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2011 Capitals Roster Speculation, Thoughts, & Expectations (Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap)

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Old
11-15-2011, 03:24 PM
  #801
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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I'm as big of a Bruce defender as there is, but he got out-coached in the Tampa series. I don't think it was being strategically/schematically out-coached, but Boucher motivated and prepared his guys better. Tampa was just much more ready to play than the Caps, out-hustled and out-worked them.

Frankly, it's the only playoff series I've thought he was out-coached. The Caps were ridiculously unlucky against Montreal, outgunned on defense against Pittsburgh, and outgunned throughout the lineup against Philly.

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11-15-2011, 03:24 PM
  #802
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@Mothra: They did get swept. What's the difference between a reason and an excuse?
If they lost because Boudreau had the team unprepared or was tactically out coached, its a reason. If the team could not play its game because primary players for that game were not playing, its an excuse.
again....I know you dont agree and im not suggesting a full on change in system come playoff time but if you are that dependant on on a certain skill, and have nothing else in your back of tactics....its a problem.

remind me...how many games did Green/Carlson miss combined?

not only this but....hanging much of the teams playoff success on a player (52) that hasnt had any real playoff success is...a problem. He gets injured....nicked up...whatever you want to call it. I know...some people want to talk about the fancy stickhandling and slick skating.....thats exactly what I think about when I think "playoff success"...yes, thats sarcasm


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btw....if the caps go into any playoff series without all of green, carlson and wideman, they going to struggle to win any games. period
thats a fair statement.....when it happens let it be the excuse. Last season they missed a player they picked up at the deadline (wideman) and the other two played all but 1 game I believe.

TB lost Gagne and Kubina....Pitt were missing SC/EM...good teams come up with a way to compete, not just mail in it saying "well....we cant do the one thing we do....there is always next year i guess"

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11-15-2011, 03:28 PM
  #803
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Washington is not a young team. We are the 11th oldest team I'm the league. Sorry can't link from my phone.

Further, its irrelevant talking about a dynasty with the current core of 8, 19, 28, and 52 as I strongly suspect that half of them are out of here next season.

For the record, Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri and Coffey were all 22/23/24 in 84.

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11-15-2011, 03:40 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Washington is not a young team. We are the 11th oldest team I'm the league. Sorry can't link from my phone.

Further, its irrelevant talking about a dynasty with the current core of 8, 19, 28, and 52 as I strongly suspect that half of them are out of here next season.

For the record, Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri and Coffey were all 22/23/24 in 84.
Sure this year. Last year they had young players in crucial positions.

Hannan was the only vet on D.

D and G are the most important positions in the playoffs and we were far too young there in years past (far too young or cruddy like Juice, Shamo, or Schultz who was both young and cruddy)

Well next year Ovechkin and Backstrom aren't going anywhere so you clearly think both Green and Semin will be gone which I would take that bet in a heartbeat. They will not let Green go and if Semin improves his play they will make a strong bid to resign him. 3 or 4 will be back for sure.

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11-15-2011, 03:40 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
For the record, Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri and Coffey were all 22/23/24 in 84.
Shanahan, Fedorov, and Lidstrom were 26/27 in 96-97. And Yzerman was 31.

That's a more relevant example to me. Back-to-back Cups is a dynasty in today's game. I don't think we'll see another team win 4 straight or 4 in 5 years in the salary cap era.

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11-15-2011, 03:49 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Shanahan, Fedorov, and Lidstrom were 26/27 in 96-97. And Yzerman was 31.

That's a more relevant example to me. Back-to-back Cups is a dynasty in today's game. I don't think we'll see another team win 4 straight or 4 in 5 years in the salary cap era.
Good points and its not like Ovy, Backstrom, Semin and Green are crafty veterans. They are in their mid 20s. Carlzner and Mojo have a year of experience under their belts and having Hamrlik, Wideman (healthy) and Vokoun should definitely help come playoff time.

I think McPhee did a good job of recognizing the teams lack of crafty vet presence and addressed it.

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11-15-2011, 03:55 PM
  #807
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@Lightning series:

BB did get out-coached, but the TB players wanted it more too. I still remember Boucher giving them the day off and St. Louis and Lecavalier were having none of it, got the team together for a practice before a back-to-back game IIRC.

