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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal.

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12-04-2012, 02:55 PM
  #876
Icelevel
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Tim said that Oster was in touch with Swedish federation. Tim then said it was Mika's decision. Oster went back after talking to Mika and asked what Ottawa thought. Tim said "in an ideal world, he'd stay". That might sound like it's Mika's decision, but you know it's really not when the organization says something like that, and that's just an outtake of a conversation between Oster and Murray that could've been more specific.

I'll throw in some quotes from the other side, though:

"Ottawa made this decision and I have to respect that"

"Everyone who's available for the WJC wants to play in the tournament."

"There's not too much for me to control. I have a contract with Ottawa and they decide. I have to respect that and hope they make the best decision for my development. They want me here now and I'm focused on spending Christmas and New Year's in Ottawa."

Don't know why if he expects to get some kind of extended Christmas break from the AHL, though.
sorry steffe, i respect you but you misunderstood the interview. maybe listen to it again?

Tim said that he asked zibanejad's agent (craig oster) what zib wanted to do, oster then told him what him and zib discussed and THEN tim said in an ideal world that is what they would do (implying it was the same thing that oster suggested. which we now know was to stay). UNLESS tim murray is lying.

What this sounds to me like is that zibanejad did not want to go(for whatever reason, or his agent talked him into staying for whatever reason) but management is trying not to come out and say it so zibanejad looks bad. Even though they are happy with the decision and agree.
Tim was trying to be careful about what he said in that interview but eventually he did say that it was zibanejad and his agent's decision.


Last edited by Icelevel: 12-04-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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12-04-2012, 02:59 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I think it's pretty bad that both sides are publicly admitting they aren't really on the same page, whether intentionally or not.
MoO, did you listen to the tim murray interview? what was your take on it?

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12-04-2012, 03:04 PM
  #878
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His defensive game stinks?

I'm pretty sure Holmgren had him on the first PK pairings within a month or so because he thought Sean was bad at defense. I watched 20 or so Flyers games last year and Couturier is very very solid defensively, if he becomes a 60 point player than he will be a Kesler, Jordan Staal (At worst) type of player.
Ottawa fans will forever find flaws in Couturier because we know our team messed up by passing on him.

Disregard anything negative written about him. It's rooted in envy and disappointment.

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12-04-2012, 03:08 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Ottawa fans will forever find flaws in Couturier because we know our team messed up by passing on him.

Disregard anything negative written about him. It's rooted in envy and disappointment.
Couturier is a good player but he dodesn't fit the mold of the team the Sens are trying to build - look at our 1st round choices under Murray - all elite skaters or excellent skaters and can skate all over the ice, not to knock Couturier but Ottawa is building a fast, big attack oriented team - you can't do that if your #1 or #2 Center is slow and heavy footed.

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12-04-2012, 03:09 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
MoO, did you listen to the tim murray interview? what was your take on it?
I did but a couple days ago, so certain things are fuzzy.

It just seems to me like both sides are trying to avoid blame. I believe Mika is telling the truth, whether Ottawa told him or implied to him that they wanted him to stay, I'm sure Mika may have wanted to go but knows quite simply he's to do what his employer told him. His agent may have advised him on this as well.

I'd say Tim wasn't entirely honest, but also not entirely dishonest. But I'm guessing. It may have been up to Mika, but no one in their right mind expects the kid to go against the wishes of the team and I'd say they probably made it clear they'd like him to stay.

I can't blame Ottawa for wanting this. I'd love to see him in the tournament, and maybe I'm bias for kinda seeing it from our management's perspective but I don't think they are wrong in keeping him. I don't think you can lose by keeping him here, and there's little room to second guess in hindsight.

That said, I do believe if he was Canadian he'd be going, and although that point, and its merit, enrages Sweden....what do you expect? The backlash in this country could be severe.

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12-04-2012, 03:11 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
sorry steffe, i respect you but you misunderstood the interview. maybe listen to it again?

Tim said that he asked zibanejad's agent (craig oster) what zib wanted to do, oster then told him what him and zib discussed and THEN tim said in an ideal world that is what they would do.
Yeah that's the way I understood it. One side is being dishonest and I can't really blame them.

How could Zibanejad fathom telling Sweden he just chose not to go, if that was the case?

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12-04-2012, 03:18 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Yeah that's the way I understood it. One side is being dishonest and I can't really blame them.

How could Zibanejad fathom telling Sweden he just chose not to go, if that was the case?
it sounds like that is the case (zib didn't want to go or would just rather stay with his new buddies here and help his team in binghamton). or some variation of that.

Maybe we don't know the whole truth but do we really need to? bottom line is i think it is better for him to stay here and work on his NA game. I might think different if he was leading the team in pts and goals, but he is not.

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12-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
That said, I do believe if he was Canadian he'd be going, and although that point, and its merit, enrages Sweden....what do you expect? The backlash in this country could be severe.

That's a tough argument to make. I mean, in a sense I could see you being right, but that Canadian player would have grown up playing here, having already been adjusted to North American style ice and level of play. Zibanejad is not there yet. Letting a Canadian guy go would be different, albeit a double standard. I don't think the Sens brass is too impressed with how Zibby was dealt with by his SEL team (not the world junior teams fault per say) last year.

