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2011 Capitals Roster Speculation, Thoughts, & Expectations (Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap)

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Old
11-13-2011, 11:29 AM
  #776
Mothra
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Hello Mothra, long time.

I think most people agree with the bolded part. Even Tex. Do you feel that many people think otherwise?

It would be pretty hard to disagree with you. Apples to apples comparisons show Bruce hasnt gotten beyond round 2 in the NHL playoffs, ever. There are what....at least a dozen coaches in the league now who have (I havent checked, but at quick glance it's maybe 15 or so)? Bruce hasnt accomplished -- in the playoffs-- what almost half the league's coaches have.

So for sure, thats a blight.
Actually I do...I think some posters have gotten so ingrained in their arguements on the topic that they bring up BB coaching at every turn.....They try to argue against knuckleheads that say he is a moron, doesnt know anything, or whatever.....to such a point that they themselves are as being foolish. Same thing can be said for the discussions of 55/52. Its why I feel like I need to state, in every single post on these subjects, that I dont think any of them stink....and even then people try to shoehorn you in as a "hater"

so yea....IMO there are defenders of these guys that are almost as fanatical as the jabronies who just make stuff up to try to support a point.

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11-13-2011, 11:42 AM
  #777
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i recognize that the caps have not won a cup. i recognize that boudreau has not gotten it done. thats obvious. recognizing that and saying they lost because he is an inadequate coach are two different things. right?

do you think the caps have lost a cup they should have won? i freely agree they have been upset when they shouldnt have been. i am not nearly so sure they have missed out on a sure fire cup because of a bad coach.

i thought it was time to get a fresh coach because of the number of failures they have had and mostly just that. ive said this several times.

that said, i look at julien and see a coach that has been more of a failure than boudreau and see a cup ring on his finger after all of that. i see in boudreau a coach that has gotten it done at an elite level at everything except stanley cup playoffs. for instance, many say the guy gets carried by talent specifically ovechkin, backstrom and green. yet, last season they first first and won a first round series in 5 games when his stars all had their worst seasons far below their career averages. at the same time he did it with a bunch of rookies in primary roles. it was johansson rather than backstrom vs the rangers.

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11-13-2011, 11:47 AM
  #778
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this to me is one if the biggest difference between Poile and McPhee. Poile would have done some "hockey trades"...55/52/28 etc would be gone. Not ALL of them, but certainly some of them.

Trades that oddly enough a team like the Sharks did this past off-season.

It's an old argument of mine, that GMGM is too comfortable with his players/coaches. He waited too long to fire Hanlon, and he holds onto his players too long (should have traded Fehr a long time ago, back when he had some real value, but hindsight is 20/20 obv). He's probably now held onto Boudreau for a season or so too long.

Now I'm not stating McPhee is a bad GM or what have you, but that I see one of his "flaws" is a loyalty to his previous choices. He picks something (draft choice, FA, coach), he holds onto it past the point of no return--highest values-- IMO.

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11-13-2011, 02:46 PM
  #779
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More like one or two would be gone because the budget couldn't afford it. Poile would have moved one or two of them for futures.

The team, as it is constructed now, is definitely working through some kinks and probably flawed. But moving any or all of the parts that have been suggested aren't going to get NHL ready value back. they're going to have to do like the Flyers did, and take a few steps back to go forward.

I really doubt McPhee is ready to move to that point until it's final that the team won't succeed.

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11-13-2011, 03:14 PM
  #780
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i dont think there is any evidence that we have any idea what poile would be like if able to spend to the salary cap. he wheels and deals to keep a team on the ice. if he has the money, vokoun is probably still there. if he trades suter or weber, it wont be because he didnt want to keep them.

as for being comfortable with his coaches....how many head coaches has poile had in nashville?

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11-13-2011, 04:31 PM
  #781
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i recognize that the caps have not won a cup. i recognize that boudreau has not gotten it done. thats obvious. recognizing that and saying they lost because he is an inadequate coach are two different things. right?
You know my take....I dont think he has been able to counter what other teams do to counter his teams strength. Thats not to say he never will...just that he hasnt.

