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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Best years from a player that resulted in no award(s)? Team awards exception.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:00 PM
  #1
I Hate Chris Butler
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Best years from a player that resulted in no award(s)? Team awards exception.

Who are some players you honestly thought played well enough to win an award, and had a great year (maybe their best), yet received nothing?

To me, the most recent Norris. I honestly felt like Chara should have won and that he doesn't get enough credit for helping to make Thomas' year as great as it was.

Also this year, I thought Ryan Kesler only received the Selke because he had been losing it to Datsyuk for the last two years. If anyone deserved it, to me it was Manny Malhotra, but he didn't have the sexy numbers to pull it off.

EDIT: Chara actually won the Mark Messier Leadership award, and the Plus-Minus, but for argument's sake lets stick to the big ones in this thread:

Selke
Hart
Lindsay
Art Ross
Rocket
Norris
Vezina
Calder
Conn Smythe


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Old
09-13-2011, 01:03 PM
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Lemieux only got the art ross for his 199 pt season. Gretzky took the hart and yzerman took the pearson

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:04 PM
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But he still won an award that season.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:04 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Is this a thread about players who we feel were robbed of awards or players who played well enough to win an award if it were another season but were unlucky enough to have someone have an even better season?

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:08 PM
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Tuukka Rask should have won the Vezina and Calder in 2009-2010

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Is this a thread about players who we feel were robbed of awards or players who played well enough to win an award if it were another season but were unlucky enough to have someone have an even better season?
If you can think of examples for either, both.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyler Seguin View Post
Tuukka Rask should have won the Vezina and Calder in 2009-2010
Calder, possibly. But I'm not convinced that 45 games played should be enough to win the Vezina. Maybe if a goalie produces exceptional stats, but Rask's were 'merely' slightly better than Ryan Miller. Imo, for a 45GP season to get you the Vezina, you'd have to be absolutely sensational.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:17 PM
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Roberto Luongo in 2003-04 is the most egregious example I can think of.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:25 PM
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Players who should have won but were "robbed" IMO:

Sergei Fedorov, 1997 Conn Smythe
Nicklas Lidstrom, 1998 and 2009 Norris Trophies

Players who had great seasons that were better than many award-winning seasons, but lost to a guy who was judged to have an even better season:

Scott Stevens, 1994 Norris
Jaromir Jagr, 1996 Art Ross
Martin Brodeur, 1997 Vezina
Jaromir Jagr, 1998 Hart (Edit: He did win the AR, so I guess doesn't count for this thread)
Patrick Roy, 2002 Vezina
Scott Niedermayer, 2003 Conn Smythe
Roberto Luongo, 2007 Vezina

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Roberto Luongo in 2003-04 is the most egregious example I can think of.
I remember that. Didn't he put up something ridiculous like a .933 SV%?

EDIT: .931 according to the interwebs, but that is still crazy.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:35 PM
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Reds4Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Players who should have won but were "robbed" IMO:

Sergei Fedorov, 1997 Conn Smythe
Nicklas Lidstrom, 1998 and 2009 Norris Trophies
Yes, agreed on both. Especially that Conn Smythe. What a joke that Vernon got it.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:37 PM
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Yes, agreed on both. Especially that Conn Smythe. What a joke that Vernon got it.
Yeah he was horrible going 16-4 with a .927 and 1.76GAA

I mean I agree Fedorov has a good case for it too, but man we tear people down a little too easily around here sometimes.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:45 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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By the way, as someone who thinks Lidstrom got "robbed" of the Norris in 1998 and 2009, I don't actually think he deserved the 2011 trophy. I think Weber or Chara would have been a better choice, but I couldn't pick which one, so I didn't list either of them as being "robbed." Plus, it was honestly the weakest year for defensemen in a long time.

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09-13-2011, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
By the way, as someone who thinks Lidstrom got "robbed" of the Norris in 1998 and 2009, I don't actually think he deserved the 2011 trophy. I think Weber or Chara would have been a better choice, but I couldn't pick which one, so I didn't list either of them as being "robbed." Plus, it was honestly the weakest year for defensemen in a long time.
Everything about the awards smelled fishy to me. How did someone like Daniel Sedin lose when he more or less did exactly what Henrik did last year? How did Thomas not even get a nomination for either the Hart or Lindsay? It was also a joke to see a minus player win the Norris. Granted, Plus-Minus isn't the best to judge a player's ability, but a defenseman who's on the ice for more ESGA than EVGF and SHGA should not win the Norris, imo.

