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Tim Bernhardt let go

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Old
09-13-2011, 02:18 PM
  #1
Stars99Lobo37
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Tim Bernhardt let go

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/stars...ctor-bernhardt

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"It's a situation that is difficult," said Nieuwendyk, who is in Traverse City for the NHL Prospect Tournament. "I think Tim has done some wonderful things here over the years and has his fingerprints are on a lot of things. However, we've just had a difference of opinion and I think that is where I'll leave it."

Bernhardt was in Traverse City for the tournament as well and Nieuwendyk told him of the decision during a face-to-face meeting. Bernhardt joined the Stars as an amateur scout in 1993-94 and was named Director of Amateur Scouting in 1998-99. He was a key player in Dallas Stars drafts.

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Old
09-13-2011, 02:23 PM
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Les Jackson, Director of Scouting and Player Development, will oversee amateur scouting now.
What exactly does amateur scouting oversee? What constitutes an amateur vs any other prospect?

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09-13-2011, 02:33 PM
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What exactly does amateur scouting oversee? What constitutes an amateur vs any other prospect?
Amateur means kids in junior leagues, prep schools, and high schools vs. pro scouts who focus on echl, ahl, other pro leagues, and nhl teams.

Bernhardt was responsible for the Campbell pick. He was also in charge when the team took Glennie. He's a goalie guy and his guy hasn't been nearly as good as several others drafted after him. Niewy backed him up but at the end of the day it was his call. I for one will not miss him.

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09-13-2011, 02:37 PM
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More Les Jackson is almost always a good thing. I am happy with it. It will be interesting to see if any of our scouts move to wherever Tim lands.

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09-13-2011, 02:48 PM
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Mark talks to Joe personally:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/stars...ctor-bernhardt

Quote:
"It's a situation that is difficult," said Nieuwendyk, who is in Traverse City for the NHL Prospect Tournament. "I think Tim has done some wonderful things here over the years and has his fingerprints are on a lot of things. However, we've just had a difference of opinion and I think that is where I'll leave it."
If he's the guy who's responsible for our first round draft picks the past few years.. not all that sad to see him go.

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09-13-2011, 02:56 PM
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When you say fingerprints, most of the time you don't want to see fingerprints on anything. I don't think Joe was happy about Tim's drafting as of late... at all.

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09-13-2011, 02:57 PM
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Wow, did he have a big hand in drafting Oleksiak too? I'm surprised by this, wonder who will snatch him up, there are some lousy scouting teams out there.

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09-13-2011, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
When you say fingerprints, most of the time you don't want to see fingerprints on anything. I don't think Joe was happy about Tim's drafting as of late... at all.
Not exactly. Hakan Andersson's fingerprints are all over Detroit's European drafting over the last decade and a half. I don't think you'll find anybody to say that's a bad thing.

All in all the last few years have seen the Stars' prospect pool become deeper and more talented. I'm not saying it was right or wrong to get rid of him but I do think it's a little difficult for us as fans to know who was responsible for what. This could have been something that was building from a personal standpoint for a while, we can't really know.

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Bernhardt was responsible for the Campbell pick. He was also in charge when the team took Glennie. He's a goalie guy and his guy hasn't been nearly as good as several others drafted after him. Niewy backed him up but at the end of the day it was his call. I for one will not miss him.
I was against the Campbell pick when it happened because history shows you can get (good/great) goaltenders anywhere in the draft. Having said that, if Campbell having a tough first year of junior hockey is the main reason for firing Bernhardt then that is beyond asinine.


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09-13-2011, 03:27 PM
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The last decade and half of Detroit's drafting has been mediocre outside of Hakan's draft miracles.

DRW Draft History

Arguably better than ours, but still. Not a whole lot to write home about after 2004 though.

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09-13-2011, 03:55 PM
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I'm absolutely thrilled about this.

I've said before that for the first couple of years of his regime, Joe was correct to delegate authority and follow the advice of those already in place in the organization. A GM has to trust his scouts' recommendations and decisions or the entire system breaks down. But, if several years passed and they were still making blunders like the Campbell selection, the onus would change from Bernhardt to Nieuwendyk. After a certain point the existing guys become Joe's guys, for better or worse. If there's a significant difference of philosophy present it will be ultimately impossible to draft effectively with a coherent strategy that integrates prospects into the final team.

