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Tyler Myers signs extension with Buffalo (7 years, $5.5M cap hit)

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Old
09-15-2011, 10:13 AM
  #76
Mit Yarrum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
Both Tavares and Myers signed lengthy deals at 5.5 cap hits...

Who would you rather have and why?
Probably not the thread for that...

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09-15-2011, 10:13 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I think you're misentrepriting what Bettman would want. Cash paid = Cap hit is total insanity. You'd get front or back end loaded contracts which would absolutely make the cap system unusable. Teams would be able to manipulate salaries to an ludicrous level, and the system would break IMO.

Bettman probably would like there to be a way to avoid the lowering of the cap hit for potential "retirement years" (35-40)at a much lower salary (like Hossa's contract for example). However - that isn't the case on the contracts given to Myers.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I'm saying is that the if the cap hit is 5M for 5 years than that would be the players yearly salary for the length of the contract not 10, 5, 5, 2.5, 2.5.

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09-15-2011, 10:14 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
I'm not disagreeing but IMO the value of youth and upside is being overvalued in for these types of players right now.

The way the CBA is setup Pegulla is doing a very "shrewd" move with this signing. That being said is the next CBA going to allow this, and how are they gonna handle these contracts when they do change the rules.

Sabre fans don't take my comments as a knock on Pegulla or Myers, the CBA allows this type of structure.
The new CBA would never be ex post facto.

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09-15-2011, 10:15 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
You're saying he's as good as Duncan Keith? I'm sorry he's not, and you are talking to a guy who is a big Myers fan (was able to watch him play with/against my brother in minor hockey). Myers is a very good defenseman but he's not worth 5.5M at this point in his career.
I don't know what to tell you. This isn't several years ago in juniors. If you don't think he's worth 5.5m now, you're not watching the same games as most other people here. Save the first month and a half this year, the guy has been absolutely great. I am absolutely confident that, paired with Regehr this year, he is going to outperform his salary starting in year 1. This is a great deal for the Sabres.

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09-15-2011, 10:16 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Guys with "retirement" deals have a significantly better cap hit that guys with "normal" contracts. It's extremely misleading to compare them IMO. Keith signed one of those really long deals though where he's got years at the end of the contract where he's getting paid MUCH below the average, which lowers the cap hit.

If I remember correctly, Luongo is probably getting paid $8-10M this year, but his cap hit is $5M because the Canucks (like several other teams) "gamed" the system.
Is it fair to compare a goalie with a "normal" contract to someone like Luongo who will be getting paid $1M per year for something like the last 3-4 years of his contract? Of course not. But that's what you're trying to do with the Myers/Keith comparison.
No one is "gaming the system," it really makes no difference whether the salary is even throughout, or graded.

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09-15-2011, 10:19 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
No one is "gaming the system," it really makes no difference whether the salary is even throughout, or graded.
And that is the problem because it is an abuse of the cap system. If they had to present value the stream of payments over the life of the contract then Myers contract is significantly higher than the amount of the contract. The end result being a lower cap hit than it should be. I am sure the new CBA will cover bonus payments and timing in a fairer fashion

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09-15-2011, 10:21 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I'm saying is that the if the cap hit is 5M for 5 years than that would be the players yearly salary for the length of the contract not 10, 5, 5, 2.5, 2.5.
The owners built this into the past CBA which is why there is specific language to Annual Average Salary.

They knew full well what they were doing in that negotiation.

What I bet they did not expect were the 12-15 year deals that were being given out that had nominal figures at the back end such as the Pronger contract that has 2 years at $525K per season. Or the Kovalchuk that paid him 3.5 million over the last 7 years of his contract (since restructured)

This contract for this youngster, while a bit much for a 2nd contract in the NHL not horrible.

It just really hurts the League and helps the players when looking at comparables while negotiating contracts for other like type players.

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09-15-2011, 10:23 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
No one is "gaming the system," it really makes no difference whether the salary is even throughout, or graded.
Not really.

Deals like this that are front loaded can make them easier to unload on the back end to teams that want to get to the cap floor, but don't want to spend a lot of cash.

If salaries were flat throughout the life of the contract, that game wouldn't be played.

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Old
09-15-2011, 10:23 AM
  #84
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To Tor:

Myers

To Buff:

conditional 7th
Komisarek

Sound good?

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09-15-2011, 10:26 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
The owners built this into the past CBA which is why there is specific language to Annual Average Salary.

They knew full well what they were doing in that negotiation.

What I bet they did not expect were the 12-15 year deals that were being given out that had nominal figures at the back end such as the Pronger contract that has 2 years at $525K per season. Or the Kovalchuk that paid him 3.5 million over the last 7 years of his contract (since restructured)

This contract for this youngster, while a bit much for a 2nd contract in the NHL not horrible.

It just really hurts the League and helps the players when looking at comparables while negotiating contracts for other like type players.
How the owner (let alone their lawyers) didn't see these 12-15 year deals (if they knew what they were doing with the wording of the current CBA) is beyond me.

People need to realize that these are competitive people and it is a dog eat dog world out there, if there is a way to manipulate a rule to help you, you do it. If you dont' want these 12-15 year deals you need to make the rule cut and dry and take away as much leeway and manipulation that the owners can do.

