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Colton Teubert's nose knows?

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Old
09-16-2011, 02:38 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Although this is a more extreme example, it happened with the Islanders in the infamous game against Pittsburgh last year when the game was out of hand and they sent a message that they weren't going to be pushovers anymore by standing up for themselves phyiscally and having each other's back.
That game turned around their season and the team as a whole became a lot closer as a result.
Pittsburgh is a perfect illustration that all the enforcement you obtain does not result in the safety of your star players.

Crosby being out for a year due to a vicious headhunt and with no deterrence for the opponent player not to do that.

Crosby's own part being that he put himself in the very vulnerable position.

Ultimately this is up to teams, captains, coaches, orgs, consistently complaining about this until something is done and that the NHLPA, and NHL, do not condone this.

Fighting does bugger all in keeping anything out of the game.

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09-16-2011, 02:42 PM
  #177
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Well at least he's willing. So was Stortini, so was Buchberger. Its too bad that in terms of message sent the one that was sent was Polasek decking Teubert and promptly looking over to the Oiler bench as in "anybody else want a piece of me"?

Take a look at the replay. Polasek looking right over at the Oilers bench after the fight. Yeah thats a message.
I thought, according to you at least, that fighting doesn't send any message whatsoever. I'm confused.

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09-16-2011, 02:43 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Pittsburgh is a perfect illustration that all the enforcement you obtain does not result in the safety of your star players.

Crosby being out for a year due to a vicious headhunt and with no deterrence for the opponent player not to do that.

Crosby's own part being that he put himself in the very vulnerable position.

Ultimately this is up to teams, captains, coaches, orgs, consistently complaining about this until something is done and that the NHLPA, and NHL, do not condone this.

Fighting does bugger all in keeping anything out of the game.
Fear not, it'll be out of the game soon ... as we've discussed before. Then the stick merchants can run the show.

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09-16-2011, 02:45 PM
  #179
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If you know you are going to get it if you get out of line you play differently. It is hard to explain to someone if they never experienced it.

Used to go to PA in the late 80s and everyone was scared to play there. They used to talk about it all the time. It wasn't because Modano was on that team, it was because they had a collection of some of the meanest,nastiest players to play against.

It really changed your attitude going into that rink when you are 16 or 17 years old. Was the game any less physical? Not really but I can tell you it was less dirty,less retalitory because you knew what was coming.

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09-16-2011, 02:55 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Pittsburgh is a perfect illustration that all the enforcement you obtain does not result in the safety of your star players.

Crosby being out for a year due to a vicious headhunt and with no deterrence for the opponent player not to do that.

Crosby's own part being that he put himself in the very vulnerable position.

Ultimately this is up to teams, captains, coaches, orgs, consistently complaining about this until something is done and that the NHLPA, and NHL, do not condone this.

Fighting does bugger all in keeping anything out of the game.
Well, as you said, an example like the Crosby concussion is as much his fault as anybody else for leaving himself vulnerable to be hit like that so whether Pittsburgh has enough tough guys or not wouldn't have changed that outcome.
However as i illustrated with the Islanders example, fighting and sticking up for your fellow teammates did serve a positive purpose in that case so there is a place for it in the game in some capacity.

I personally think that trying to send a message happens too much especially in games that are out of hand but this method has been known to work from time to time and it tends to strengthen team bonds as well which can only be a good thing especially for young teams such as ours.

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09-16-2011, 02:59 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Well, as you said, an example like the Crosby concussion is as much his fault as anybody else for leaving himself vulnerable to be hit like that so whether Pittsburgh has enough tough guys or not wouldn't have changed that outcome.
However as i illustrated with the Islanders example, fighting and sticking up for your fellow teammates did serve a positive purpose in that case so there is a place for it in the game in some capacity.

I personally think that trying to send a message happens too much especially in games that are out of hand but this method has been known to work from time to time and it tends to strengthen team bonds as well which can only be a good thing especially for young teams such as ours.
How did he leave himself vulnerable? So now a player is expected to be ready to take a hit even when they don't have the puck and are on the defensive?

Only way I see his situation being his fault is not leaving the game and getting properly evaluated.