I applaud Joe for taking the next step that needed to be done to bring our drafting and player development into the highest tier. This is his team now, fully and finally.

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09-13-2011, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
The last decade and half of Detroit's drafting has been mediocre outside of Hakan's draft miracles.

DRW Draft History

Arguably better than ours, but still. Not a whole lot to write home about after 2004 though.
They also have one of the hardest lineups in the league to break into. The fact of the matter is that they are a great team year after year and their best players are Andersson's guys, all of them. Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen all owe their presence in Detroit in some part to Hakan Andersson.

Is their drafting maybe slightly overrated, with media thinking every mid-late round pick is going to be a gem? Possibly. The thing is, you really only need to hit a homerun every once in a while to even be competitive. They have hit homeruns enough times to open every season as legitimate Cup contenders every season for the last fifteen years. That's no accident.

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09-13-2011, 04:28 PM
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I like this. Don't like the way our scouting has gone for players, it's changed a bit since Niewendyk has gotten more familiar with the team and you could tell. I can imagine that they had a lot of disagreements.

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09-13-2011, 04:46 PM
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I dunno it seems like we have drafted pretty well lately. I think the Campbell pick is a huge mistake (although all indications are they still love Campbell) and the Glennie pick I think was a mistake but not such big one. Id rather have a few players who were drafted after him but not even close to as badly as Id prefer Fowler or Gormley to Campbell. We've drafted 16 players in the last 3 years and theres not a single one of them that I feel certain will never play a role in the nhl. Also I have pertty high hopes for a pretty good percentage of them. Our prospect system is as good as its been in a loooong time.

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09-13-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
I dunno it seems like we have drafted pretty well lately. I think the Campbell pick is a huge mistake (although all indications are they still love Campbell) and the Glennie pick I think was a mistake but not such big one. Id rather have a few players who were drafted after him but not even close to as badly as Id prefer Fowler or Gormley to Campbell. We've drafted 16 players in the last 3 years and theres not a single one of them that I feel certain will never play a role in the nhl. Also I have pertty high hopes for a pretty good percentage of them. Our prospect system is as good as its been in a loooong time.
Well they're never going to say publicly that they're dissatisfied with Campbell. What counts are their actions. There's no way he'd be getting returned to the OHL this year had he performed to their expectations.

I would've wanted Kulikov over Glennie just as much as Fowler or Gormley over Campbell. Each pick was bad enough; taken together they're certainly fireable offenses.

Our recent drafts, viewed as a whole, have shown improvement and the system is generally looking up, as it should be after 3 years out of the playoffs. But the 1st round is several magnitudes of importance higher than the rest of the picks. A budget team can't afford to be screwing around with selections in the top 15.

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09-13-2011, 04:57 PM
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This seems more like a personal thing and less about a body of work. Keep in mind Bernhardt was responsible for finding Fraser and Dillon as FA's too. He's got a decent track record. This is probably more about something we'll never know than 1st round draft records.

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09-13-2011, 04:57 PM
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Finallllyyyy!!!!! I've always hated that guy. He was a dick every time I tried to even say hello. Your scouting sucks buddy, have fun outside of Dallas.

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09-13-2011, 05:03 PM
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well Kulikov vs Glennie I find hard to fault on scouting. It was reported that if he weren't Russian the stars would have taken Kulikov. That sounds like an entirely different issue to me.

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09-13-2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I was against the Campbell pick when it happened because history shows you can get (good/great) goaltenders anywhere in the draft. Having said that, if Campbell having a tough first year of junior hockey is the main reason for firing Bernhardt then that is beyond asinine.
I don't think of it as Campbell alone but more of if we had Folwer or Gormley then Dallas probably doesn't sign Daley to that god awful contract, our current defense is better and perhaps we go a different direction than defense, defense more defense this past year.

Bernhardt has a say in the draft overall but the later picks are usually heavily influenced by local scouts and cross checkers. Bernhardt focuses on the top of the draft not the bottom and yes he should have been let go for Campbell not because Campbell sucked this year, though that didn't help but because he made the wrong call in the first place. Just like he did when he passed on MSP and Kulikov to take Glennie instead.