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11-15-2011, 04:01 PM
  #808
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@Lightning series:

BB did get out-coached, but the TB players wanted it more too. I still remember Boucher giving them the day off and St. Louis and Lecavalier were having none of it, got the team together for a practice before a back-to-back game IIRC.
Veteran leadership will do that for you. Remember those guys won a cup not too long ago along with Kubina. They were infinitely more experienced than the Caps who had Arnott as a late season addition and thats it.

Also lets face it..the 1-3-1 is cheap and I never seem more bounces and wierd "chuck it to the net and hope it bounces off the skate of a Caps player" type offense in games 1-3..seemed like half their goals were scored like that.

But whatever. It didn't help that we were playing with a banged up Backstrom, Wideman out and then Green/Carlson going out.

I think it was the perfect storm of suck that happened to the Caps. They should have won the 1st 2 games based on their play I thought. Roloson was just much better than Neuvirth..again experience wins out.

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11-15-2011, 04:15 PM
  #809
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The Red Wings of the late 80s and early 90s had great regular seasons only to fall apart in the playoffs as well. The Oilers of the early 80s and even the younger (pre Goring) Islanders struggled at first in the playoffs as well. What they had in common was they were very young teams.
I guess our definition of "fall apart" may be different....I seem to recall detroit making a couple runs in the late 80's under Demers only to lose to a pretty good team from Edmonton. Later, under Bowman....a guy with a pretty good coaching track record, they still lost (in the Finals) and it wasnt until they moved a D that was very smooth skating and slick with the stick that they were able to win it all...Hmmmmmm

as for Edmonton....youre kidding right? Define struggle. They lost the the NYI in the Finals. I remember 99 being the big sensation and that they didnt win right away....but it didnt take them long. Also....pretty sure Sather didnt start coaching until after they were in the NHL for a couple years

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Remember the Caps are still a very young team. Its been sometime since I've seen a team go into the playoffs with a rookie 1st pairing on D and a rookie and a young 20ish year old goalie...not to mention a rookie 2nd line center.
I dont think of the Caps as a "very young team" anymore...that was a couple years ago. They have a young core, agreed....and they are young/inexperienced in a few spots for sure....but I disagree they are a "very young team". That sounds more like an Edmonton

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I think the Caps still need a defining moment like Messier undressing the Islander D in game 3 of the 84 finals to tie the game. Its funny to me how just one moment, one goal, one great crucial save can alter the outlook of a team. In the Playoffs I think we need Ovechkin to have his Messier moment or if not him one of our other "young guns"
a defining moment like...lets say 8 scoring 3 against rival Pit, or 19 doing the same the next season against Mtl, with the 3rd being the OT game winner?

if thats not defining....what is?

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11-15-2011, 04:22 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I'm as big of a Bruce defender as there is, but he got out-coached in the Tampa series. I don't think it was being strategically/schematically out-coached, but Boucher motivated and prepared his guys better. Tampa was just much more ready to play than the Caps, out-hustled and out-worked them.

Frankly, it's the only playoff series I've thought he was out-coached. The Caps were ridiculously unlucky against Montreal, outgunned on defense against Pittsburgh, and outgunned throughout the lineup against Philly.
I dont disagree with most of this but to say they were just unlucky against MTL doesnt fly with me....

the PP got shut down and they did zero to address it....benching Fleishmann in game 7 isnt enough. He post series interviews...where he talks about how he never would have guessed they score 1 PP goal or lose 3 straight (or whatever the specifics where), added with no tweaks in tactics really shows that it was just more of the same "keep at it boys...we'll get them" and they didnt

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11-16-2011, 03:05 PM
  #811
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So it's early, but it doesn't look like Semin is responding well to the "new Boudreau" system. I hate to bump this idea, but is it time to shop him for a real 2C (one who can score, play d, AND win draws) and move Johansson to wing?

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11-16-2011, 03:09 PM
  #812
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I dont disagree with most of this but to say they were just unlucky against MTL doesnt fly with me....

the PP got shut down and they did zero to address it....benching Fleishmann in game 7 isnt enough. He post series interviews...where he talks about how he never would have guessed they score 1 PP goal or lose 3 straight (or whatever the specifics where), added with no tweaks in tactics really shows that it was just more of the same "keep at it boys...we'll get them" and they didnt
I think it's fair to say they were unlucky against Montreal

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11-16-2011, 03:14 PM
  #813
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Everyone is unlucky or lucky. Preparation and drive creates luck.

