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Rangers Training Camp Discussion (9/30: Sauer returns to practice; Kolarik tears ACL)

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Old
09-21-2011, 08:53 AM
  #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prustqvist24 View Post
While I don't think pairing MDZ with a better partner is a cure-all by any means and he will still have to improve his decision making and defensive end play, sometimes pairing a raw or undisciplined offensive d-man with a steady/stay at home partner enables the puck mover to "do his thing" without being exposed nearly as often, which helps to both make him less of a liability AND improve his confidence (because they don't feel 'scared' of sacrificing defensive coverage in favor of offensive play), thus improving the offensive output.

It takes time for some trust/comfort to develop, where the more defensive d-man learns to anticipate the offensive player's tendencies and the offensive d-man learns to count on his partner (this can go two ways: with two young players who both have a potentially long future with the team, it can develop into a 'permanent' pairing where the two play off of one another or, with a young d-man simply being paired this way because his game is too incomplete to avoid his own lapses, the other player becomes a 'crutch' and, while it's viable in the short-run, it can hamper the offensive player's development in rounding out their own game).

Right now, if MDZ is going to play in the NHL, he needs to play with a very steady, mostly defensive oriented, preferably right handed d-man. Sauer (Girardi, but he won't be wasted making up for MDZ's faults) would be ideal for now. Best case scenario, if MDZ and Erixon were to show something in the pre-season, our best pairings would probably look like (even though most people have McD/Sauer penciled in for the second pairing):

Staal - Girardi (go-to pairing, eats minutes, plays all situations)
MDZ - Sauer (2a pairing)
McD - Erixon (2b pairing)

I wish Erixon was right handed, but it's not the worst thing in the world to have two lefties on a pairing. Plenty of teams in the NHL have 4-5 left handed d-men on their nightly roster. With the second and third pairings playing virtually equal time, you get a decent mix of skill/responsibility and have MDZ and Erixon as available options on the PP. I only put MDZ/Sauer above McD/Erixon because McD only has 40 games of NHL experience and Erixon is a rook while Sauer is a little older/more experienced and MDZ, while probably the weakest overall right now, at least has ~120 games in the NHL. I would actually anticipate McD/Erixon being the better pairing with good defense and some surprising puck moving ability as well. Erixon could have the defensive ability to cover for MDZ, but he has his own ability to jump into the offense, albeit quietly, and I would think being paired with MDZ would not only take away from that, but create a situation where a good, but inexperienced rookie is exposed more often than would be ideal because of his offensive minded partner. I wouldn't want to have Erixon and MDZ paired together at ES and so they couldn't make up the bottom pairing together, for me. It would be MDZ/Gilroy all over again, even if Erixon is better than Gilroy.
Good post.

And I agree.

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Erixon
Del Zotto-Sauer

Makes a lot of sense.

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09-21-2011, 09:06 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i thought i was clear too

nobody knows if the bolded is true yet...he's 20.

he's currently their best option for a puck moving defenseman. They're willing to deal with some growing pains in the process of his development because guys who play that role well dont grow on trees and replacing him from the outside isn't going to be cheap/easy

if he goes to the A to develope a little more, while unfortunate, it maybe the right decision for his developement. However,i firmly believe that we wont be a real contender until we have him on the roster and playing well (or a suitable replacement which is not currently in this camp)

so in other words, replacing him with a more stable conservative player to play 3rd pairing minutes MIGHT win you an extra game or two in reality, but the effects of having a real puck moving dman will change and improve your entire team's offensive product
Well you were clear that you missed a lot of what I was saying which forced me to clarify. Obviously I'm going based off of what he did last year I don't have a crystal ball to say MDZ won't get his game back ...I SAID if he can get his game back can do what he did as a rookie he'd have his spot back. Again the same response to the end of your post he has to be that PMD or else the point is moot. If he is not that PMD just like last year than we don't even have a choice in the matter a better overall D man will be with us and MDZ will hopefully find his game in the AHL.

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09-21-2011, 09:16 AM
  #503
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No Richards in practice due to groin.

Newbury centering Wolski and Gaborik. -Gross.

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09-21-2011, 09:19 AM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
No Richards in practice due to groin.

Newbury centering Wolski and Gaborik. -Gross.
Is that you saying "gross" or as in Andrew Gross said it....

