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NCAA-O'Bannon Case: using athlete images w/o compensation-#756 Court Favors Plaintiff

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Old
06-20-2013, 11:48 PM
  #76
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The NFL is too cheap to start a minor league so this is why this problem persist.

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06-21-2013, 02:26 AM
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http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...rticle-9146519

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A federal judge in Oakland began deliberating Thursday afternoon on whether an image-licensing lawsuit against the National Collegiate Athletic Association can proceed as a class action on behalf of thousands of current and former college athletes.

Chief U.S. District Judge Claudia Wilken is expected to take the motion for class certification under consideration after hearing arguments at 2 p.m. and to issue a written ruling at a later date.

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06-21-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by joelef View Post
The NFL is too cheap to start a minor league so this is why this problem persist.
This.

I wouldn't be this upset with this organization if kids had other options. I know only 2% of D1 football players make it to the NFL, but how many are there to simply get into the NFL? 20%?

University is not for everyone, and I hate how alot of people try to get shoehorned into this notion that top-tier athletes should automatically equal good students too.

You know, if minor league football did exist, would you even have this problem?

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06-21-2013, 12:13 PM
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You know, if minor league football did exist, would you even have this problem?
AFL anyone?

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06-21-2013, 12:24 PM
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It's not the NFL that's the issue, it's the insane profits the top schools make at this. We're talking more in revenues at your Michigans, Texases, Ohio States and co. than most pro franchises, all on the backs of totally free labor. The system could stand if there was any sort of remuneration... instead the greedy SOBs at these athletic departments are already looking for ways to skirt any regulations by dropping to D3.

I love college football. I wouldn't watch NFL Jr. or anything of the sort, I wouldn't have a tenth of the connection to a minor league football team that I do to my Wolverines. As long as millions of people feel the same way, there's nothing the NFL can really do.

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06-21-2013, 01:22 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TCNorthstars View Post

The NFL league minimum for a 10th year pro is $910,000 and you want to pay college players $1 million a piece?
The NFL is no league to look at the lowest level players: You could be out of the game and earning nothing after one play.

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06-21-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
It's not the NFL that's the issue, it's the insane profits the top schools make at this. We're talking more in revenues at your Michigans, Texases, Ohio States and co. than most pro franchises, all on the backs of totally free labor. The system could stand if there was any sort of remuneration... instead the greedy SOBs at these athletic departments are already looking for ways to skirt any regulations by dropping to D3.
Every college athletic department is a non-profit. It's not "College Football" that's a business, it's "college athletics."

Every. Single. Dime. Of what college football brings in, goes right back out in re-investment in student-athletes: funding other sports no one cares about like Ohio State's fencing team, Texas' tennis team and Michigan gymnasitcs; or put into facilities and support staff areas to improve the college athlete experience.

There's no profit. There's no shareholder bonuses. There's no lighting of cigars with $100 bills in athletics.

Stop making ridiculous statements and talk about the real issues in the O'Bannon case.

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06-21-2013, 02:09 PM
  #83
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Really? You think that it all goes right back in, huh? Our AD at Michigan makes $800,000 a year plus incentives. He left Dominos, one of Fortune's top 1000 companies, to take the job. Sure, they pay for the women's soccer team. But this is big business, don't kid yourself... you need to listen to these ADs talk about creating corporate synergies or leveraging brand equity to increase profit share to really get it.

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06-21-2013, 02:54 PM
  #84
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The highest-paid public employee in the State of North Carolina is a basketball coach.

Think about that.

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06-21-2013, 03:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
It's not the NFL that's the issue, it's the insane profits the top schools make at this. We're talking more in revenues at your Michigans, Texases, Ohio States and co. than most pro franchises, all on the backs of totally free labor. The system could stand if there was any sort of remuneration... instead the greedy SOBs at these athletic departments are already looking for ways to skirt any regulations by dropping to D3.

I love college football. I wouldn't watch NFL Jr. or anything of the sort, I wouldn't have a tenth of the connection to a minor league football team that I do to my Wolverines. As long as millions of people feel the same way, there's nothing the NFL can really do.
There a reason why you dont hear this kinda of stuff with college hockey or baseball. Because kids can go pro early or even skip college all together. Also i not one of these college for everyone people.