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09-13-2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Yeah he was horrible going 16-4 with a .927 and 1.76GAA

I mean I agree Fedorov has a good case for it too, but man we tear people down a little too easily around here sometimes.
Yeah, he had good stats, but he never stole a game and played behind a great defensive team.

Chris Osgood, 2008
14-4
.930
1.55

Yet, anyone who watched Red Wings play now that Zetterberg was the MVP..and he got the Conn Smythe. Unfortunately for Fedorov, NHL just wasn't ready to give Conn Smythe to a Russian in 1997.

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Old
09-13-2011, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
Everything about the awards smelled fishy to me. How did someone like Daniel Sedin lose when he more or less did exactly what Henrik did last year? How did Thomas not even get a nomination for either the Hart or Lindsay? It was also a joke to see a minus player win the Norris. Granted, Plus-Minus isn't the best to judge a player's ability, but a defenseman who's on the ice for more ESGA than EVGF and SHGA should not win the Norris, imo.
I don't think there was anything fishy about the awards. Lidstrom got off to a ridiculously good start and rode the early season hype to the award - similar to Chara in 2009 IMO.

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09-13-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
Everything about the awards smelled fishy to me. How did someone like Daniel Sedin lose when he more or less did exactly what Henrik did last year? How did Thomas not even get a nomination for either the Hart or Lindsay? It was also a joke to see a minus player win the Norris. Granted, Plus-Minus isn't the best to judge a player's ability, but a defenseman who's on the ice for more ESGA than EVGF and SHGA should not win the Norris, imo.
Even in the case that he is always playing against the opposition's best and playing close to even with them while the rest of his team feasts on the weaker opposition? It wasn't like he was a -20.

I'm not sure what Lidstrom's usage was exactly last year, I know he is slowing down but I am pretty sure he still got a lot of tough line matching.

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Old
09-13-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
By the way, as someone who thinks Lidstrom got "robbed" of the Norris in 1998 and 2009, I don't actually think he deserved the 2011 trophy. I think Weber or Chara would have been a better choice, but I couldn't pick which one, so I didn't list either of them as being "robbed." Plus, it was honestly the weakest year for defensemen in a long time.
Do you think Chara and Weber put up weak seasons or do you mean by weak year that there were only two performances worthy of consideration (Chara and Weber)?

Just curious...

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Old
09-13-2011, 02:25 PM
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Do you think Chara and Weber put up weak seasons or do you mean by weak year that there were only two performances worthy of consideration (Chara and Weber)?

Just curious...
I don't think any defensemen put up all-time great seasons in 2010-11. Every one of the top candidates had flaws:

Lidstrom: slowed down and got easier matchups as the season went on, put up a ton of points on the PP, was good but not great at even strength

Weber: the best-rounded of the bunch. Good offense and defense, but not elite at either. usually played on Nashville's 2nd PK, not the first unit. Overshadowed defensively by his partner.

Chara: the best defensively of the candidates, but good enough defensively to make up for the fact that he was terrible on the PP?

Visnovsky: Great offense, but got easier matchups at even strength and barely killed penalties.

Edit: I think the 2011 Norris is kind of the opposite of what this thread is about. In most other seasons, you have multiple defensemen who would have put up seasons better than anyone did in 2011.

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Old
09-13-2011, 02:40 PM
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Mark Howe's 85-86 would have won the Norris in almost any other season, but Paul Coffey was setting records that year.

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Old
09-13-2011, 02:52 PM
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Crosby wins the Calder by a huge margin in any year but his rookie year.

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Old
09-13-2011, 03:11 PM
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Doug Gilmour in 1994

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Old
09-13-2011, 03:29 PM
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Jaromir Jagr 1996?

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Old
09-13-2011, 04:06 PM
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Chris Chelios got stuck with Mario Lemieux in his rookie year. In my lifetime, I think only Bourque had a better rookie year as a d-man.

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09-13-2011, 04:18 PM
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Pat Lafontaine 92-93 - 148pts
Marcel Dionne 81-82 - 135pts
Paul Coffey 83-84 - 126pts
Mike Bossy 78-79 - 126pts (career high with 69 goals)

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