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09-21-2011, 09:52 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
Torts on #NYR prospects: "We want to, & have to, infuse more youth into the lineup"; says it would be disappointment if no kids made team
Sounds to me like a shot across the bow for Avery and EC, really the only 2 vets on the bubble IMO

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09-21-2011, 09:54 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Is that you saying "gross" or as in Andrew Gross said it....
Lol, beat me to it.

Random thought:

THE ABC LINE:

Boyle Anisimov Callahan

Leaving the rest as possibly:

Dubinsky Richards Gaborik
Fedotenko Stepan Zuccarello
Avery Rupp Prust

Wolski as the odd man out which right now seems unlikely, but is not all that unlikely as the season progresses and wolski's inconsistency plagues him as it has throughout his career.

But forget about the rest of the lineup for now. My real point was just that Boyle-Anisimov-Callahan could be a very hard line to play against in all three zones.

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09-21-2011, 10:18 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
No Richards in practice due to groin.

Newbury centering Wolski and Gaborik. -Gross.
Must be contagious.

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Old
09-21-2011, 10:41 AM
  #508
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Must be contagious.
There have been way to many precautionary injuries so far in training camp.

Its unsettling, even if it could just be nothing.

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09-21-2011, 11:05 AM
  #509
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We're gonna need that veteran depth, with the likely injuries we'll have Christensen and Avery might get 40+ games apiece.

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09-21-2011, 11:10 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
We're gonna need that veteran depth, with the likely injuries we'll have Christensen and Avery might get 40+ games apiece.
I would be okay with holding onto (1) of them. But not both. That's why players like Weise, Hagelin, Bourque, Thoresson, Kolarik, etc. are all in Hartford. For possible injuries.

And there are always players available during the season if there is ever that big of a need.

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09-21-2011, 11:14 AM
  #511
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I'd like to see Weise have a nice camp and grab the third line RW spot with Fedotenko and Stepan. I think he'd be a better fit there potentially then Zuccarello. (For a 2 way, checking line)

It depends on how much faith our FO has in the Hartford forward depth. I'm not as optimistic about some. We went into the regular season with 3 extra skaters last season, and by the all star break we had Chad Kolarik on the 2nd line.

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09-21-2011, 11:32 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
I'd like to see Weise have a nice camp and grab the third line RW spot with Fedotenko and Stepan. I think he'd be a better fit there potentially then Zuccarello. (For a 2 way, checking line)

It depends on how much faith our FO has in the Hartford forward depth. I'm not as optimistic about some. We went into the regular season with 3 extra skaters last season, and by the all star break we had Chad Kolarik on the 2nd line.
Yeah, I see your point. I just doubt Torts wants to hold onto (3) extras going into the season. Those 4-5 game injury call-ups are a good way for both the coaching staff and the players to become more accustomed to the work those players need to put in moving forward.

I would not be opposed to seeing both Avery and Christensen gone and having Weise as the extra. He's a big, hard-working grinder. Doesn't he also have to go through waivers to go back down? I am sure someone will pick him up for nothing....

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Old
09-21-2011, 11:37 AM
  #513
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Didn't Gaborik pretty much sit out the whole training camp his first season here? or was that last year? or maybe it didn't happen at all, I can't remember. I thought I remember him playing in like no exhibition games as a precaution.

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09-21-2011, 11:44 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Stepan Up View Post
Didn't Gaborik pretty much sit out the whole training camp his first season here? or was that last year? or maybe it didn't happen at all, I can't remember. I thought I remember him playing in like no exhibition games as a precaution.
yes iirc, it was his first season in NY.

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09-21-2011, 12:00 PM
  #515
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Richards now hurting a bit?

Sorry if it's a bit of an over reaction, I don't mean it to be, but with all these guys with injuries (small or big): bad luck? Or... Torts camp is too much of a PITA?

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09-21-2011, 12:04 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Richards now hurting a bit?

Sorry if it's a bit of an over reaction, I don't mean it to be, but with all these guys with injuries (small or big): bad luck? Or... Torts camp is too much of a PITA?
aaaaaand there it is.

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09-21-2011, 12:06 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
aaaaaand there it is.
It's not like it is any kind of surprise.....

They know what is coming. Why is it that when Gaborik or Richards have a sore groin and we don't hear about Callahan or Rupp or Boyle complaining we all assume its on Torts?

Maybe Richards should have trained harder in the off-season? Or maybe they just feel he doesn't have to skate today.

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09-21-2011, 12:23 PM
  #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Richards now hurting a bit?

