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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal.

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:19 AM
  #951
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Originally Posted by ATdaisuki View Post
we have a hockey player with no finish, so he will be at least as good as condra.
perhaps less stamina
Sweet. The guy we took 6th overall will be as good as a guy we took 211th overall.

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12-05-2012, 10:42 AM
  #952
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If we get 30-40 points out of Zibanejad, we're lucky. He's a 3rd line grinder all the way.

The Swedish Foligno. (with less offense)

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12-05-2012, 10:44 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
If we get 30-40 points out of Zibanejad, we're lucky. He's 3rd line grinder all the way.

The Swedish Foligno.
Do you think it's better to be over optimistic or better to be the opposite?

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12-05-2012, 10:46 AM
  #954
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It's not BS. Couturier will likely continue to do what he has been doing. ie: produce in the NHL.

Your laundry list of excuses for Zibanejad's non production at every level to date is meaningless.
We didn't take Couturirer because management didn't like his compete level. They felt that he doesn't step up his game come playoff time or in big game scenarios.

The same reason Winnipeg didn't take him.

The only reason Philly took him is because they had minutes to decide (as they acquired the pick during the draft).

Give Mika some time. Our scouts clearly see something in him that you/a lot of people on the boards dont.

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12-05-2012, 11:04 AM
  #955
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There are a lot of kool-aid drinkers that post here. Nothing the team does is ever wrong, and anyone that questions them is.

All of our prospects can't miss, until they do.

Regardless, my position is based on evidence. Not wishful thinking. People preparing to serve crow are convinced that the management can do no wrong.

That's how it is around here.

Forget about Couturier. The projections I'm seeing for Zibanejad are just far fetched at best. What are they based on? Prospectitis and wishful thinking perhaps.
John nobody is drinking anyone's kool-aid, some people are being optimistic, some pessimistic, other are taking a practical approach realizing Zib is a 19 year old kid that possesses raw talent and skills that can be developed, but not necessarily taught.

Attempts to use comparisons to evaluate one prospect vs another at this point really mean little. For a player like Zib, it is likely going to take a little more time.

As I see it, the main thing holding him back is a lack of understanding how to attack offensively on the smaller ice surface, how to use his linemates more effectively. This will take time, but Zib is an intelligent young man and the odds are he will figure it out sooner than later.

The rest of his game is NHL ready if the Sens want a 3/4rd line center and PK specialist. I don't believe that to be the case, they want to develop him to be a top six impact player and will take the time to maximize his potential, even if it means a year in the AHL.

Drafting and developing players is not a for those into immediate gratification, it generally takes time.

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12-05-2012, 11:05 AM
  #956
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I think it's better to be realistic.

I'm all for seeing what we've got with Zibanejad. If you guys want to ride the prospect roller coaster over and over again, feel free.

We all know how the ride usually ends.

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12-05-2012, 11:10 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
I think it's better to be realistic.

I'm all for seeing what we've got with Zibanejad. If you guys want to ride the prospect roller coaster over and over again, feel free.

We all know how the ride usually ends.
Like this?


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12-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
John nobody is drinking anyone's kool-aid, some people are being optimistic, some pessimistic, other are taking a practical approach realizing Zib is a 19 year old kid that possesses raw talent and skills that can be developed, but not necessarily taught.

Attempts to use comparisons to evaluate one prospect vs another at this point really mean little. For a player like Zib, it is likely going to take a little more time.

As I see it, the main thing holding him back is a lack of understanding how to attack offensively on the smaller ice surface, how to use his linemates more effectively. This will take time, but Zib is an intelligent young man and the odds are he will figure it out sooner than later.

The rest of his game is NHL ready if the Sens want a 3/4rd line center and PK specialist. I don't believe that to be the case, they want to develop him to be a top six impact player and will take the time to maximize his potential, even if it means a year in the AHL.

Drafting and developing players is not a for those into immediate gratification, it generally takes time.
This x 1000.

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12-05-2012, 11:19 AM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
John nobody is drinking anyone's kool-aid, some people are being optimistic, some pessimistic, other are taking a practical approach realizing Zib is a 19 year old kid that possesses raw talent and skills that can be developed, but not necessarily taught.

Attempts to use comparisons to evaluate one prospect vs another at this point really mean little. For a player like Zib, it is likely going to take a little more time.

As I see it, the main thing holding him back is a lack of understanding how to attack offensively on the smaller ice surface, how to use his linemates more effectively. This will take time, but Zib is an intelligent young man and the odds are he will figure it out sooner than later.

