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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal.

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:17 PM
  #651
SenzZen
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All I'm sure of is feeding time is over.

I never made any statements of what he will be. Just that yours was stupid for stating what he won't be.

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11-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
How would you feel about Nazem Kadri if he was ours, which he would have been if Toronto didn't take him ahead of us.
Kadri will probably be a 45-60 pt guy.

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11-29-2012, 03:24 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
How often can we put up with impatient outbursts from posters that expect every prospect to be something by Christmas time at 19 years old. I wasn't just talking about moving around the lineup, hell, I was barely talking about that.

I'm talking, small ice NA, big ice SWE, small ice WJC, concussion, big ice SWE. Let the kid play in one spot.

It's the Sens job to put him in the best environment to develop...I can't see how their decision is something to gripe over. But most fans do gripe irrationally, and you appear to be just like most fans.
This will be one of the best WJC tournmanets in history, Zibby has a chance to compete against Yakupov, Huberdeau, RNH, Hamilton, Noessen - this will be a tournament of stacked competition and we are keeping him away from that?

I don't see why it's irrational to ask a #6 overall pick to go to a tournament and dominate it against the best competition in his age group. I do expect him to dominate a tournament like this, and he should dominate it, the reason he sin't going is because the Sens are worried he can't or won't dominate

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11-29-2012, 03:28 PM
  #654
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Comparing SEL numbers year-by-year for different prospects can be deceptive unless put in perspective. Most players get very little ice-time and no power play time. Some players are more physically mature and are thrown out there against men earlier, lika Ziba.

Fact is Zibanejad put up 5 goals in SEL playing top-6 minutes and getting power play ice. I can agree to many things John Holmes is saying on the expectations on him being a big-time producer.

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11-29-2012, 03:30 PM
  #655
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How? It's so clear if what some think is true. We lacked forwards at the time, and I believe instead of going BPA, we went for a forward instead, so no Hamilton. Couturier was not selected because of mono and less than ideal character. Mistake or not, it's not baffling.
A mistake IMO.

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11-29-2012, 03:34 PM
  #656
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A mistake IMO.
Agreed, but it doesn't mean Zibanejad can't be a consistent top 90 forward.

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11-29-2012, 03:42 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Gil Gunderson View Post
A mistake IMO.
People seem to forget that at the time they took Zibanejad, they didn't know they would get Noesen, Puemple, Prince, Filatov and Pageau afterwards. Or that they would trade Rundblad for Turris. What if the BPA for the picks after Zibby were only (mostly) defensemen?

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11-29-2012, 03:43 PM
  #658
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I think he's looking more like a top 9 forward than a top 3 forward.

There's nothing wrong with that, he hasn't shown us anything to think otherwise at this point.

Is Couturier looking like the better player at this point? Absolutely. He played a huge role on a playoff team in the NHL this year.

Does that mean that Z-Bad is incapable of eclipsing him in terms of impact? No, it doesn't.

He's learned hockey under different circumstances in a completely different system. As a physical player, he has to adjust from playing in a league where it's an afterthought, to where guys have been checking for years. It was always going to be an adjustment for him.

You have to be patient with these Swedish players.

Another physical guy, Niklas Kronwall, didn't start in the NHL until he was 25 years old, six years after he was drafted. I'd say he's turned out ok.

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11-29-2012, 03:48 PM
  #659
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For anyone who thinks differently, according to Tim Murray on 1200 it was Zibanejad's decision to stay with his teammates in bingo.

The real deal just got realer.
Commitment. That is what it takes.


Last edited by Icelevel: 11-29-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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11-29-2012, 05:02 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by StikTBo View Post
People seem to forget that at the time they took Zibanejad, they didn't know they would get Noesen, Puemple, Prince, Filatov and Pageau afterwards. Or that they would trade Rundblad for Turris. What if the BPA for the picks after Zibby were only (mostly) defensemen?
Which is why you take BPA. You can't know for certain what will happen in the near future.

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11-29-2012, 05:07 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
This will be one of the best WJC tournmanets in history, Zibby has a chance to compete against Yakupov, Huberdeau, RNH, Hamilton, Noessen - this will be a tournament of stacked competition and we are keeping him away from that?