Sorry if it's a bit of an over reaction, I don't mean it to be, but with all these guys with injuries (small or big): bad luck? Or... Torts camp is too much of a PITA?
I think they just need to get their bodies back into game shape.... Anyone who has ever lifted weights, and then stopped for awhile, and resumed, will tell you that their muscles get incredibly sore and hurt for a few days once they resume lifting... I'm sure these guys were training hard in the off-season, but Torts camp is reportedly really grueling and this hard skating is probably just a bit of a shock to their system initially....

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09-21-2011, 12:27 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
It's not like it is any kind of surprise.....

They know what is coming. Why is it that when Gaborik or Richards have a sore groin and we don't hear about Callahan or Rupp or Boyle complaining we all assume its on Torts?

Maybe Richards should have trained harder in the off-season? Or maybe they just feel he doesn't have to skate today.
Richards is older, and his recovery time probably isn't as good as it used to be... I wouldn't read too much into it. As far as Gaborik goes, well we all know his history and they try to take precautions. After all, they are our 1st line star players!

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09-21-2011, 12:28 PM
  #520
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Brad Richards Tweaks Groin, But is OK
http://nhlhotstove.com/brad-richards...oin-but-is-ok/

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09-21-2011, 12:28 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I think they just need to get their bodies back into game shape.... Anyone who has ever lifted weights, and then stopped for awhile, and resumed, will tell you that their muscles get incredibly sore and hurt for a few days once they resume lifting... I'm sure these guys were training hard in the off-season, but Torts camp is reportedly really grueling and this hard skating is probably just a bit of a shock to their system initially....
You hit the nail on the head

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Old
09-21-2011, 12:32 PM
  #522
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Quote:
Tortorella said Richards will likely skate tmrw; also said he'd like to get him into Friday's pre-season game against the Devils in NJ
https://twitter.com/#!/KatieStrangES...47817824190464

Quote:
Richards re groin: "Nothing alarming, that's for sure."
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...49095702790145

Quote:
Richards has had groin issues in previous training camps. "This time of year it's always a battle to stay on top of it. Nothing alarming."
https://twitter.com/#!/KatieStrangES...49447210631168

Staal skated today in practice

Quote:
Torts: Marc Staal "seems fine" today
https://twitter.com/#!/stevezipay/st...48496106061824

Torts talked about the European trip

Quote:
Rangers' plan is to bring 6 lines, 5 D pairs and 3 goalies on trip to Europe. Will depart immediately after next Mon night game in Philly.
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...50651802173441

Quote:
Tortorella says tonight's game important for those "needing to show something to keep going." Asked if that applies to Christensen and Avery
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...49437924458496

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(cont) asked if that applies to Christensen and Avery, Tortorella answers, "Yes...yes."
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...49572167344128

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09-21-2011, 12:32 PM
  #523
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You hit the nail on the head
Thanks, great avatar by the way, lol...

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Old
09-21-2011, 12:42 PM
  #524
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Not to be a downer because I know quite a few people like Avery, but what if the Rangers let Christensen AND Avery go and kept John Mitchell and Weise with the Rangers? That would be the cheapest way to go and both can play if need be.

They would still have Newbury, Kolarik, Hagelin/MZA, Bourque all down in the AHL.....

I guess I just feel that the Rangers have enough depth in terms of forwards in Hartford to not have to waste close to 3 million on (2) players who will not play on most nights.

By all accounts, Mitchell has played very well in Camp.

Quote:
Several other players battling for spots on the roster will be heading to Albany, as well, including defenseman Brendan Bell, and forwards John Mitchell (who has looked very good in the training camp scrimmages) and Dale Weise.
http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/83...-season-opener

If someone in the top-6 gets hurt they will just promote from the lower lines like Rupp or Boyle or Stepan and fill their spot with a Mitchell or Weise.

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan
Fedotenko-Stepan-MZA
Rupp-Boyle-Prust
Mitchell, Weise

Avery - 1.9375
Christensen - .925

Weise - .605
Mitchell - .65

As you get towards the end of the season, that extra 1.8 million accrues and becomes much more if they want to add a significant salary.

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Old
09-21-2011, 12:43 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
We're gonna need that veteran depth, with the likely injuries we'll have Christensen and Avery might get 40+ games apiece.
I agree one million %.

If Richards misses any time at all, the only center we have that had any chemistry with Gaborik is Christensen. We need to keep him as insurance. Throwing him away would be short sighted.

If one of the two of Christen and Avery need to be cut loose, it had to be Avery. He doesn't provide anything really that other guys can.

Christensen is needed in case Richards goes down with injury.

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