The rest of his game is NHL ready if the Sens want a 3/4rd line center and PK specialist. I don't believe that to be the case, they want to develop him to be a top six impact player and will take the time to maximize his potential, even if it means a year in the AHL.

Drafting and developing players is not a for those into immediate gratification, it generally takes time.
With high skill guys, you almost always see it right away. Sure they take time to adjust to each level as they progress, but they almost always have a track record established.

Where is that in this case?

I just think the projections are way off.

I'm not saying that he won't ever put it together. He might. He's young, he's raw, etc. I know people like to pump up prospects. That's what fans do. It just wears a little thin when people make things up to justify their beliefs.

Lots of teams passed on Couturier, and every one of them is going to regret it, outside of the top 3.

You'd think Ottawa fans would learn, but we just can't seem to help ourselves from creating unreal and perhaps unattainable expectations for our young players.

Every year it's the same thing. Foligno is going to break out. Filatov will score 30 playing with Spezza. Butler will score 30 playing with Spezza. Regin is going to be the 2nd line C and score 50 points.

It gets old.

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12-05-2012, 11:20 AM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
John nobody is drinking anyone's kool-aid, some people are being optimistic, some pessimistic, other are taking a practical approach realizing Zib is a 19 year old kid that possesses raw talent and skills that can be developed, but not necessarily taught.

Attempts to use comparisons to evaluate one prospect vs another at this point really mean little. For a player like Zib, it is likely going to take a little more time.

As I see it, the main thing holding him back is a lack of understanding how to attack offensively on the smaller ice surface, how to use his linemates more effectively. This will take time, but Zib is an intelligent young man and the odds are he will figure it out sooner than later.

The rest of his game is NHL ready if the Sens want a 3/4rd line center and PK specialist. I don't believe that to be the case, they want to develop him to be a top six impact player and will take the time to maximize his potential, even if it means a year in the AHL.

Drafting and developing players is not a for those into immediate gratification, it generally takes time.
Basically the Murray's draft record is what confuses fans - they have had so much success that we naturally believe they made the right choice at #6 with Zibby - (Swedish, High Pick, Solid NHL projections) - The Sens have admitted Zibby didn't have the best attitude last year in Sweden and floated and it is no secret that he has struggled in Bingo - but that doesn't mean he still can't be a sweet #2 Center/Winger.

The Sens are coddling him right now, keeping him from the WJC to me is a sign they are being overprotective with him and that they are extremely concerned about his progress since they drafted him.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:22 AM
  #961
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Besides, he would be a Blue Jacket right now if Nash would have amended his list.

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12-05-2012, 11:26 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Besides, he would be a Blue Jacket right now if Nash would have amended his list.
John you don't know that for certain, however should your assumption be correct, then another set of scouts and GM would have seen a lot of value in Zib.

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12-05-2012, 11:28 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
Basically the Murray's draft record is what confuses fans - they have had so much success that we naturally believe they made the right choice at #6 with Zibby - (Swedish, High Pick, Solid NHL projections) - The Sens have admitted Zibby didn't have the best attitude last year in Sweden and floated and it is no secret that he has struggled in Bingo - but that doesn't mean he still can't be a sweet #2 Center/Winger.

The Sens are coddling him right now, keeping him from the WJC to me is a sign they are being overprotective with him and that they are extremely concerned about his progress since they drafted him.
I don't believe they are coddling him at all, I do think they probably regret their decision to send him back to Sweden last year.

Murray probably wishes he'd listen to Paul M, who wanted to keep him in Ottawa.


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12-05-2012, 11:30 AM
  #964
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Or they saw value in unloading an $8 Million per year contract.

I don't think there is any doubt that Zibanejad has the tools and the raw skill to play in the NHL.

He will make it. It's his role / ceiling that we are arguing about here.

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12-05-2012, 11:39 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Or they saw value in unloading an $8 Million per year contract.

I don't think there is any doubt that Zibanejad has the tools and the raw skill to play in the NHL.

He will make it. It's his role / ceiling that we are arguing about here.
You are obviously a glass half-full kind of person.

I am not arguing about anything, personally I have no idea what his ceiling is, too early to predict.

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12-05-2012, 11:42 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I don't believe they are coddling him at all, I do think they probably regret their decision to send him back to Sweden last year.

Murray probably wishes he'd listen to Paul M, who wanted to keep him in Ottawa.
If he can barely skate 2 consistent shifts in the AHL - no way he makes a NHL playoff team. Zibby is not NHL ready, nothing wrong with that, he just isn't.