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06-21-2013, 04:08 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Really? You think that it all goes right back in, huh? Our AD at Michigan makes $800,000 a year plus incentives. He left Dominos, one of Fortune's top 1000 companies, to take the job. Sure, they pay for the women's soccer team. But this is big business, don't kid yourself... you need to listen to these ADs talk about creating corporate synergies or leveraging brand equity to increase profit share to really get it.
I'd have trouble watching football if the U of M didn't have a team, yet the fact that so many other people have the same feelings, resulting in the Wolverines becoming a corporate dynamo beyond the realm of the University also makes me mad, so mad that I didn't renew my student tickets this year (though I still will go to quite a few games in the non-student seats this year). I can't watch the Lions (I even had trouble that season they made the playoffs) yet I will always watch Michigan games and will watch other games thinking about how they will effect Michigan on the Conference or even National picture.

But yeah, David Brandon is proof that these teams may be bigger than the student athletes and even possibly the students in the student section. Regarding the SEC Athletic Directors, I can say it is bigger than the students with certainty. It's even run away from some of the traditions which made college football, particularly Wolverines football, unique in the first place. All the alternate jerseys and such, the winged helmet has changed about 4 times in the last 3 years, which is kinda absurd. Yet these alternate jerseys sell like hotcakes and any good businessman would make these changes, even though I couldn't see the bright yellow player numbers during the CapitalOne Bowl this year. I haven't even gotten to how the Student Athletes are hurt, which is the topic of this thread.

I might be the only college football fan as self-loathing as this, but I think I'm pretty justified. Considering this whole "Michigan Man" culture which has been floating around the campus since the 80's, I even have trouble talking about my concerns. It has gotten to the point that if you express your anger at the way the Athletic Department does things, you are considered a killjoy who has no loyalty to the University or your fellow students. The Athletic Department feeds on this line of thinking to make even more money. This is a shame, because I've been a Wolverines fan since 2002-2003 (when I started watching sports) and partially went to the U of M because of my loyalty.

I guess I should use an example of student athlete to just show how things have become in relation to this article. Tate Forcier had no business starting at QB for Michigan, he had too many personal issues (being trained by Marv Marinovich probably didn't help); yet he still gets completely crapped on for the events surrounding his downfall. Not only did the University make money off of him when he had no business being here, he's also the butt of the jokes of students, probably because he had no business being there despite the University wanting him because he could throw a ball and run fast. His jerseys still sell btw, they don't have his name on them, so people just pick them up. They are on sale, but I have no doubt people are still profiting off those sales.

Needless to say, I'm siding with O'Bannon on this one.

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06-21-2013, 04:16 PM
  #87
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I like the Ivy League model.

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06-21-2013, 04:20 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concordski View Post
I'd have trouble watching football if the U of M didn't have a team, yet the fact that so many other people have the same feelings, resulting in the Wolverines becoming a corporate dynamo beyond the realm of the University also makes me mad, so mad that I didn't renew my student tickets this year (though I still will go to quite a few games in the non-student seats this year). I can't watch the Lions (I even had trouble that season they made the playoffs) yet I will always watch Michigan games and will watch other games thinking about how they will effect Michigan on the Conference or even National picture.

But yeah, David Brandon is proof that these teams may be bigger than the student athletes and even possibly the students in the student section. Regarding the SEC Athletic Directors, I can say it is bigger than the students with certainty. It's even run away from some of the traditions which made college football, particularly Wolverines football, unique in the first place. All the alternate jerseys and such, the winged helmet has changed about 4 times in the last 3 years, which is kinda absurd. Yet these alternate jerseys sell like hotcakes and any good businessman would make these changes, even though I couldn't see the bright yellow player numbers during the CapitalOne Bowl this year. I haven't even gotten to how the Student Athletes are hurt, which is the topic of this thread.

I might be the only college football fan as self-loathing as this, but I think I'm pretty justified. Considering this whole "Michigan Man" culture which has been floating around the campus since the 80's, I even have trouble talking about my concerns. It has gotten to the point that if you express your anger at the way the Athletic Department does things, you are considered a killjoy who has no loyalty to the University or your fellow students. The Athletic Department feeds on this line of thinking to make even more money. This is a shame, because I've been a Wolverines fan since 2002-2003 (when I started watching sports) and partially went to the U of M because of my loyalty.

I guess I should use an example of student athlete to just show how things have become in relation to this article. Tate Forcier had no business starting at QB for Michigan, he had too many personal issues (being trained by Marv Marinovich probably didn't help); yet he still gets completely crapped on for the events surrounding his downfall. Not only did the University make money off of him when he had no business being here, he's also the butt of the jokes of students, probably because he had no business being there despite the University wanting him because he could throw a ball and run fast. His jerseys still sell btw, they don't have his name on them, so people just pick them up. They are on sale, but I have no doubt people are still profiting off those sales.

Needless to say, I'm siding with O'Bannon on this one.
I dont like the fact the TAXPAYERS pay for these kids who simply dont care about getting a degree .