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09-16-2011, 03:02 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
I thought, according to you at least, that fighting doesn't send any message whatsoever. I'm confused.
I'm being facetious with that.

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09-16-2011, 03:03 PM
  #183
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I'm being facetious with that.
Even still you're bang on and it is a message and momentum boost for the other team.

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09-16-2011, 03:06 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
How did he leave himself vulnerable? So now a player is expected to be ready to take a hit even when they don't have the puck and are on the defensive?

Only way I see his situation being his fault is not leaving the game and getting properly evaluated.
Crosby was caught admiring the puck and got blindsided as a result so yeah, part of the blame lies with him for not being more protective of himself especially in his case since he is generally a target for cheapshots. Obviously, Steckel gets the majority of the blame for giving the cheapshot but a player is responsible for his own safety as well.

Hall for example needs to keep his head up more if he wants to avoid a similar fate, he is responsible for protecting himself from such hits, not any of the goons or agitiators on the team which is more my point about Crosby and the Pens.

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09-16-2011, 03:06 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Even still you're bang on and it is a message and momentum boost for the other team.
Quinn would blurt out something about allowing the other team honor.

I'm not completely serious about quoting Quinn either.

To me the whole ball of wax needs remolding.

Any team that requires a jump from a fight isn't enough of a team in the first place.

jmo

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09-16-2011, 03:09 PM
  #186
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Its one of the reasons I like RNH. One doesn't have to overhandle the puck as Omark does. With RNH its that quick, deft, lethal precision in cutting through a defence with a split second perfect play.

RNH won't have the puck for long, but he'll be instrumental in the scoring chances.
How about Gagner as well? He hardly ever let's the puck do the work and use his smarts. He allows guys to box him off to the boards and forces a physical puck battle. Which he usually loses and he tends to get banged up his fair share as well.

But I agree RNH is good this way and Eberle as well. They are slippery and use their smarts to avoid these situations.

With Omark he seems to feed off of it and it is part of his game. So far he has made a career out of holding on to the puck down low and fighting off guys. To this point he seems to have been pretty durable doing it.

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09-16-2011, 04:37 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
Fear not, it'll be out of the game soon ... as we've discussed before. Then the stick merchants can run the show.
How different would this be then what is taking place now? People complain incessantly about headshot artists, hacks, and dirty play WHILE NHL enforcement, and fighting, is allowed.

How effective really, is fighting, in eliminating the above?

How about just enforcing rules and calling the game properly and taking the dirty **** out of the game?

But the NHL seems to have little real interest in doing that. In the meantime ineffective notions like fighting as deterrence endure.

How about all orgs just finally unite and say enough is enough?

THAT, is worth fighting for.

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09-16-2011, 04:42 PM
  #188
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How about Gagner as well? He hardly ever let's the puck do the work and use his smarts. He allows guys to box him off to the boards and forces a physical puck battle. Which he usually loses and he tends to get banged up his fair share as well.

But I agree RNH is good this way and Eberle as well. They are slippery and use their smarts to avoid these situations.

With Omark he seems to feed off of it and it is part of his game. So far he has made a career out of holding on to the puck down low and fighting off guys. To this point he seems to have been pretty durable doing it.
Gagner included.

But as I joked earlier Gagner practically has to pass the puck into the net playing with guys like Omark that can't buy a goal. I'd like to see what he could do with a guy that can score dirty goals like Smyth. Gagner has always preferred an in close cycle game. That could be good.

Gagner really hasn't had anything approaching a trigger option to work with so he, like several players on this team wait for perfect open opportunities that rarely materialize.

I'll say one thing, that with the talent of this team steadily improving and with better options out there, all the playmakers on this club will be more revealed one way or another for what they are.

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09-16-2011, 04:48 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
If you know you are going to get it if you get out of line you play differently. It is hard to explain to someone if they never experienced it.

Used to go to PA in the late 80s and everyone was scared to play there. They used to talk about it all the time. It wasn't because Modano was on that team, it was because they had a collection of some of the meanest,nastiest players to play against.

It really changed your attitude going into that rink when you are 16 or 17 years old. Was the game any less physical? Not really but I can tell you it was less dirty,less retalitory because you knew what was coming.
Its an important point and that intimidation does occur. But at what level, and at what age?

