanders, Flyers, and Pens as well as other big draw teams like the Blackhawks and Leafs.. We will sellout more than half of these games and be up there for the rest
Plus, the Devils are doing it while maintaining higher ticket prices.. Sure, Tampa Bay has 96% attendance, but you can't run a successful operation on $8 season tickets.. And people paying that little will not be happy with increases even if their current price is insanely low.. It's not just about how many people you get in the building
definitely agree with the last 2 devils fans here. i personally know a lot of devils fans that are my age (22) who are getting to the point where theyll be able to afford ticket plans instead of going to the odd game here and there. in 5-10 years the devils will be more than fine when it comes to ticket sales
And the Post's stories were way before this announcement so it sounds to me as if the Post was right on. But you believe what you want. Time will tell what happens to the franchise. But what can't be debated is that as long as the devils play in Jersey they will never be out of the Broadway shadow. They will never have enough fans to be a rock solid franchise.
All you do is say negative stuff about the Devils. I get it. You're a Rangers fan and you hate us. But really coming in and saying the utter nonsense you do isn't really necessary.
The Devils have been a rock solid franchise for some time. Their financial troubles come from being unable to pay off a debt. It's not like they're not profitable. They're just not making money fast enough to pay off the arena debt.
the bane of a team expanding in an established market. im sure the team will only grow and grow
Flyers came in the league in 1967. Take a look at their fan base since 1973. No cups since 1975. What is your point? It is all about winning, Since 1967 the Flyers may have the best winning % in the regular of any organization or close to it. I just do not understand why the devils always seem to have issues even when they have won mutiple cups. Why is that? Poor stadium location?
And the Post's stories were way before this announcement so it sounds to me as if the Post was right on. But you believe what you want. Time will tell what happens to the franchise. But what can't be debated is that as long as the devils play in Jersey they will never be out of the Broadway shadow. They will never have enough fans to be a rock solid franchise.
Umm, I wasn't referring to that part of the story but you can continue to act like you're the only one who knows whats going on. I mean seriously, do you really need the Devils to be in bankruptcy to validate your choice of being a Ranger fan or something? I don't see why you're so invested in this.
The NHL forwarded the Devils their league earnings because as I've said before, Chambers is not willing to put money into the franchise while he's trying to get out. Its a very different situation than the absolute bankruptcy the Post is trying to pitch.
Post also claimed the Devils had an internal cap that would preclude them from adding any salary. Except they already made two trades this season that added NHL salary and now, last night, added nearly $4 million in salary. Something doesn't add up. If we're starving for money, I'm pretty sure we keep Veilleuix and Palmieri down in the AHL where their two way contract keeps them making pennies compared to what Zidlicky is making.
You can continue to believe whatever makes you feel better though
Flyers came in the league in 1967. Take a look at their fan base since 1973. No cups since 1975. What is your point? It is all about winning, Since 1967 the Flyers may have the best winning % in the regular of any organization or close to it. I just do not understand why the devils always seem to have issues even when they have won mutiple cups. Why is that? Poor stadium location?
I think there's a pretty big difference between adding a team in a city with a population of 1.5 million and adding a team in New Jersey with no big 'center' city that automatically lends itself to create fans.
Its a very different situation anyways. You didn't have people in Philadelphia who were fans of the Rangers or anything, so putting a team there automatically got the allegiances of the entire city. Put a team in NJ (who already is heavily invested in NY sport markets) and you don't just get those allegiances. Many people in north NJ were already Ranger or Islander fans. Many people in south NJ were already Flyers fans. Devils just got the leftovers so it will be a generation or two (i.e. my generation of fans now entering their early and mid 20s) before the real effects (success or failure) will be seen.
