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1968 Norris trophy

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Old
09-16-2011, 11:08 PM
  #26
JaysCyYoung
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The third closest season that a Leaf defenceman was to winning a Norris Trophy in the history of the award... Carl Brewer's 1962-63 campaign and Salming's 1976-77 season are the only other ones that were closer.

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09-17-2011, 01:35 AM
  #27
Rhiessan71
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung View Post
The third closest season that a Leaf defenceman was to winning a Norris Trophy in the history of the award... Carl Brewer's 1962-63 campaign and Salming's 1976-77 season are the only other ones that were closer.

Errr....ok.

But...Salming finished 2nd in '80 and in '77.
And...Horton also finished 2nd twice, '64 and '69.

So Horton coming in 3rd in '68 was actually the 6th highest finish by a Laff's d-man for the Norris.

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09-17-2011, 11:13 AM
  #28
JaysCyYoung
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Nope. Look at the voting, dude:

1962-63: Brewer 17 points behind leader.
1976-77: Salming 29 points behind leader.
1967-68: Horton 38 points behind leader.
1963-64: Horton 68 points behind leader.
1979-80: Salming 122 points behind leader.
1968-69: Horton 128 points behind leader.

You're looking at actual placement rather than voting shares, which are a more important indication of proximity.

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09-17-2011, 11:32 AM
  #29
RabbinsDuck
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I had not realized a Leaf never won the Norris.

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09-17-2011, 11:51 AM
  #30
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I wonder how much the, 'wow factor' played in Norris voting.

Obviously not as much as the split-season voting format, but you also have to remember that the hockey world at that time had never seen anything like Orr before. Just the sheer awe of seeing someone reinvent the game may have made number of games irrelevant in some minds.

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09-17-2011, 12:08 PM
  #31
Rhiessan71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung View Post
Nope. Look at the voting, dude:

1962-63: Brewer 17 points behind leader.
1976-77: Salming 29 points behind leader.
1967-68: Horton 38 points behind leader.
1963-64: Horton 68 points behind leader.
1979-80: Salming 122 points behind leader.
1968-69: Horton 128 points behind leader.

You're looking at actual placement rather than voting shares, which are a more important indication of proximity.
C'mon dude, it doesn't matter how many shares a player got if he still had another player to beat to even get second place.

A bronze medal is still just a bronze medal, no matter how high you scored.

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09-17-2011, 12:46 PM
  #32
JaysCyYoung
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We're not going to agree on this so let's just end it there. Regardless, it's pretty amazing that they actually used split season voting for as long as they did. What a bizarre method.

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09-17-2011, 01:12 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung View Post
We're not going to agree on this so let's just end it there. Regardless, it's pretty amazing that they actually used split season voting for as long as they did. What a bizarre method.
Nope, definitely not, second is still closer to first than third, no matter the score.
Yeah, the split season voting was....interesting to say the least.

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09-18-2011, 01:49 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
No one else stepped-up. The usual Norris contenders all played more games but did not have typical seasons, some slumped quite a bit. The Norris was not going to be awarded to a Mike McMahon or a support level dman like a Ted Green, Gary Bergman or Pat Stapleton.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

Furthermore in the 46 games he played, Bobby Orr managed to impress the voters in all the expansion cities more than the slumping defencemen from the old teams.
Fully agree it was a combination of Orr being that good in those 46 games and the rest of the field not being very good at all.

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09-18-2011, 01:51 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
I had not realized a Leaf never won the Norris.
Kinda begs the question of which will the leafs win first, a Norris or another SC?

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09-18-2011, 01:54 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
Interesting, but how did he get 12 votes in the second half? He played what, 9 games?
That probably goes to telling how impressed some voters were with the "wow" factor, they is no way 9 games should have gotten him 9 votes, not in 1968.

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09-18-2011, 02:02 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
It wasn't about the points with Orr.
The guy flat out dominated games from one end to the other and if he wanted the puck, there wasn't a whole lot you could do about it.
Let's not let the facts get in the way of reality here.

Orr had 31 points in 46 games, hardly dominating the league in that season, maybe a weak defensive competition yes but total domination would start the following year in 69 (signs of it) and really explode in 70.

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09-18-2011, 07:10 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Let's not let the facts get in the way of reality here.

Orr had 31 points in 46 games, hardly dominating the league in that season, maybe a weak defensive competition yes but total domination would start the following year in 69 (signs of it) and really explode in 70.
Just because he wasn't piling up the points yet doesn't mean he didn't dominate the game when he was on the ice.
His finished second in +/- with +30 despite only playing 46 games.
His D partner Dallas Smith finished first with +33 and played 74 games.
Yes, +/- is a pretty liberal stat but at the same time you don't finish second in half the games without doing something of note during that time.

  1. Dallas Smith BOS 1967-1968 D 74 4 23 27 +33
  2. Bobby Orr BOS 1967-1968 D 46 11 20 31 +30
  3. Jim Neilson NYR 1967-1968 D 67 6 29 35 +29
  4. Gilles Tremblay MTL 1967-1968 L 71 23 28 51 +28
  5. Jean Tremblay MTL 1967-1968 D 73 4 26 30 +28
  6. Jean Beliveau MTL 1967-1968 C 59 31 37 68 +27
  7. Jean Ratelle NYR 1967-1968 C 74 32 46 78 +23
  8. Jacques Laperriere MTL 1967-1968 D 72 4 21 25 +23
  9. Ted Harris MTL 1967-1968 D 67 5 16 21 +23


Or do I have to use your own Lidstrom arguments about controlling the game without generating a ton of points, against you on this?


Last edited by Rhiessan71: 09-18-2011 at 07:27 AM.
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Old
09-18-2011, 03:18 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Let's not let the facts get in the way of reality here.

Orr had 31 points in 46 games, hardly dominating the league in that season, maybe a weak defensive competition yes but total domination would start the following year in 69 (signs of it) and really explode in 70.
You are aware that Orr got 29 first place votes for the hart trophy that year right?

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