A guy that scared of stuff in JR likely won't be scared of the same stuff once he's an adult and being more accustomed to rugged play.

Certainly most antagonizers in the NHL don't back off and get intimidated. Sometimes it even ups their game to another level.

At the pro level its only if antics and intimidation are employed/allowed to the degree that the Philly Flyers did in the 70's that physical intimidation occurs in the NHL.

I don't know that team intimidation really does occur now. If it does who are the meanest teams in todays NHL? The Bruins? Are there truly physically intimidating barns to play in now at the NHL level?

Again I think thats largely a thing of the past and that the game generally has moved on although coaching attitudes persist. Especially in Canada where intimidation worked at one point.

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09-16-2011, 05:43 PM
  #190
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Well really either.

He got totally punked by a guy barely 20 and thats a full 1 and a half yrs younger and that is smaller than him.

Thats like the grade 12 trying to frosh somebody and gets stuffed in a garbage can by the grade 10.

Really this doesn't bode well once Colton ever has to go up against real NHL players. If that ever happens.
A guy gets in a lucky punch, and the haters come out. Typical.

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09-16-2011, 06:20 PM
  #191
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A guy gets in a lucky punch, and the haters come out. Typical.
even more shocking, is that the thread will reach over 200 posts.

About Teubert breaking his nose in a fight.

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09-16-2011, 06:47 PM
  #192
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When does this ever happen?
How about the guy we traded away for Teubert ?
He was pretty effective at getting his point across whenever he dropped the gloves .
And usually smart about when he chose to do so .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_3ZVo7tNCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEa-H...feature=relmfu

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09-16-2011, 07:11 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
How different would this be then what is taking place now? People complain incessantly about headshot artists, hacks, and dirty play WHILE NHL enforcement, and fighting, is allowed.

How effective really, is fighting, in eliminating the above?

How about just enforcing rules and calling the game properly and taking the dirty **** out of the game?

But the NHL seems to have little real interest in doing that. In the meantime ineffective notions like fighting as deterrence endure.

How about all orgs just finally unite and say enough is enough?

THAT, is worth fighting for.
It's because fighting is a reactionary event that occurs after a cheapshot, are you saying you have to "pre-emptively" deter these cheapshots? Because thats kind of what i am getting out of that statement.

Another way to look at it is this...what do you do if a guy (like say Marchment for example) is notorious for going after players knees or heads (like Cooke)..what do you do to a player that does that to one of your players? Do you just have a scrum and words are exchanged? Meanwhile your player could be out for the year and even if the offender gets a suspension, he will more than likely be back in a week or so while your team is without your player (possibly a star player at that) for the rest of the season and possibly not the same player when they do come back, what good is it to basically turn the other cheek and not give the offending player something to actually be worried about because he knows he doesnt have to be accountable for his actions?

Hate to say it, but fighting is a necessary thing in hockey, although i agree with you about the whole 'fighting after a clean hit' bs, imo thats the type of situation where fighting should be taken out of the game, but as far as cheapshots are concerned, you pretty much need fighting as a deterrent, or if not a deterrent, then as a punishment (do the crime, do the time).

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09-16-2011, 08:04 PM
  #194
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Hate to say it, but fighting is a necessary thing in hockey, although i agree with you about the whole 'fighting after a clean hit' bs, imo thats the type of situation where fighting should be taken out of the game, but as far as cheapshots are concerned, you pretty much need fighting as a deterrent, or if not a deterrent, then as a punishment (do the crime, do the time).
Fighting isn't necessary if the NHL mans up and makes it more punitive to do cheapshots on players.

Unfortunately my perspective seems like the bigger pipedream

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Old
09-18-2011, 12:29 PM
  #195
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Bump.

So Teuberts now out with confirmed concussion symptoms which I indicated was the likelihood after watching the meaningless fight. Brownlee weighing in yesterday with exactly what I've said in this thread half a week earlier(yeah what the hell I'll quote Brownlee)

http://oilersnation.com/2011/9/17/co...the-bell-tolls

Maybe as time progresses it becomes clearer that Colton did not act wisely jeopardizing his camp in a totally meaningless fight.