I look back on the Montreal series and his comments after blowing a 3-1 series lead. He said he would have bet the against losing 3 straight or only scoring 1 PP goal for the series....or something very close to that. Seeing how he did practically nothing until game 7 (and that was just benching Fleishmann) I see a coach that had no answers and just kept trying the same thing over and over. He spent the entire next season with 8 on the point...not changing a thing. I know, you disagree and feel he needs to be on the point.....well....he doesnt

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do you think the caps have lost a cup they should have won? i freely agree they have been upset when they shouldnt have been. i am not nearly so sure they have missed out on a sure fire cup because of a bad coach.
no I dont...in fact I was scoffed at by many (including you) for saying they were not as good as their record the Prez cup season

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that said, i look at julien and see a coach that has been more of a failure than boudreau and see a cup ring on his finger after all of that.
explain how he is more a failure (not counting Cup)...I say its pretty equal....and in the end, he was fired from jobs at least twice if memory serves

as always...im not saying BB sucks, stinks, cant coach, is an idiot, or whatever words people will try to put in my mouth

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11-15-2011, 01:30 PM
  #782
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Tim Gleason at the deadline? anyone?

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11-15-2011, 01:35 PM
  #783
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Think he and Ovy can make peace?

He's exactly the type of player McPhee covets and the type we'll need since we can't stay healthy on the blueline...

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11-15-2011, 01:37 PM
  #784
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Gleason's a no-brainer at the deadline if the price is right. He's also a really solid plan 'b' to Suter in the off-season. And I have no doubt he and Ovie can make peace. They're professionals.

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11-15-2011, 01:46 PM
  #785
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Along with needing an upgrade at LD, I'm also thinking that the Caps need another top-6 forward. Semin is having about the worst stretch of his career, and Knuble's been relegated to the 4th line.

Obviously, someone like Shane Doan would be ideal, but I'm not sure GMGM would give up the assets necessary to get him.

Ray Whitney might be a clever acquisition, and shouldn't cost too much. Koivu as well, if the Ducks continue to flounder

Of course, all of this discussion is academic if GMGM can't send out some salary. Hamrlik and Schultz seem like obvious candidates, but I could actually see Semin in play as well.

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11-15-2011, 01:49 PM
  #786
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i am not sure that i see gleason as just the type of player mcphee covets. ive not really seen much evidence that mcphee has even attempted to acquire this type of player.

as a deadline rental i could see it for his playoff experience and leadership. my guess is that mcphee would want another puck mover if he had the choice.

@nbtw: you see any sign that mcphee would seriously do what it would take to get suter?
btw...i am not sure that knuble has been relegated to the 4th line. i could be totally wrong, but it seems more to me like boudreau is interested in seeing what brouwer brings to ovechkin. last season knuble was off the first pp unit more than on it til march and then come playoffs he was right there doing his thing.

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11-15-2011, 01:51 PM
  #787
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A case could also be made that they were outplayed in just about every period of that series....and save for some ridiculous goaltending, it doesnt go 7.

Im not suggesting it hangs on BB alone.....they were beat by a better team IMO and it was a 7 gamer because of that longstanding hockey X factor....a hot goalie

I'll say this again.....im not sying BB stinks, is a moron, or whatever...but at what point do the full on BB supporters recognize that, to this point....he hasnt gotten it done when it counts.

His teams rack up wins like eating popcorn during the season, and thats important....but when it really matters he loses more than he wins. Lets hope that changes this spring
I'm with TXPD. BB has had crud D corps to work with up until last year. Schultz, Juice, Shamo, etc etc

Last year Wideman out, Green pretty much out and Carlson injured late in the Tampa series really didn't help along with the various rookies in the lineup (Mojo, NEUVIRTH, Carlzner) playing key roles.

I think BB gets a seriously bad rap b/c fans are getting greedy. We are still an excessively young team (well we were until this year) so lets see how we do this year before brushing him off. Its like VaTech fans giving grief to Frank Beamer for many of the same reasons.

I like BB alot and think he's the best coach the Caps ever had. It

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11-15-2011, 01:53 PM
  #788
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@nbtw: you see any sign that mcphee would seriously do what it would take to get suter?
Nope. I also didn't think there was any way he'd trade Varlamov. GMGM rarely telegraphs any of the moves he makes, and is very difficult to predict.