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06-21-2013, 04:22 PM
  #89
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only in certain cases... most of the major schools ADs are largely self sustaining.

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06-21-2013, 04:22 PM
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I like the Ivy League model.
"Financial" when they see fit while hiding behind the no-scholarship tag?

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06-21-2013, 04:32 PM
  #91
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only in certain cases... most of the major schools ADs are largely self sustaining.
And, I may add, certainly not in Michigan's case, it's become an international brand.

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06-21-2013, 04:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Really? You think that it all goes right back in, huh? Our AD at Michigan makes $800,000 a year plus incentives. He left Dominos, one of Fortune's top 1000 companies, to take the job. Sure, they pay for the women's soccer team. But this is big business, don't kid yourself... you need to listen to these ADs talk about creating corporate synergies or leveraging brand equity to increase profit share to really get it.
Don't think "College Athletics" is ONLY schools like Michigan, Texas, Ohio State, and Florida. There's 343 schools in Division I. Grambling's entire athletics budget is about $4 million.

But hey, let's stop offering chances for kids who can't afford it to get an education thanks to their athletic skill, just because NCAA policy needs to be based on the economic situtation the media writes about that only applies to less than 1% of its student-athletes! Great idea.

(This would be like putting the NHL salary midpoint at $170 million because every player should be compensated like Suter and Parise).

All the stories the media throws at you about how much money a student-athlete bring a university is total crap. People THINK someone says "look how much money Florida made off Tim Tebow!" that these guys deserve to be compensated.

It really doesn't work like that. The Florida Gators aren't making revenue off Tim Tebow. They're making money because the Florida Gators have a really good quarterback.

If Tim Tebow went to Delaware, he wouldn't be making the same amount of revenue for Delaware has "he made for" Florida. He'd make the same amount of revenue for Delaware that Joe Flacco made for Delaware.

Funny how you mocked synergy, but the synergy of Tebow and Florida enabled that revenue generation. It wasn't Tebow by himself because Danny Wuerffel brought Florida substatial revenue from being Florida's QB; And it wasn't Florida by themselves, because Wuerffel and Tebow brought in more revenue than when Doug Johnson was the QB.


If these athletes are what's generating this revenue by themselves,
how do you explain Jerry Rice's alma mater having an entire Athletics budget under $4 million?

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06-21-2013, 04:44 PM
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Many fellow americans have this very naive attitude about the college establishment in this country. On another forum i said that probably half of the kids that go to college would be better off in apprenticiship and/or trade school and got HAMMERED for it. Its even worst with college sports. Its almost seems that college sports should be immuned to any sort of critisim .

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06-21-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Don't think "College Athletics" is ONLY schools like Michigan, Texas, Ohio State, and Florida. There's 343 schools in Division I. Grambling's entire athletics budget is about $4 million.

But hey, let's stop offering chances for kids who can't afford it to get an education thanks to their athletic skill, just because NCAA policy needs to be based on the economic situtation the media writes about that only applies to less than 1% of its student-athletes! Great idea.

(This would be like putting the NHL salary midpoint at $170 million because every player should be compensated like Suter and Parise).

All the stories the media throws at you about how much money a student-athlete bring a university is total crap. People THINK someone says "look how much money Florida made off Tim Tebow!" that these guys deserve to be compensated.

It really doesn't work like that. The Florida Gators aren't making revenue off Tim Tebow. They're making money because the Florida Gators have a really good quarterback.

If Tim Tebow went to Delaware, he wouldn't be making the same amount of revenue for Delaware has "he made for" Florida. He'd make the same amount of revenue for Delaware that Joe Flacco made for Delaware.

Funny how you mocked synergy, but the synergy of Tebow and Florida enabled that revenue generation. It wasn't Tebow by himself because Danny Wuerffel brought Florida substatial revenue from being Florida's QB; And it wasn't Florida by themselves, because Wuerffel and Tebow brought in more revenue than when Doug Johnson was the QB.


If these athletes are what's generating this revenue by themselves,
how do you explain Jerry Rice's alma mater having an entire Athletics budget under $4 million?
many of those kids arent interested in education and is only there because the NFL requires you to have three years of college.

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06-21-2013, 04:48 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Don't think "College Athletics" is ONLY schools like Michigan, Texas, Ohio State, and Florida. There's 343 schools in Division I. Grambling's entire athletics budget is about $4 million.

But hey, let's stop offering chances for kids who can't afford it to get an education thanks to their athletic skill, just because NCAA policy needs to be based on the economic situtation the media writes about that only applies to less than 1% of its student-athletes! Great idea.

