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Old
09-15-2011, 12:57 PM
  #51
wpgsilver
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Well that was a waste.. he was on for 45 seconds.

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:58 PM
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Ya, that sucked he got on late.

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Old
09-16-2011, 01:36 AM
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would you say that schenn's 5 year deal at 3.5m per year is better than bogosian's 2m, 3m deal? if bogosian develops as expected, his next deal might be 4m+ per year.

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09-16-2011, 01:52 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
would you say that schenn's 5 year deal at 3.5m per year is better than bogosian's 2m, 3m deal? if bogosian develops as expected, his next deal might be 4m+ per year.
No, Luke Schenn is a better player today than Zach Bogosian is, just as Drew Doughty is a better player today than Luke Schenn is. Over the next two years, the Winnipeg Jets are on the hook for 5 million. The Toronto Maple Leafs are on the hook for 7 million. And for comparison’s sake, odds are that over that span, the Los Angeles Kings will be on the hook for 14 million. If each of the three players took two year contracts, their team would still have restricted free agent rights at the end of the deal. Whether or not Schenn develops, the Toronto Maple Leafs will owe him another 10.5 million for the next three years after that.

I like this deal because we’re paying for what he’s worth today, rather than what he might be worth. If Schenn develops into a player as good as Doughty is, then they will have a bargain. But his contract could just as easily become an albatross. Of the three, only Doughty has proven and established himself. The other two are more prospect than professional. If Bogosian warrants a 4+ million dollar contract in two years time, the Winnipeg Jets will be pleased to pay him that. If he doesn’t, then they won’t have squandered money locking up a player who is still more prospect than professional.

When you have a Crosby or a Stamkos, someone who though young, has demonstrated worth, clubs should do what they can to keep them long term. But too often these players end up being paid far in excess of the worth because General Managers jump the gun, trying to safeguard their assets. Now, since I’ve neglected to put a cliché in here yet, it’s the equivalent of counting your chickens before they’ve hatched.

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09-16-2011, 02:34 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
would you say that schenn's 5 year deal at 3.5m per year is better than bogosian's 2m, 3m deal? if bogosian develops as expected, his next deal might be 4m+ per year.
I think that Schenn deal is risky. Bogo's deal is perfect for who he is at this time. He has a chance to prove himself, and the Jets don't risk too much money or term and still have his rights for another contract.

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09-16-2011, 09:22 AM
  #56
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Player wise and performance wise, I personally think both deals are quite fair. However, signing Schenn to a term of 5 years in my opinion is plain dumb. He's got 3 years under his belt and broke into the league at 18, he's got 4 more years of RFA status, so once he hits 7 seasons, he would have been eligible for UFA. They bought ONE year of UFA off him. When this 5-year deal expires, they will have bought 1 year UFA status off him and he'll be set free (potentially) at 26 years old. I personally would have signed him to a deal for 3 years, which would then allow you to sign him with one more year as a RFA, which puts the team in a good position to 1. Know what the player is all about 2. Sign him long-term and 3. Buy his UFA years.

Now, in 5 years when he is entering his prime, and perhaps Toronto is ready to compete, they've only had him for 1 of his UFA years and Schenn could up and walk. Not smart, in my opinion.

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09-16-2011, 09:34 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Player wise and performance wise, I personally think both deals are quite fair. However, signing Schenn to a term of 5 years in my opinion is plain dumb. He's got 3 years under his belt and broke into the league at 18, he's got 4 more years of RFA status, so once he hits 7 seasons, he would have been eligible for UFA. They bought ONE year of UFA off him. When this 5-year deal expires, they will have bought 1 year UFA status off him and he'll be set free (potentially) at 26 years old. I personally would have signed him to a deal for 3 years, which would then allow you to sign him with one more year as a RFA, which puts the team in a good position to 1. Know what the player is all about 2. Sign him long-term and 3. Buy his UFA years.

Now, in 5 years when he is entering his prime, and perhaps Toronto is ready to compete, they've only had him for 1 of his UFA years and Schenn could up and walk. Not smart, in my opinion.
I agree on your premise regarding Schenn. Why do the Leafs and Brian Burke keep crapping the bed like this (goes along with BB's pronouncment that he wouldn't front load contracts). It's one thing to believe that a system (CBA) is wrong, another to act like it doesn't exist and keep continuously making bone-headed moves..... Oh well, it's just the Leafs being the Leafs they'll still make buckets of money when they miss the playoffs again (I guess it opens up dates for other concerts and events).

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Old
09-16-2011, 10:00 AM
  #58
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It's just an unwise move and way to do things, I think. It would have been like us signing Blake Wheeler for a 4 year deal. The next 3 years are his RFA years, and we would have bought just one UFA year, being the 4th year of the deal - then, in his prime, if he is any good, he could up and walk at 28 years old.

We did the smart thing - sign him for 2 years, see where he is at, where the team is at, and then seeing as he only has 1 more year if RFA status left, you can re-sign him and ALSO buy 3 or 4 or more UFA years.

It would would have been no different had we of signed Bogosian for 5 years. We'd get him for the duration of his RFA years (4 more years) and 1 UFA year. Then, he could up and walk and we don't get him for his prime years.

You just set yourself up better that way, in my opinion. I think with key players you should always set yourself up to buy and have them for their greatest years. This is a great deal for Luke Schenn, but a stupid deal for Toronto if he up and walks in 5 years as a UFA at just 26 years old.

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09-16-2011, 10:53 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
It's just an unwise move and way to do things, I think. It would have been like us signing Blake Wheeler for a 4 year deal. The next 3 years are his RFA years, and we would have bought just one UFA year, being the 4th year of the deal - then, in his prime, if he is any good, he could up and walk at 28 years old.

We did the smart thing - sign him for 2 years, see where he is at, where the team is at, and then seeing as he only has 1 more year if RFA status left, you can re-sign him and ALSO buy 3 or 4 or more UFA years.

It would would have been no different had we of signed Bogosian for 5 years. We'd get him for the duration of his RFA years (4 more years) and 1 UFA year. Then, he could up and walk and we don't get him for his prime years.

You just set yourself up better that way, in my opinion. I think with key players you should always set yourself up to buy and have them for their greatest years. This is a great deal for Luke Schenn, but a stupid deal for Toronto if he up and walks in 5 years as a UFA at just 26 years old.
I agree with you Guerzy. I think as a GM it would be smart to always have the second contract end with 1 or 2 years left of RFA. That way you are in a better position to buy UFA years at an acceptable price. If for instance we resign Bogo to a 5 year deal at the end of his current contract, we would be buying 3 years of UFA. At the end of his current 2 year deal we should (hopefully) be in a position to know how much those 5 years should be worth.

If not, we still have the option to sign him to a 1 year deal, and he still would be an RFA after.

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