Suter's too perfect of a fit not to at least kick the tires.

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11-15-2011, 01:55 PM
  #789
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Along with needing an upgrade at LD, I'm also thinking that the Caps need another top-6 forward. Semin is having about the worst stretch of his career, and Knuble's been relegated to the 4th line.

Obviously, someone like Shane Doan would be ideal, but I'm not sure GMGM would give up the assets necessary to get him.

Ray Whitney might be a clever acquisition, and shouldn't cost too much. Koivu as well, if the Ducks continue to flounder

Of course, all of this discussion is academic if GMGM can't send out some salary. Hamrlik and Schultz seem like obvious candidates, but I could actually see Semin in play as well.
I really wouldn't trade any players at all really. I like the team and don't want to mess with chemistry at that point of the season. We have cap issues too so salary would have to go out and we have few bad contracts that other teams want.

Semin is struggling but he'll turn it around. Hamrlik is not going anywhere. Schultz is good insurance and I doubt anyone wants his contract.

Unless we really start to struggle or get hit with key injuries I don't see a need. They got a good group.

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11-15-2011, 02:04 PM
  #790
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I'm with TXPD. BB has had crud D corps to work with up until last year. Schultz, Juice, Shamo, etc etc

Last year Wideman out, Green pretty much out and Carlson injured late in the Tampa series really didn't help along with the various rookies in the lineup (Mojo, NEUVIRTH, Carlzner) playing key roles.

I think BB gets a seriously bad rap b/c fans are getting greedy. We are still an excessively young team (well we were until this year) so lets see how we do this year before brushing him off. Its like VaTech fans giving grief to Frank Beamer for many of the same reasons.

I like BB alot and think he's the best coach the Caps ever had. It
they got swept....im tired of excuses like "oh...players X was out and players Y and Z were too nicked up to be effective". Pitt/TB goes 7 games and they are missing SC/EM. Come playoff time no one is totally healthy.....excuses are for teams that lose

If the system is so dependant on puck moving D, and your top D has been ineffective or injured just about every spring....you need to have something else up your sleeve...not pack it in

I dont hate BB, not saying he stinks or is dumb....but he has more to prove to be better than BM, RW...and probably even TM

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11-15-2011, 02:13 PM
  #791
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they got swept....im tired of excuses like "oh...players X was out and players Y and Z were too nicked up to be effective". Pitt/TB goes 7 games and they are missing SC/EM. Come playoff time no one is totally healthy.....excuses are for teams that lose

If the system is so dependant on puck moving D, and your top D has been ineffective or injured just about every spring....you need to have something else up your sleeve...not pack it in

I dont hate BB, not saying he stinks or is dumb....but he has more to prove to be better than BM, RW...and probably even TM
Hanlon couldn't do anything with the same team as BB and he has an insane record as the Caps coach don't lose sight of that.

If you're tired of excuses look at the person above BB who has been here for 15 years now. My take is if you let BB go then you better let him go too b/c he's the one who hired BB and the 3 junky coaches before he got here. Do you really trust him to make the next coaching call IF you believe BB should go???

I can understand your frustration but pinning this on the coach is not the way to go.

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11-15-2011, 02:20 PM
  #792
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Schultz: That healthy scratch might be a sign. Might not be, but McPhee has reached a point fairly suddenly to the outside view on Sutherby and Steckel. They both had contracts that seemed difficult to trade and that didnt stop him. I would not be surprised to see Schultz get traded. I am not predicting it, but it would not surprise me at all.

@Mothra: They did get swept. What's the difference between a reason and an excuse?
If they lost because Boudreau had the team unprepared or was tactically out coached, its a reason. If the team could not play its game because primary players for that game were not playing, its an excuse.

McPhee made roster changes with the clear idea that in his mind they lost because they did not have enough quality depth on defense that could move the puck. Seems to me what you think is an excuse, McPhee thought was a reason.

McPhee felt like his young roster needed veteran support. He traded for veteran players with playoff experience to play top half of the lineup roles in the playoffs, Arnott and Wideman. He apparantly felt like the players they would be taking minutes from were not up to the task yet. The result was that Wideman missed all of the playoffs and Arnott had a knee injury when he was acquired that required surgery and he is not close to ready to play come playoffs.