Glennie may turn out to be a fine player and a good choice over their careers but I'd still trade him straight up for MSP/Kulikov as would pretty much every one else.


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09-13-2011, 05:21 PM
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I don't think of it as Campbell alone but more of if we had Folwer or Forbot then Dallas probably doesn't sign Daley to that god awful contract, our current defense is better and perhaps we go a different direction than defense, defense more defense this past year.

Bernhardt has a say in the draft overall but the later picks are usually heavily influenced by local scouts and cross checkers. Bernhardt focuses on the top of the draft not the bottom and yes he should have been let go for Campbell not because Campbell sucked this year, thought that didn't help but because he made the wrong call in the first place. Just like he did when he passed on MSP and Kulikov to take Glennie instead.

Glennie may turn out to be a fine player and a good choice over their careers but I'd still trade him straight up for MSP/Kulikov as would pretty much every one else.
Yeah Id trade Glennie for those 2 and probalby Cowen as well. Campbell I think youd have to add significantly to in order to get Fowler, Gormley or even Forbort. At this point I doubt you could even trade him straight up for several players drafted in the 12-40 range.

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09-13-2011, 06:35 PM
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Well they're never going to say publicly that they're dissatisfied with Campbell. What counts are their actions. There's no way he'd be getting returned to the OHL this year had he performed to their expectations.

I would've wanted Kulikov over Glennie just as much as Fowler or Gormley over Campbell. Each pick was bad enough; taken together they're certainly fireable offenses.

Our recent drafts, viewed as a whole, have shown improvement and the system is generally looking up, as it should be after 3 years out of the playoffs. But the 1st round is several magnitudes of importance higher than the rest of the picks. A budget team can't afford to be screwing around with selections in the top 15.
Where would he go if he did? We've got Lehtonen and Raycroft here, and Bachman and Besko in the AHL (which he couldn't go to anyways).

ECHL? I think the OHL is a stronger league than there. I think unless he proved he could play in the NHL (which no one expected, and was virtually impossible) he'd be going back to juniors. I think once he does make the jump to the AHL is when we'll see someone traded, or Raycroft let go and have Bachman fill his spot.

Campbell is still a good 3-4 years away from significant time in the NHL, especially considering how deep we are at goaltending at the moment.

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09-13-2011, 06:59 PM
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ECHL? I think the OHL is a stronger league than there.
That's not true at all. Imagine the ECHL as a league full of CHL overagers and then add 3-4 developmental years onto that, with a few 30+ vets sprinkled around.

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09-13-2011, 07:31 PM
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well Kulikov vs Glennie I find hard to fault on scouting. It was reported that if he weren't Russian the stars would have taken Kulikov. That sounds like an entirely different issue to me.
I still don't buy that. I didn't really think ANY team bought into that warped mindset. Considering arguably the greatest defenseman who ever played for the Stars was Russian, it seems rather myopic to close the door on a talent like Kulikov simply because of his origin.

Man, it stings just thinking about that draft now.

Does anyone else here go through our past draft threads, just to reflect on our reactions? I still do, lol

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09-13-2011, 07:47 PM
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Where would he go if he did? We've got Lehtonen and Raycroft here, and Bachman and Besko in the AHL (which he couldn't go to anyways).
That's incorrect. Campbell is eligible to play in the AHL. He wasn't drafted out of the CHL.
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ECHL? I think the OHL is a stronger league than there.
I disagree.
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I think once he does make the jump to the AHL is when we'll see someone traded, or Raycroft let go and have Bachman fill his spot.
What you describe could've easily been done this offseason had things gone well.

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09-13-2011, 07:54 PM
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Regardless he would be better off in the CHL. You don't stick a top prospect in the ECHL.

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09-13-2011, 08:11 PM
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Campbell really doesn't matter. We all knew he'd be a 4 year prospect anyways. It'd have been nice to have him jump straight to the AHL but I'm personally in favor of not rushing prospects anyways. I think its best he does another year of Juniors no matter what.

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