I don't see why it's irrational to ask a #6 overall pick to go to a tournament and dominate it against the best competition in his age group. I do expect him to dominate a tournament like this, and he should dominate it, the reason he sin't going is because the Sens are worried he can't or won't dominate
lol wut?

and IDK, but how can people say Silfverberg will be amazing with 9 points and Zinbanejad will be a bust with 7 points.....

sometimes i just don't understand. these guys are going through a big change and it takes time, just relax. Think less right now in terms of points.

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11-29-2012, 05:22 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
This will be one of the best WJC tournmanets in history, Zibby has a chance to compete against Yakupov, Huberdeau, RNH, Hamilton, Noessen - this will be a tournament of stacked competition and we are keeping him away from that?

I don't see why it's irrational to ask a #6 overall pick to go to a tournament and dominate it against the best competition in his age group. I do expect him to dominate a tournament like this, and he should dominate it, the reason he sin't going is because the Sens are worried he can't or won't dominate
Where's that gif of the laughing black people when I need it.

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11-29-2012, 05:24 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Comparing SEL numbers year-by-year for different prospects can be deceptive unless put in perspective. Most players get very little ice-time and no power play time. Some players are more physically mature and are thrown out there against men earlier, lika Ziba.

Fact is Zibanejad put up 5 goals in SEL playing top-6 minutes and getting power play ice. I can agree to many things John Holmes is saying on the expectations on him being a big-time producer.
He also played on a team that appeared to have aworse environment than the 2010-11 Sens.

He doesn't have to be a big time producer to have been a good pick. People are devastated at the possibility of him not being a game breaker.

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11-29-2012, 05:25 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
lol wut?

and IDK, but how can people say Silfverberg will be amazing with 9 points and Zinbanejad will be a bust with 7 points.....

sometimes i just don't understand. these guys are going through a big change and it takes time, just relax. Think less right now in terms of points.
The microscope has been closed on Zibanejad and the longer he goes without showing game breaking ability in the AHL the longer people will act like he's an utter failure.

There's no middle ground, there's no "hey, decent pick".

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11-29-2012, 05:28 PM
  #665
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I think most Sens fans wanted Couturier as our pick approached and he was still available but once we drafted Zbad a lot of fans did an about face and said they wanted Zbad. Would be interesting to see the draft thread.

Either way he is ours so here's hoping he continues to improve and reaches his full potential.

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11-29-2012, 05:30 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I think he's looking more like a top 9 forward than a top 3 forward..
We'll be looking nice if Zibanejad is a 7-9 forward on our roster in a couple years. But like I said earlier, I think he could be that right now. If you put him in a spot where he isn't pressured to produce, at 19, in the NHL, I think he'd prove to be a very serviceable player right now.

Moreover, he's got offensive upside. Whether or not he makes use of it, time will tell.

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11-29-2012, 05:35 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
If you guys want to get your jimmies all rustled, be my guest. The fact is that guys that score, score at every level their whole way up the pro ladder.
Milan Lucic scored 19 points in his draft year but was picked in the 2nd round because the Bruins thought he had a chance to be the player he is today. Now that was awesome scouting, and a bit of good fortune. Yes, he went on to score after this, but the fact of the matter is, they took him before he scored. And it was juniors anyways, where it seemslike every 19 year old is a point per game. Would Milan Lucic have lit up the SEL and AHL at 18/19. Serious doubts. Why didn't he light up the NHL at 20? He had to figure it out.

It's not always as simple as scouting from hockeydb. Though sometimes it can.

But you're kinda acting like he hasn't done anything and hasn't created any chances.

Is anyone worried that he isn't gonna play in the league a while if he stays healthy? I think you're out of your mind if anyone's worrying about this player "busting" in the real sense of the word.


Last edited by Minister of Offence: 11-29-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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11-29-2012, 06:08 PM
  #668
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I never said he was a bust. I never said he wouldn't be a good NHL player.

I said he can't finish, and he can't. The "natural touch" or whatever you want to call it...he doesn't have it.

Sure he could be one of the few guys that puts it together offensively at the NHL level, but anyone that thinks that is the norm is seriously delusional. It's easy to find a guy that is doing well now and look backwards.

I also have not proclaimed my opinion to be fact.

The whole point of mentioning Kadri was to demonstrate how prospectitis works.

Zbad is ours, we want him to succeed, so we see what we want to see.

I am not writing him off at all. I'll actually be very pleased if he develops into a more physical Chris Kelly.