Is that an excuse or a reason? For me its a reason. If you want to put it on McPhee for trading for an injured 2nd line center, feel free. It was a move that didnt work out. If you want to blame McPhee for a poor choice in Wideman, feel free. It didnt work out either. Reality is that those players were acquired to play a primary role in the playoffs and they brought very little. Where Wideman was concerned, losing Green and then Carlson only made that situation untenable.

My view is that those Tampa Bay games required a goalie to steal one or two to make anything happen and the rookie buckled under the pressure a little bit too much to steal anything. Is that a reason or an excuse?

btw....if the caps go into any playoff series without all of green, carlson and wideman, they going to struggle to win any games. period


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11-15-2011, 02:35 PM
  #793
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I really wouldn't trade any players at all really. I like the team and don't want to mess with chemistry at that point of the season. We have cap issues too so salary would have to go out and we have few bad contracts that other teams want.

Semin is struggling but he'll turn it around. Hamrlik is not going anywhere. Schultz is good insurance and I doubt anyone wants his contract.

Unless we really start to struggle or get hit with key injuries I don't see a need. They got a good group.
I do think it's a good group, but they're not without weaknesses. With Green out, I've noticed that opponents are targeting the left side of the defense on the forecheck (especially when Alzner is playing RD). Basically every dump goes into the left corner, because they know that Hamrlik/Schultz/Erskine won't beat them to the puck, and there's a decent chance one of those defensemen will take a penalty in the process. Getting someone who's a better skater (and better player) like Suter or Gleason eliminates that strategy against the top two pairings. Sure, it'll still be available against Erskine or Schultz for the third pairing, but that's only for 15 minutes or so ES.

I also think that we'd all agree the bottom 6 has been much more consistent than the top 6 this season (with the exception of the Swedes). Now, I could envision a scenario where Knuble's only on the 4th line to save his legs for later in the season, but I like the idea of having a little scoring pop on every line. Getting someone to bring more offensive consistency to the top 6 would really round out the offense.

Ideally for me, GMGM moves out Hamrlik, Schultz, and Semin, and brings in Suter, Doan, and Gleason. Obviously, the chances of that happening are very slim. More realistically, I'd like to see Hamrlik out and one of Suter/Gleason in, Schultz out and Whitney in, and then Eakin down and one of Perrault and Beagle either down or out, and Mike Weaver in.

That would be ~$7.4M out and either $7.4M in or $6.65M in, depending on if you get Suter or Gleason.

That leaves you with a post-deadline lineup of:

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Brouwer
Whitney-Johansson-Semin
Chimera-Laich-Ward
Hendricks-Halpern-Knuble
Perrault/Beagle

Suter/Gleason-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Weaver-Wideman
Erskine

Vokoun
Neuvirth

To me, that's a better lineup, with better depth, and you haven't changed the makeup much. Eakin's still available as a call-up, and it gives GMGM more cap flexibility going into the summer.

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11-15-2011, 02:49 PM
  #794
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I do think it's a good group, but they're not without weaknesses. With Green out, I've noticed that opponents are targeting the left side of the defense on the forecheck (especially when Alzner is playing RD). Basically every dump goes into the left corner, because they know that Hamrlik/Schultz/Erskine won't beat them to the puck, and there's a decent chance one of those defensemen will take a penalty in the process. Getting someone who's a better skater (and better player) like Suter or Gleason eliminates that strategy against the top two pairings. Sure, it'll still be available against Erskine or Schultz for the third pairing, but that's only for 15 minutes or so ES.

I also think that we'd all agree the bottom 6 has been much more consistent than the top 6 this season (with the exception of the Swedes). Now, I could envision a scenario where Knuble's only on the 4th line to save his legs for later in the season, but I like the idea of having a little scoring pop on every line. Getting someone to bring more offensive consistency to the top 6 would really round out the offense.

Ideally for me, GMGM moves out Hamrlik, Schultz, and Semin, and brings in Suter, Doan, and Gleason. Obviously, the chances of that happening are very slim. More realistically, I'd like to see Hamrlik out and one of Suter/Gleason in, Schultz out and Whitney in, and then Eakin down and one of Perrault and Beagle either down or out, and Mike Weaver in.