Leaving to go play back on international ice for a month, 11 hours ahead does not pass the smell test in that regard. The other factor is the AHL is better hockey than the World Juniors, but the level of intensity won't be the same as a short international tournament would provide.

At the end of the day, I just want NHL hockey back.

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12-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
Couturier is a good player but he dodesn't fit the mold of the team the Sens are trying to build - look at our 1st round choices under Murray - all elite skaters or excellent skaters and can skate all over the ice, not to knock Couturier but Ottawa is building a fast, big attack oriented team - you can't do that if your #1 or #2 Center is slow and heavy footed.
Puempel? Noesen? I don't think either guy was drafted as an Elite or strong skater.

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12-04-2012, 03:41 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
sorry steffe, i respect you but you misunderstood the interview. maybe listen to it again?

Tim said that he asked zibanejad's agent (craig oster) what zib wanted to do, oster then told him what him and zib discussed and THEN tim said in an ideal world that is what they would do (implying it was the same thing that oster suggested. which we now know was to stay). UNLESS tim murray is lying.

What this sounds to me like is that zibanejad did not want to go(for whatever reason, or his agent talked him into staying for whatever reason) but management is trying not to come out and say it so zibanejad looks bad. Even though they are happy with the decision and agree.
Tim was trying to be careful about what he said in that interview but eventually he did say that it was zibanejad and his agent's decision.
That might be the case, but I still believe that Tim would've hinted to Oster what they wanted to do, and Mika just went with it.

Or do you think it is a case of Mika asking Ottawa to cover up for him not wanting to go? That sounds a tad conspiratoric, but not unbelieavable.

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12-04-2012, 03:49 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by EJsens1 View Post
That's a tough argument to make. I mean, in a sense I could see you being right, but that Canadian player would have grown up playing here, having already been adjusted to North American style ice and level of play. Zibanejad is not there yet. Letting a Canadian guy go would be different, albeit a double standard. I don't think the Sens brass is too impressed with how Zibby was dealt with by his SEL team (not the world junior teams fault per say) last year.
The argument is fair, but lets assume for whatever reason the Sens still would have liked this prospect not to go the WJC to play for Canada. For whatever reason. I think the pressure to let him go is immense and I can see how people from Sweden could reasonably think that a Canadian player would get a different treatment. Whether or not it's true or not I don't know, but given the emotion and whatnot I don't think it's crazy or silly of them. They might be right, but I don't think it has anything to do with the Canadian team sabotaging Sweden or helping Canada, and that also may be a belief widely held among Swedish hockey followers. I don't agree with that at all.

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12-04-2012, 03:50 PM
  #887
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I think Tim's just trying to downplay the situation. I don't think Zibanejad's agent would have approached the org asking if they'd release Zibby if Zibanejad didn't want to go.

Sweden's backlash is expected, and I think warranted (although I don't think the Canadian bias/conspiracy is correct). Really, a month away from the AHL is probably not going to ruin his development or ruin his acclimatization to smaller ice. At most, it'd be a small hurdle. At best, he comes back with renewed energy and confidence. Most likely, he'd go have a good tourny, and then take a week or so to get adjusted back to where he was before he left.

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12-04-2012, 04:00 PM
  #888
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The rules need to be changed in order for these kind of things to not even come up. If a player is playing professional hockey anywhere in the world (getting paid to play) then they should be excluded from playing in the WJC. The tournament should be for junior players only.

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12-04-2012, 04:02 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
The argument is fair, but lets assume for whatever reason the Sens still would have liked this prospect not to go the WJC to play for Canada. For whatever reason. I think the pressure to let him go is immense and I can see how people from Sweden could reasonably think that a Canadian player would get a different treatment. Whether or not it's true or not I don't know, but given the emotion and whatnot I don't think it's crazy or silly of them. They might be right, but I don't think it has anything to do with the Canadian team sabotaging Sweden or helping Canada, and that also may be a belief widely held among Swedish hockey followers. I don't agree with that at all.
Like the Murray's care about that. Funny though, they didn't seem to hate them 2 years ago when the Senators released Lehner from Bingo to go be their goalie.

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12-04-2012, 04:19 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
The rules need to be changed in order for these kind of things to not even come up. If a player is playing professional hockey anywhere in the world (getting paid to play) then they should be excluded from playing in the WJC. The tournament should be for junior players only.
The only countries that would be happy with that are Canada and the US, where junior clubs are clearly independent of the professional leagues. In Europe, junior clubs are directly affiliated with pro organizations.

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12-04-2012, 04:55 PM
  #891
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The rules need to be changed in order for these kind of things to not even come up. If a player is playing professional hockey anywhere in the world (getting paid to play) then they should be excluded from playing in the WJC. The tournament should be for junior players only.
This, absolutely this.

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12-04-2012, 05:00 PM
  #892
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The only countries that would be happy with that are Canada and the US, where junior clubs are clearly independent of the professional leagues. In Europe, junior clubs are directly affiliated with pro organizations.
The clubs in the CHL are far from independent of the NHL, they are in fact in bed together, just as is Hockey Canada.