If anything this is an interesting case study in "hive" thought. Most of this board disagrees strongly with what I've put down here. Yet from other sources and the blogosphere comments people are being critical about Teubert's decision and its ramifications.

Indeed as it turns out this perhaps wasn't the best way for Teubert to show the org his best stuff.
Unless he's trying to show how much he fits in on the A list *M*A*S*H* team.

So I'm kind of interested in what the over/under injury timeframe is for people to change their mind on this(which will also likely occur here if he's out long enough)

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09-18-2011, 12:33 PM
  #196
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Hindsight is 20-20.

And if Brownlee is on your side, doesn't that make you automatically wrong?

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09-18-2011, 12:37 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Bump.

So Teuberts now out with confirmed concussion side effects which I indicated was the likelihood after watching the meaningless fight. Brownlee weighing in yesterday with exactly what I've said in this thread half a week earlier(yeah what the hell I'll quote Brownlee)

http://oilersnation.com/2011/9/17/co...the-bell-tolls

Maybe as time progresses it becomes clearer that Colton did not act wisely jeopardizing his camp in a totally meaningless fight.

If anything this is an interesting case study in "hive" thought. Most of this board disagrees strongly with what I've put down here. Yet from other sources and the blogosphere comments people are being critical about Teubert's decision and its ramifications.

Indeed as it turns out this perhaps wasn't the best way for Teubert to show the org his best stuff.
Unless he's trying to show how much he fits in on the A list *M*A*S*H* team.

So I'm kind of interested in what the over/under injury timeframe is for people to change their mind on this(which will also likely occur here if he's out long enough)

Hindsight's nice eh?



you can accuse me of "hive mind" all you want but there's no way you or just about anyone else could have figured out if Teubert's fight was a bad idea until after the fact when he got the short end of the stick with a broken nose and concussion syndromes.

I don't think this thread would have existed if he'd won the fight.

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09-18-2011, 12:41 PM
  #198
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Whatever, Teubert was a high-risk high-reward pickup anyways. If he doesn't pan out, we got some D in our system who are sure to replace any impact he might have had.

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09-18-2011, 12:41 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Bump.

So Teuberts now out with confirmed concussion symptoms which I indicated was the likelihood after watching the meaningless fight. Brownlee weighing in yesterday with exactly what I've said in this thread half a week earlier(yeah what the hell I'll quote Brownlee)

http://oilersnation.com/2011/9/17/co...the-bell-tolls

Maybe as time progresses it becomes clearer that Colton did not act wisely jeopardizing his camp in a totally meaningless fight.

If anything this is an interesting case study in "hive" thought. Most of this board disagrees strongly with what I've put down here. Yet from other sources and the blogosphere comments people are being critical about Teubert's decision and its ramifications.

Indeed as it turns out this perhaps wasn't the best way for Teubert to show the org his best stuff.
Unless he's trying to show how much he fits in on the A list *M*A*S*H* team.

So I'm kind of interested in what the over/under injury timeframe is for people to change their mind on this(which will also likely occur here if he's out long enough)

Bumping because you were "right" based on hindsight?

Awesome!

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09-18-2011, 12:45 PM
  #200
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Hindsight is 20-20.
Except of course its not hindsight. I weighed in before it was a stated concussion. As soon as the fight occurred I thought Teubert was in trouble.

Quote:
And if Brownlee is on your side, doesn't that make you automatically wrong?
Well you got me there. Thus me j/k about it.

Theres a number of other people saying the same thing. Just not here.

My theory on this is that this board reached a point where critical thought and negative takes began to be drowned out and with many so inclined patrons no longer here. But that have gone elsewhere. The selected voices in the wilderness thing.

Its almost as if the Oil have been so bad for so long that theres a want to put shiny linings and benefit of doubt on everything here.

I can understand why people would want to be positive but it usually negates a view on what has actually occured with the team.

Really put it this way. If one of Calgary's top prospects got nailed like that in a stupid fight most of us would be mocking that. I approach things without any such this team or that team veil. I think its actually warranted to be critical of the homeside.

Bias or conditioning?

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