I'm still in school but you can sure as hell bet i'll be buying season tickets as soon as I can afford to (assuming I'll be working in the area as I plan). Hell, since I started driving I've probably been to 15-20 games a year compared to the odd game or two before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441
definitely agree with the last 2 devils fans here. i personally know a lot of devils fans that are my age (22) who are getting to the point where theyll be able to afford ticket plans instead of going to the odd game here and there. in 5-10 years the devils will be more than fine when it comes to ticket sales
Its only a natural phenomenon though. You have several of the 'original' Devils fan generation who are only now seeing their kids hit their mid twenties. If you picked up the franchise in its early years while you were lets say 30. You're now in your upper 40s/lower 50s with a generation below you. We're still really on that original generation unlike Flyers fans who are a generation or two ahead or Rangers fans who are exponentially ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin226
I also point out that the Rangers win in 1994 gave them a lot of fans.. You had one team (the Devils) that had never really been good and was rumored to be moving to Nashville soon, and you had another team that just won a Cup and was looking as solid as ever.. Nowadays though, no one from NJ is deciding to be a Rangers fan
People don't believe it when I tell them that the core of the Devils fan base is still a few years away from being old enough to buy tickets and attend on their own.. I was lucky and got my season tickets at age 19 about 3 years ago, but that was because I made it a priority to save up and buy season tickets
You look at our attendance during the college winter break when kids were home, we sold out 6 of 7.. The fan base is young, you can believe it or not but that's the truth.. Plus, the marketing and sales teams had been crap since the 80's, but they got some new staff in there who have been doing a killer job
This team will be at 90% or better attendance in 5 years.. We're at 86% now and haven't even hit March, which is consistently the Devils best month ticket selling-wise.. We play the Rangers, Islanders, Flyers, and Pens as well as other big draw teams like the Blackhawks and Leafs.. We will sellout more than half of these games and be up there for the rest
Plus, the Devils are doing it while maintaining higher ticket prices.. Sure, Tampa Bay has 96% attendance, but you can't run a successful operation on $8 season tickets.. And people paying that little will not be happy with increases even if their current price is insanely low.. It's not just about how many people you get in the building
College nights during breaks are such a great atmosphere. Hell, I caught a game in MSG towards the tail end of the break and there were so many young Devils fans, was a lot of fun. Prudential should be a great atmosphere these next couple of years as the younger crowd starts making more money and coming to more games. Not to mention that many of us are just turning 21 and can now legally (key word haha) buy alcohol at the Rock..
I think there's a pretty big difference between adding a team in a city with a population of 1.5 million and adding a team in New Jersey with no big 'center' city that automatically lends itself to create fans.
Its a very different situation anyways. You didn't have people in Philadelphia who were fans of the Rangers or anything, so putting a team there automatically got the allegiances of the entire city. Put a team in NJ (who already is heavily invested in NY sport markets) and you don't just get those allegiances. Many people in north NJ were already Ranger or Islander fans. Many people in south NJ were already Flyers fans. Devils just got the leftovers so it will be a generation or two (i.e. my generation of fans now entering their early and mid 20s) before the real effects (success or failure) will be seen.
I'm still in school but you can sure as hell bet i'll be buying season tickets as soon as I can afford to (assuming I'll be working in the area as I plan). Hell, since I started driving I've probably been to 15-20 games a year compared to the odd game or two before.
Its only a natural phenomenon though. You have several of the 'original' Devils fan generation who are only now seeing their kids hit their mid twenties. If you picked up the franchise in its early years while you were lets say 30. You're now in your upper 40s/lower 50s with a generation below you. We're still really on that original generation unlike Flyers fans who are a generation or two ahead or Rangers fans who are exponentially ahead.
College nights during breaks are such a great atmosphere. Hell, I caught a game in MSG towards the tail end of the break and there were so many young Devils fans, was a lot of fun. Prudential should be a great atmosphere these next couple of years as the younger crowd starts making more money and coming to more games. Not to mention that many of us are just turning 21 and can now legally (key word haha) buy alcohol at the Rock..
So then I guess what you are saying is that three teams in the NY area are too many. In that case then NJ should be moved to say a place like Quebec where it will do well from day one. That is my solution to weak sister. Sad but true.
So then I guess what you are saying is that three teams in the NY area are too many. In that case then NJ should be moved to say a place like Quebec where it will do well from day one. That is my solution to weak sister. Sad but true.
And the Post's stories were way before this announcement so it sounds to me as if the Post was right on. But you believe what you want. Time will tell what happens to the franchise. But what can't be debated is that as long as the devils play in Jersey they will never be out of the Broadway shadow. They will never have enough fans to be a rock solid franchise.