I am not familiar with the US program, but I would be very surprised if the NHL has no involvement.

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12-04-2012, 05:29 PM
  #893
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Swedes get paid (to various degrees) from age of 16, something like that would not work in this day and age unless you want to play USA vs. Canada every game of the tournament, where amateur vs. pro status is more separated.

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12-04-2012, 06:16 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
Couturier is a good player but he dodesn't fit the mold of the team the Sens are trying to build - look at our 1st round choices under Murray - all elite skaters or excellent skaters and can skate all over the ice, not to knock Couturier but Ottawa is building a fast, big attack oriented team - you can't do that if your #1 or #2 Center is slow and heavy footed.
What?

Our #1 Center is Jason Spezza. His skating was knocked heavily for a long, long time.

We should have picked Couturier, and we didn't. Hopefully Zibanejad will be as good, or better, but I doubt he will be.

Couturier has already had success in the NHL. He will improve as he matures. He'll be a #1C right around the time that Spezza is on the decline.

It was a bad decision.

Zibanejad won't even be the best player we got in that round.

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12-04-2012, 06:17 PM
  #895
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Yes, the Ottawa Senators have heard from the Swedish hockey federation, requesting Mika Zibanejad’s presence at a certain world junior tournament in Russia.

But, no, the Senators are still not inclined to let Ziba go.

“I have talked to the federation in Sweden and suggested we would talk again,” Murray said, in an email to the Citizen Tuesday evening. “Our interest is for Mika and his development and we think he is best served here.

“He has had a tough adjustment (to the AHL) and a month away will be like starting over upon his return. We will talk further but as of now he will stay here.”
http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/mu...zibanejad-call

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12-04-2012, 06:21 PM
  #896
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Careful steffeG.

This is a very "pro Murray" board.

There is not much room for "sense" or reality here.

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12-04-2012, 06:31 PM
  #897
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Careful steffeG.

This is a very "pro Murray" board.

There is not much room for "sense" or reality here.
I am pro Murray regime. They've been drafting very well overall, and hopeful and confident they'll improve the team further.

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12-04-2012, 06:33 PM
  #898
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What?

Our #1 Center is Jason Spezza. His skating was knocked heavily for a long, long time.

We should have picked Couturier, and we didn't. Hopefully Zibanejad will be as good, or better, but I doubt he will be.

Couturier has already had success in the NHL. He will improve as he matures. He'll be a #1C right around the time that Spezza is on the decline.

It was a bad decision.

Zibanejad won't even be the best player we got in that round.
From everywhere i've read Cout's had an attitude problem. Heres what that means to me:

When you draft a player you have to consider long term implications as well. Cout's might be the better player but was he going to want to play in Ottawa long term? Philly offers numerous things:
- Big city that a Canadian kid would want to experience
- Competetive team with cup chances
- Cap team that can spend
- American tax rates

Lets say your Murray and you know Couts is the better player but you also know that he may pull a Heatley/Eli Manning/Lindros/list goes on and on, and decide he doesn't want to play on your team in 5 years. But you can draft this other kid who has a better chance of playing on your team long term but may not be as good. You take the other guy. Notice how Winnipeg, a city similiar to Ottawa, also passed on Cout's? Its not a coincidence.

Everyone knew he was the better player, but you have to take other factors into consideration. Mika may not be as good but what good is a player that wants to be traded in 5 years?

Thats my take on the whole thing.

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12-04-2012, 06:42 PM
  #899
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From everywhere i've read Cout's had an attitude problem. Heres what that means to me:

When you draft a player you have to consider long term implications as well. Cout's might be the better player but was he going to want to play in Ottawa long term? Philly offers numerous things:
- Big city that a Canadian kid would want to experience
- Competetive team with cup chances
- Cap team that can spend
- American tax rates

Lets say your Murray and you know Couts is the better player but you also know that he may pull a Heatley/Eli Manning/Lindros/list goes on and on, and decide he doesn't want to play on your team in 5 years. But you can draft this other kid who has a better chance of playing on your team long term but may not be as good. You take the other guy. Notice how Winnipeg, a city similiar to Ottawa, also passed on Cout's? Its not a coincidence.

Everyone knew he was the better player, but you have to take other factors into consideration. Mika may not be as good but what good is a player that wants to be traded in 5 years?

Thats my take on the whole thing.
I don't buy into that stuff. For one, he would have to play for more then five years to reach UFA status, and very rarely do young guys like that demand out of a city. Heatley, due to obvious reasons, Blake Wheeler, due to a CBA loophole, Kessel, due to contract and team, Justin Schultz due to a CBA loophole. I can't think of any other guys recently.

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12-04-2012, 07:32 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
The clubs in the CHL are far from independent of the NHL, they are in fact in bed together, just as is Hockey Canada.

I am not familiar with the US program, but I would be very surprised if the NHL has no involvement.
My point was more or less that the CHL is an amateur only league, whereas many European junior leagues include salaried players courtesy the direct club affiliations.

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