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Old
09-15-2011, 10:26 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
Not a good idea for Buffalo if there is another lock-out. Myers (like Richards) will get paid 10 million for NOT playing hockey. I think this type of insanity is also holding up Doughty and to a lesser extent Schenn. Hopefully L.A. and Toronto do not cave.
Not if there is a lockout and the next CBA season doesn't happen for a while.

Although, I would be surprised if there isn't a new CBA in place to avoid another work stoppage.

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Old
09-15-2011, 10:28 AM
  #87
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Btw, this extension starts next summer. He's still got this year under his previous contract.

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09-15-2011, 10:30 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
And that is the problem because it is an abuse of the cap system. If they had to present value the stream of payments over the life of the contract then Myers contract is significantly higher than the amount of the contract.
So you are saying there is a difference between:

12, 6, 5, 5, 4, 3.5, 3
5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5
3, 3.5, 4, 5, 5, 6, 12

I really don't see how there is a difference, besides a little structuring of how much your team is paying salary, which is inconsequential as far as the cap goes.

People think that GM's are "gaming the system," all they are doing is increasing revenues.

If GMs know they have X amount of dollars to put into the team now, they will pay that now, while paying less later to increase revenues. This has to do with profit, not beating the cap.

The Sabres owner has a lot of cash to spend now, he will make an investment with his cash right now, so he can be in a better financial position for the team later.

This is why you see teams like Montreal and Toronto not doing deals like this, because they know they will have ample revenues coming year, after year, after year.

Unfortunately, most fans cannot comprehend this, and think they are somehow lowering cap hits, which is simply not true.

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09-15-2011, 10:31 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
Not a good idea for Buffalo if there is another lock-out. Myers (like Richards) will get paid 10 million for NOT playing hockey. I think this type of insanity is also holding up Doughty and to a lesser extent Schenn. Hopefully L.A. and Toronto do not cave.
Doesn't Pegula have very very deep pockets though? This offseason suggests that he wants to win a cup very bably and is willing to do whatever he can to achieve that goal.

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09-15-2011, 10:31 AM
  #90
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Not if there is a lockout and the next CBA season doesn't happen for a while.

Although, I would be surprised if there isn't a new CBA in place to avoid another work stoppage.
I am under the impression that the 10 million bonus (for Richards and Myers) is payable to the player prior to the NHL legalling calling a lock-out which means they get paid whether there is a season or not. If true this is a classic case of owners shooting themselves in the foot as it diminishes the financial threat of a lock-out.

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09-15-2011, 10:31 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Not really.

Deals like this that are front loaded can make them easier to unload on the back end to teams that want to get to the cap floor, but don't want to spend a lot of cash.

If salaries were flat throughout the life of the contract, that game wouldn't be played.
And we still haven't really seen any real concrete evidence to back up this suggestion.

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09-15-2011, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
So you are saying there is a difference between:

12, 6, 5, 5, 4, 3.5, 3
5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5, 5.5
3, 3.5, 4, 5, 5, 6, 12

I really don't see how there is a difference, besides a little structuring of how much your team is paying salary, which is inconsequential as far as the cap goes.

People think that GM's are "gaming the system," all they are doing is increasing revenues.

If GMs know they have X amount of dollars to put into the team now, they will pay that now, while paying less later to increase revenues. This has to do with profit, not beating the cap.

The Sabres owner has a lot of cash to spend now, he will make an investment with his cash right now, so he can be in a better financial position for the team later.

This is why you see teams like Montreal and Toronto not doing deals like this, because they know they will have ample revenues coming year, after year, after year.

Unfortunately, most fans cannot comprehend this, and think they are somehow lowering cap hits, which is simply not true.
Suggest you read up on the power of compound interest.

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09-15-2011, 10:35 AM
  #93
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Doesn't Pegula have very very deep pockets though? This offseason suggests that he wants to win a cup very bably and is willing to do whatever he can to achieve that goal.
Yes he does have very deep pockets but I don't know what that has to do with anything I said.

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09-15-2011, 10:35 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
And we still haven't really seen any real concrete evidence to back up this suggestion.
To be fair, we haven't really seen a bunch of these front loaded contracts enter those cheap years either.

Absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE this deal. Myers is gonna be worth every penny of that deal.

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09-15-2011, 10:38 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
Suggest you read up on the power of compound interest.
We are talking about people that already have upwards of 100s of millions of dollars here.

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09-15-2011, 10:38 AM
  #96
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We are talking about people that already have upwards of 100s of millions of dollars here.
Your completely missing my point !!!

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09-15-2011, 10:41 AM
  #97
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Gotta assume he'll be better than last year from now on, so it's a solid contract. Was not a fan of his play at all last year, though.

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09-15-2011, 10:42 AM
  #98
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Your completely missing my point !!!
I am really not. They would make more of a return off the team in a few years if they structure a lot of their contracts this way, and it is successful, than they would off interest rates. Interests rates are nothing right now, GICs are yielding like 2.5%.

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09-15-2011, 10:43 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
No one is "gaming the system," it really makes no difference whether the salary is even throughout, or graded.
So you don't think that the Hossa or Luongo deals are "gaming the system"? Do you really expect both players to play the last 3-4 years of those contracts? I sure don't.

I agree that Myers contract is NOT gaming the system. The Sabres front loaded the deal from a net present value perspective to maximize the value for Myers.

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09-15-2011, 10:45 AM
  #100
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Brutal deal for Myers. Why does he not get a 10 million dollar signing bonus every year instead of only one?

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