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11-29-2012, 06:12 PM
  #669
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I never said he was a bust. I never said he wouldn't be a good NHL player.

I said he can't finish, and he can't. The "natural touch" or whatever you want to call it...he doesn't have it.
There's very few scorers in the league that are "naturals". Some guys don't naturally skate well, they learned. Some guys weren't naturally built strong, they trained. Most guys wouldn't have been even close to the NHL without work ethic. Matt Puempel's a natural goal scorer, he's still in junior, but trust me, he's a natural at goal scoring. That kid's got lots of work before he's ready for the NHL to play, or to score goals. He's also not far removed from being on everyone's **** list and being put into any trade proposal anyone can think of.

Do you see why I keep preaching that he's 19 and you need to let things play out. It could go either way, but the downside isn't anything to be afraid of (that's not for you, that's just a general comment). Wait til he's 23... you might be surprised at what comes of it. If he doesn't surprise you, he'll probably still be a good player.

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11-29-2012, 06:43 PM
  #670
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If you don't think Mika ever dominated, look at his SEL games during his first year which is essentially what bolstered his way to the 6th position. He was tearing the league apart for his age and ice-time. Dangling guys like Larsson and hitting more experienced guys over the board like it was nothing. He definitely has top 6 skill and even top 3. He'll be fine.

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11-29-2012, 06:47 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
If you don't think Mika ever dominated, look at his SEL games during his first year which is essentially what bolstered his way to the 6th position. He was tearing the league apart for his age and ice-time. Dangling guys like Larsson and hitting more experienced guys over the board like it was nothing. He definitely has top 6 skill and even top 3. He'll be fine.
wasn't he on pace to outperform silfverberg (our other bust swede) at the same age?

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11-29-2012, 06:50 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
For anyone who thinks differently, according to Tim Murray on 1200 it was Zibanejad's decision to stay with his teammates in bingo.

The real deal just got realer.
Commitment. That is what it takes.

If you listen to it again, it would seem more like camp Ziba asked Tim what he thought he was gonna do, and Tim said "in an ideal world, we'd want him to stay in North America". (Paraphrasing).

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11-29-2012, 06:53 PM
  #673
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I think that Milan Michalek and Mike Fisher are good analogues for Zibanejad - his playing style has some similarities between a mix of those two players. Both are physical specimens with a boatload of talent that is raw and both are productive NHLers... That being said both had more raw talent than their numbers and play suggests because they were each missing some hockey sense.

When i watch zibanejad I think he has a 70 shot, 60 hands, 70 skating, and 50 hockey sense.

As an example I would judge Turris as 75 shot, 65 hands, 65 skating, 70 hockey sense.

People jumping for the hate-on for Zibanejad should take a look at Turris - a year ago people were calling him a bust and now he looks like a legitimate 2nd line center.

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11-29-2012, 07:04 PM
  #674
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
wasn't he on pace to outperform silfverberg (our other bust swede) at the same age?
Silfverberg is still a project. Don't go counting your chickens before they hatch now.

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11-29-2012, 07:05 PM
  #675
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Not only is Z-Bad a swede, but he's also a bit of a power forward, who themselves are often late bloomers.
Exactly! He's trying to balance his physical dominance with his very skilled offensive tools.

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Where's that gif of the laughing black people when I need it.
Why black people? Looooool, I'm kidding.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1989 View Post
I think that Milan Michalek and Mike Fisher are good analogues for Zibanejad - his playing style has some similarities between a mix of those two players. Both are physical specimens with a boatload of talent that is raw and both are productive NHLers... That being said both had more raw talent than their numbers and play suggests because they were each missing some hockey sense.

When i watch zibanejad I think he has a 70 shot, 60 hands, 70 skating, and 50 hockey sense.

As an example I would judge Turris as 75 shot, 65 hands, 65 skating, 70 hockey sense.

People jumping for the hate-on for Zibanejad should take a look at Turris - a year ago people were calling him a bust and now he looks like a legitimate 2nd line center.
Depends what type of shot you're saying. Zibanejad has a slap-shot better than most NHLers. He can also release the shot with such velocity in tight corners.

The hockey sense is bang on, imo. He has so much tools that he just doesn't know which to do at the proper times for them. Instead of using his speed to the outside and cuts in he shoots. Instead of shooting he hangs on to it too long etc...

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