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12-05-2012, 11:46 AM
  #967
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Exactly it is too early, I think the biggest thing that stopped him from developing last year was that he definitely had a concussion in Sweden and for sure did not play in the AHL at the end of the season although he was here because of on going concussion "like" symptoms.

Which if you ask a doctor, if you have x amount of symptoms you just have one.

I personally will say call last year a write off and hopefully he can get back on track.

Also there's plenty of misses at 6 if we even get a 2-3 line tweener out of him then by all means it was a success IMO it's not like we had first overall.

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12-05-2012, 11:48 AM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I don't believe they are coddling him at all, I do think they probably regret their decision to send him back to Sweden last year.

Murray probably wishes he'd listen to Paul M, who wanted to keep him in Ottawa.
Zibby is more likely to hit his peak later than sooner. By sending him back we saved a year on his ELC. Even if he did not develop his game that well, he would have matured more physically.

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12-05-2012, 11:48 AM
  #969
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If he can barely skate 2 consistent shifts in the AHL - no way he makes a NHL playoff team. Zibby is not NHL ready, nothing wrong with that, he just isn't.
Not sure what games you have been watching, but with that comment it appears its not Binghamton.

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12-05-2012, 11:48 AM
  #970
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Originally Posted by benjiv1 View Post
The only reason Philly took him is because they had minutes to decide (as they acquired the pick during the draft).
It's not like scouts and management spend the entire year compiling reports on 300 prospects and spend hours and hours to rank them and be ready for any scenario.

Quote:
Give Mika some time. Our scouts clearly see something in him that you/a lot of people on the boards dont.
They saw something. They don't necessarily like him as much anymore.

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12-05-2012, 11:53 AM
  #971
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Zibby is more likely to hit his peak later than sooner. By sending him back we saved a year on his ELC. Even if he did not develop his game that well, he would have matured more physically.
ELC means nothing unless a player's development curve suggests a potentially large second contract.

Using the benefit of hindsight, I believe the Sens wouldn't have sent him back to Sweden last year.

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12-05-2012, 11:54 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
John nobody is drinking anyone's kool-aid, some people are being optimistic, some pessimistic, other are taking a practical approach realizing Zib is a 19 year old kid that possesses raw talent and skills that can be developed, but not necessarily taught.

Attempts to use comparisons to evaluate one prospect vs another at this point really mean little. For a player like Zib, it is likely going to take a little more time.

As I see it, the main thing holding him back is a lack of understanding how to attack offensively on the smaller ice surface, how to use his linemates more effectively. This will take time, but Zib is an intelligent young man and the odds are he will figure it out sooner than later.

The rest of his game is NHL ready if the Sens want a 3/4rd line center and PK specialist. I don't believe that to be the case, they want to develop him to be a top six impact player and will take the time to maximize his potential, even if it means a year in the AHL.

Drafting and developing players is not a for those into immediate gratification, it generally takes time.
Force him to watch tape of Bertuzzi during the West Coast Express days. If he learns that one hand on stick, lower the shoulder, power move to the net he'll be effective. Right now he's taking too many weak wrist shots from the blueline when he has half a step on the defenseman on the outside.

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12-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #973
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rundblad's biggest problem as far as i could tell was commitment. I think i see a bit of that same sort of attitude in zibanejad.
Once he really gets serious about improving and succeeding as an ottawa senator things should fall into place.
i don't think he is there(fully committed) yet. Imagine if he had the work ethic of boro?
A lehner type of turnaround would put the couturier talk to rest imo.

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12-05-2012, 12:04 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Not sure what games you have been watching, but with that comment it appears its not Binghamton.
He can be impressive no doubt, but he is behind Silf, Hoffman, Stone, De Costa, Prince on the depth chart to the NHL - and if you include Noessen and Puempel he may be even further.

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12-05-2012, 12:06 PM
  #975
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It's not like scouts and management spend the entire year compiling reports on 300 prospects and spend hours and hours to rank them and be ready for any scenario.
You can be pretty sure they do spend hours and hours compiling scouting reports on the players. As the year progresses and a team's draft position becomes more certain, I can assure you their list contains comprehensive information on every player they consider potentially available to them.

Quote:
They saw something. They don't necessarily like him as much anymore.
They don't necessarily like him any less either. While it very likely they aren't thrilled with what happened with Zib last season, I'm not sure that translates into any unhappiness in the player himself.

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