That would be ~$7.4M out and either $7.4M in or $6.65M in, depending on if you get Suter or Gleason.

That leaves you with a post-deadline lineup of:

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Brouwer
Whitney-Johansson-Semin
Chimera-Laich-Ward
Hendricks-Halpern-Knuble
Perrault/Beagle

Suter/Gleason-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Weaver-Wideman
Erskine

Vokoun
Neuvirth

To me, that's a better lineup, with better depth, and you haven't changed the makeup much. Eakin's still available as a call-up, and it gives GMGM more cap flexibility going into the summer.
Well obviously I'd LOVE to have Suter, Doan and Gleason but I was speaking more realistically in my scenario.

You see the only way those 3 are traded from their respective teams is if those teams are out of the playoff hunt......now...IF those teams are out of the playoff hunt then they won't want guys like Semin, Hamrlik and Schultz...they will want young assets and futures. We could probably dump those guys on other teams but would need to take salary back thus preventing trades for guys like Suter, Doan and Gleason.

I don't think Hamrlik has been as bad as everyone is making him out to be. Come playoff time I think he'll provide alot of experience. Green has been real good this year..real good in part b/c of his defense partner I believe.

I should rephrase what I said ..I wouldn't make any trades unless there is a deal on the table just way too good to pass up. Other teams out of contention will be looking at Kuznetsov, 1st rounders, Holtby, Orlov and other young players who the Caps certainly don't want to give up. They won't want Schultz, Hammer or UFA to be Semin.

Also another secret factor is team chemistry. I still feel ill over the Zednik/Bulis trade that brought in Zubrus/Linden. It had a bad ripple effect over the entire team and all the good vibes were gone. I wouldn't trade Ovechkin's best buddy halfway thru the season for instance.

I could see Schultz being dumped tho since he doesn't strike me as an integral part of the team.

Hammer was just signed this offseason and I just don't think McPhee would want the bad rep of trading him after he just signed him. Just gut instinct.


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11-15-2011, 02:49 PM
  #795
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Well..Suter would not be coming this season. Poile is going to try and win something while he has him.

Whitney Johansson Semin is pretty soft, dont you think? My view is that Knuble ends up back on the first line and Brouwer ends up on the left wing with 90 and 28. Brouwer plays both, but my guess is that he has played entirely RW to protect his shoulder. Come playoffs, Brouwer Johansson Semin is pretty well balanced for speed, open ice skill, forechecking physical play and defensive coverage.

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11-15-2011, 03:04 PM
  #796
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Hanlon couldn't do anything with the same team as BB and he has an insane record as the Caps coach don't lose sight of that.

If you're tired of excuses look at the person above BB who has been here for 15 years now. My take is if you let BB go then you better let him go too b/c he's the one who hired BB and the 3 junky coaches before he got here. Do you really trust him to make the next coaching call IF you believe BB should go???

I can understand your frustration but pinning this on the coach is not the way to go.
here is something not to lose sight of......

he has a HoF-ish win-loss record in the regular season (insane as you put it).....he is under .500 in the playoffs. Thats not an eyebrow raiser to you?

Not sure why you are bringing up GH, I certainly didnt.

Im a GMGM guy but certainly not against looking for another person in that position if push came to shove. That said.....he has put together a team that appears to be good on paper and on the ice during the regular season. Come playoff time he cant do much from his office other than hope his moves are used wisely on the ice. To me, that hasnt happened yet....maybe that will change

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11-15-2011, 03:08 PM
  #797
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Well..Suter would not be coming this season. Poile is going to try and win something while he has him.

Whitney Johansson Semin is pretty soft, dont you think? My view is that Knuble ends up back on the first line and Brouwer ends up on the left wing with 90 and 28. Brouwer plays both, but my guess is that he has played entirely RW to protect his shoulder. Come playoffs, Brouwer Johansson Semin is pretty well balanced for speed, open ice skill, forechecking physical play and defensive coverage.
It's no softer than Eakin-Johansson-Semin. And that's just one possibility. Ovechkin-Backstrom-Whitney is another, with Brouwer-Johansson-Semin. Or you could switch Backstrom and Johansson for more balance. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Whitney makes the top 6 (and PP) significantly better.