(This would be like putting the NHL salary midpoint at $170 million because every player should be compensated like Suter and Parise).

All the stories the media throws at you about how much money a student-athlete bring a university is total crap. People THINK someone says "look how much money Florida made off Tim Tebow!" that these guys deserve to be compensated.

It really doesn't work like that. The Florida Gators aren't making revenue off Tim Tebow. They're making money because the Florida Gators have a really good quarterback.

If Tim Tebow went to Delaware, he wouldn't be making the same amount of revenue for Delaware has "he made for" Florida. He'd make the same amount of revenue for Delaware that Joe Flacco made for Delaware.

Funny how you mocked synergy, but the synergy of Tebow and Florida enabled that revenue generation. It wasn't Tebow by himself because Danny Wuerffel brought Florida substatial revenue from being Florida's QB; And it wasn't Florida by themselves, because Wuerffel and Tebow brought in more revenue than when Doug Johnson was the QB.

If these athletes are what's generating this revenue by themselves,
how do you explain Jerry Rice's alma mater having an entire Athletics budget under $4 million?
These big name football teams would have been nothing had they not had good players who helped them win at one point or another, the Ivy League had powerful programs, but that changed when they got rid of athletic scholarships and their talent declined. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE PLAYERS.

Also, Jerry Rice was only one great player in a generally mediocre program.

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06-21-2013, 04:49 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by joelef View Post
Many fellow americans have this very naive attitude about the college establishment in this country. On another forum i said that probably half of the kids that go to college would be better off in apprenticiship and/or trade school and got HAMMERED for it. Its even worst with college sports. Its almost seems that college sports should be immuned to any sort of critisim .
Yes and no...

Half the kids who go to college don't finish anyway. They just end up with student loans, no education and would be better off. So you're right.

College athletes on scholarship would not be better off; because their grad rates are MUCH higher than the general population of college students; and they're not taking on the burden of student loans (or as much student loans).

And we've become a society where if you don't have a college degree, no one is hiring you.

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06-21-2013, 04:52 PM
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Yes and no...

Half the kids who go to college don't finish anyway. They just end up with student loans, no education and would be better off. So you're right.

College athletes on scholarship would not be better off; because their grad rates are MUCH higher than the general population of college students; and they're not taking on the burden of student loans (or as much student loans).

And we've become a society where if you don't have a college degree, no one is hiring you.
because we have inflated the field with to many college graduates holders but thats another topic for another forum.

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06-21-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Yes and no...

Half the kids who go to college don't finish anyway. They just end up with student loans, no education and would be better off. So you're right.

College athletes on scholarship would not be better off; because their grad rates are MUCH higher than the general population of college students; and they're not taking on the burden of student loans (or as much student loans).

And we've become a society where if you don't have a college degree, no one is hiring you.
then privatize college sports

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06-21-2013, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Yes and no...

Half the kids who go to college don't finish anyway. They just end up with student loans, no education and would be better off. So you're right.

College athletes on scholarship would not be better off; because their grad rates are MUCH higher than the general population of college students; and they're not taking on the burden of student loans (or as much student loans).

And we've become a society where if you don't have a college degree, no one is hiring you.
because of lot of those kids care abut education because there sports arent being watch by millions of people on tv and its the highist level they will play in there sport.

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06-21-2013, 05:16 PM
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These big name football teams would have been nothing had they not had good players who helped them win at one point or another, the Ivy League had powerful programs, but that changed when they got rid of athletic scholarships and their talent declined. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE PLAYERS.

Also, Jerry Rice was only one great player in a generally mediocre program.
That's the point: The individual talent of the individual players is not what is making the revenue. Who the individual you have playing for you is immaterial.

It's the performance of the school relative to the rest of teams in college athletics.

Good players help you win. But it doesn't matter WHO that talented player is. All that matters is that your talent is better than everyone elses.

If you take away all the "Stars" of college football and college basketball, the fans are still going to show up and pay money, and TV is still going to give money to THE BEST athletic departments.

Take a look at college basketball, where guys like Kobe, Garnett and LeBron have skipped college and went to the pros; and hundreds more players have left college early.

The talent level of college basketball has gone DRAMATICALLY down in the last 20 years. Everyone in the media says the quality of college basketball as a sport is at an all-time low.

That hasn't hurt the revenue-generating ability of the sport one bit.

Without Kobe, LeBron and Garnett, the NCAA Tournament kept rolling along. Players "worse" than those guys became the "best players" in college basketball, guys like Adam Morrisson and JJ Redick.

College sports aren't popular because of the star players. College sports MAKES the best players stars.

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