I'm glad the NYPost will take the heat instead of the 'evil' Canadian sports media this time.
So then I guess what you are saying is that three teams in the NY area are too many. In that case then NJ should be moved to say a place like Quebec where it will do well from day one. That is my solution to weak sister. Sad but true.
New Jersey has a legitimate, full-sized, modern hockey arena to skate in, which is more than can be said for the Islanders. Unless Wang can somehow come up with a hockey arena, Islanders == Jets 1.0, and we know what happened to them.
Daren Millard @darenmillard Close
@Nik802 yup. Ownership. 2 guys from toronto reportedly close to picking up 50% of the team.
Interesting..
I'm assuming Millard was just rounding up to 50% because the ownership structure as is is 48% Vanderbeek, 48% Chambers and 4% somewhere else.
Haven't heard anything about the 4% being for sale and doubt Vanderbeek would be willing to give up any of his controlling shares..
I would think the Toronto guys would be picking up Chambers' 48%. Interested how much Chambers is going to actually get out of this if the debt > value. Maybe he's just unloading to them and they'll just put that money towards paying off the debt?
Flyers came in the league in 1967. Take a look at their fan base since 1973. No cups since 1975. What is your point? It is all about winning, Since 1967 the Flyers may have the best winning % in the regular of any organization or close to it. I just do not understand why the devils always seem to have issues even when they have won mutiple cups. Why is that? Poor stadium location?
No location could be much better, honestly. You have to have lived here to understand what a pain in the ass it is to move around by car. The freeways are fine farther out but as you get closer to the city they suck. Then you add the crap streets of downtown Newark, and the cops sending you on a path where it takes 30 minutes from the freeway to a parking spot.
If you commute to NYC to work, you don't have time to come home, get your kids then turn around and make the game. Nor, frankly, would you have the stamina. So you end up working complicated handoffs of your kids from your wife to you at a train station, either Newark Penn or Newark Broad. After awhile you just give up, buy a 65" TV and watch at home.
One difference between the Devils and, say, the Rangers, is the Devils are not surrounded by enough people of sufficient means for a "walk up" crowd. The Rangers moved their game times up a few years back to make it easy to go straight from work in Manhattan to the game and not miss your last train home. I'm a Devils fan, but I attend twice as many Rangers games as Devils games for this reason and the fact my train does not go thru Newark Penn (goes thru Broad instead).
Also, Newark Penn is scary late night, even for a big guy.
This doesn't even get into the whole huge factor of hotel tourists randomly attending Rangers games as "something to do." And downtown Newark is small for corporates- it's really a bunch of government-type entities, many of which are forbidden from corporate entertaining.
What the Devils do have going for them is youth hockey, which is huge in NJ and where the kids have a very good loyalty to the Devils. It's a shame the current owner hasn't done more to promote these ties. But, of course, hard work isn't JVB's style.
"The Devils apparently have found a solution to regaining their financial footing. According to a source close to the situation, Devils Owner Jeffrey Vanderbeek has finalized a deal with a new investor that will enable the franchise to get out of debt. The source said the deal would keep Vanderbeek firmly in charge as the majority owner, while minority owners Ray Chambers and his son-in-law, Mike Gilfillan – who owned a substantial stake in the Devils through their company, Brick City – are not expected to have future roles in the organization.
The identity of the partner has yet to be announced because, according to the source, there has been an agreement to stay silent until the completion of the Devils’ season. A formal announcement of the deal is expected within two weeks of the conclusion of the Stanley Cup Final."
"The Devils apparently have found a solution to regaining their financial footing. According to a source close to the situation, Devils Owner Jeffrey Vanderbeek has finalized a deal with a new investor that will enable the franchise to get out of debt. The source said the deal would keep Vanderbeek firmly in charge as the majority owner, while minority owners Ray Chambers and his son-in-law, Mike Gilfillan – who owned a substantial stake in the Devils through their company, Brick City – are not expected to have future roles in the organization.
The identity of the partner has yet to be announced because, according to the source, there has been an agreement to stay silent until the completion of the Devils’ season. A formal announcement of the deal is expected within two weeks of the conclusion of the Stanley Cup Final."