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11-16-2011, 03:29 PM
  #814
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Everyone is unlucky or lucky. Preparation and drive creates luck.
No! Me wearing my lucky jersey and not shaving during winning streaks creates luck. God, talk about wrong. Preparation and drive, what a load of crap.


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11-16-2011, 03:30 PM
  #815
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Roger Penske says that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. This means he takes full credit for good luck. He doesnt speak to bad luck

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11-16-2011, 03:44 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Roger Penske says that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. This means he takes full credit for good luck. He doesnt speak to bad luck
That's cause losers only say bad luck

edit: I mean wrt sports... only those involved. Fans can choose to believe or not believe in luck. I can't tell you the things I do/don't do in name of luck/god watching as a fan.

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11-16-2011, 04:11 PM
  #817
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I think it's fair to say they were unlucky against Montreal
they were up 3-1 in the series.....To pin losing 3 straight on "luck" is for losers IMO

They continued with the exact same strategies game after game and in the end, it didnt work. I guess they were unlucky that doing the same thing over and over as the series wore didnt work.....sometimes, you have to make your luck, not just hope for it

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11-16-2011, 04:59 PM
  #818
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That's cause losers only say bad luck

edit: I mean wrt sports... only those involved. Fans can choose to believe or not believe in luck. I can't tell you the things I do/don't do in name of luck/god watching as a fan.
I know a few things about Mr Penske. He would not allow anyone to take any credit from his group because he got a lucky break or took advantage of someone else's misfortune. You get full credit for being the guy in second place when a rabbit runs out on the track, gets hit by the leader and breaks his radiator.

In the epic 5 OT lose to the Islanders Trottier gets full credit for putting a puck on the net. Nobody gets the blame for the puck going in because the bolt holding together the hinge on Masons molded skate broke and he lost his balance.

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11-16-2011, 05:28 PM
  #819
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I know a few things about Mr Penske. He would not allow anyone to take any credit from his group because he got a lucky break or took advantage of someone else's misfortune. You get full credit for being the guy in second place when a rabbit runs out on the track, gets hit by the leader and breaks his radiator.

In the epic 5 OT lose to the Islanders Trottier gets full credit for putting a puck on the net. Nobody gets the blame for the puck going in because the bolt holding together the hinge on Masons molded skate broke and he lost his balance.
In terms of the Mtl series....I dont think of a goalie playing great as being unlucky. Unlucky is a crazy bounce off of the glass.....something like that. A guy playing great...not so much lucky or unlucky IMO

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11-16-2011, 05:34 PM
  #820
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If we want to talk about being "unlucky" in any of the playoff losses, Montreal is not the one to point at, but rather Pittsburgh.



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11-16-2011, 06:29 PM
  #821
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Any one instance of being unlucky is overshaddowed by the thousands of other decisions that go into losing that were self inflicted.

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11-16-2011, 08:09 PM
  #822
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I dont disagree with most of this but to say they were just unlucky against MTL doesnt fly with me....

the PP got shut down and they did zero to address it....benching Fleishmann in game 7 isnt enough. He post series interviews...where he talks about how he never would have guessed they score 1 PP goal or lose 3 straight (or whatever the specifics where), added with no tweaks in tactics really shows that it was just more of the same "keep at it boys...we'll get them" and they didnt
The massive volume of shots the Caps got from the circles in without scoring indicates some severe bad luck. That bad luck being mostly that they ran into a goaltender that got incredibly hot.

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11-16-2011, 08:15 PM
  #823
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Any one instance of being unlucky is overshaddowed by the thousands of other decisions that go into losing that were self inflicted.
yea....I have a hard time pointing to luck in a 7 game series. A team may be lucky/unlucky with seeding/matchups/injuries/etc....but when skate touches ice, the team winning 4 out of 7 isnt lucky, they won

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11-16-2011, 08:16 PM
  #824
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Just in case anyone cares Sasha is riding a 5 game penalty streak #Winning.

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11-16-2011, 08:27 PM
  #825
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The massive volume of shots the Caps got from the circles in without scoring indicates some severe bad luck. That bad luck being mostly that they ran into a goaltender that got incredibly hot.
i just dont buy that as bad luck.....they just kept doing the same thing and hoping it would eventually go in.

again, bad luck is some crazy bounce off the glass or whatever. When their goalie outplays your goalie....its not bad luck. When they get in your face and make a point to block shot after shot, its not bad luck....when you give away game 1 at home to an 8 seed, its not bad luck....when you sign Knuble but give Fleischmann prime PP time....its not bad luck

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