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11-15-2011, 03:12 PM
  #798
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Well obviously I'd LOVE to have Suter, Doan and Gleason but I was speaking more realistically in my scenario.

You see the only way those 3 are traded from their respective teams is if those teams are out of the playoff hunt......now...IF those teams are out of the playoff hunt then they won't want guys like Semin, Hamrlik and Schultz...they will want young assets and futures. We could probably dump those guys on other teams but would need to take salary back thus preventing trades for guys like Suter, Doan and Gleason.

I don't think Hamrlik has been as bad as everyone is making him out to be. Come playoff time I think he'll provide alot of experience. Green has been real good this year..real good in part b/c of his defense partner I believe.

I should rephrase what I said ..I wouldn't make any trades unless there is a deal on the table just way too good to pass up. Other teams out of contention will be looking at Kuznetsov, 1st rounders, Holtby, Orlov and other young players who the Caps certainly don't want to give up. They won't want Schultz, Hammer or UFA to be Semin.

Also another secret factor is team chemistry. I still feel ill over the Zednik/Bulis trade that brought in Zubrus/Linden. It had a bad ripple effect over the entire team and all the good vibes were gone. I wouldn't trade Ovechkin's best buddy halfway thru the season for instance.

I could see Schultz being dumped tho since he doesn't strike me as an integral part of the team.

Hammer was just signed this offseason and I just don't think McPhee would want the bad rep of trading him after he just signed him. Just gut instinct.
What would you think about Gleason, Whitney, and Weaver, keeping Semin and shipping out Hamrlik and Schultz (along with whatever futures make the deals work)?

Obviously, you're not trading Kuznetsov, Orlov, Holtby, Colorado's 1st and probably not Eakin in any of those deals.

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11-15-2011, 03:15 PM
  #799
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here is something not to lose sight of......

he has a HoF-ish win-loss record in the regular season (insane as you put it).....he is under .500 in the playoffs. Thats not an eyebrow raiser to you?

Not sure why you are bringing up GH, I certainly didnt.

Im a GMGM guy but certainly not against looking for another person in that position if push came to shove. That said.....he has put together a team that appears to be good on paper and on the ice during the regular season. Come playoff time he cant do much from his office other than hope his moves are used wisely on the ice. To me, that hasnt happened yet....maybe that will change
The Red Wings of the late 80s and early 90s had great regular seasons only to fall apart in the playoffs as well. The Oilers of the early 80s and even the younger (pre Goring) Islanders struggled at first in the playoffs as well. What they had in common was they were very young teams.

Remember the Caps are still a very young team. Its been sometime since I've seen a team go into the playoffs with a rookie 1st pairing on D and a rookie and a young 20ish year old goalie...not to mention a rookie 2nd line center.

This year they are more experienced and brought in some better vets so hopefully the results will be better.

The reason I brought Hanlon up is b/c McPhee hired him. I think everyone can universally agree that McPhee has gotten much much better at drafting and team building but he should not escape the persecution that BB will surely get if there is another early exit.

I think the Caps still need a defining moment like Messier undressing the Islander D in game 3 of the 84 finals to tie the game. Its funny to me how just one moment, one goal, one great crucial save can alter the outlook of a team. In the Playoffs I think we need Ovechkin to have his Messier moment or if not him one of our other "young guns"

It wouldn't hurt to get our "Butch Goring" either but I'm not sure who that would be and if that player is available at the right price.

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11-15-2011, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
What would you think about Gleason, Whitney, and Weaver, keeping Semin and shipping out Hamrlik and Schultz (along with whatever futures make the deals work)?

Obviously, you're not trading Kuznetsov, Orlov, Holtby, Colorado's 1st and probably not Eakin in any of those deals.
I would think thats wishful thinking!! haha

Gleason would be awesome as would Weaver. Not a fan of Whitney personally at this stage of his career. I'd rather have Semin than him ..much rather actually.

Now swapping out Hamrlik/Schultz for Weaver/Gleason I think is a pipe dream really. But IF it could happen without losing any of those assets or other roster players then i'd be all for it. I just don't think its realistic.

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