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Do you think Niedermeyer is worth $7 million?

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Old
08-18-2004, 02:47 PM
  #26
in the hall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseydevil
Yes..I chose to be Ignorant... ...your point just makes no sense to me...Your Niedermayer to Gonchar comparison holds no water..NONE..Niedermayer has better skating ability, stickhandling ability, plays better defense and makes far superior outlet passes...Gonchar has a better shot from the point and is a better PP Qb...

I stil don't understand how skill and talent are two different things...
you know it's really amazing how some people are, they aren't satisfied unless they hear it their way

Niedermayer does not have the shot, stickhandling, passing, offensive skillset and overall upside that gonchar has.. yes he can skate better but the rest you said is NOT SKILL but game play - he maximizes his skills more, and is smarter, more intangible, ultimately making him being better then Gonchar as a player

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08-18-2004, 02:50 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bob Froese
really? how do u figure that, to me he's lucky he got 7mill. he is nothing close to what lidstrom is and i would rather much have pronger or lidstrom than neidermeyer. ANYDAY. now that everyone says he is a 9 mkillion dollar a year player, take a look at those stats,he is just basically a 50 point a year player. not deserving more than 6 mill per, ok maybe he has leadership quality's but, thats not what he gets paid for . he gets paid to produce and looking at those #'s he is no where near a 9mill a season guy. far from it.
the only thing that is respectable or good about those stats are his over all plus/minus,which is excellent.
There is this thing called defense.

And 50 points for a defenseman today is HUGE.

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08-18-2004, 03:29 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
you know it's really amazing how some people are, they aren't satisfied unless they hear it their way

Niedermayer does not have the shot, stickhandling, passing, offensive skillset and overall upside that gonchar has.. yes he can skate better but the rest you said is NOT SKILL but game play - he maximizes his skills more, and is smarter, more intangible, ultimately making him being better then Gonchar as a player
IMO niedermayer is the better stickhandler and passer, but yeah gonchar does have a much better shot

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08-18-2004, 04:01 PM
  #29
Bob Froese
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Originally Posted by gkrangers
There is this thing called defense.

And 50 points for a defenseman today is HUGE.
ok first off 50 pts IS'NT HUGE, your off about that, and 50pts is not worth 9 mill per year. and also u are saying because he plays good defense he deserves 9 mill per year so does scott stevens and bredan witt and greg devries , so u are saying they are 9 mill a season players to, they are excellent defensively. u are making it sound like he deserves 9 mill a season because he puts up ok #'s and plays good defense, so do a ton of other defenseman in the league , and they are not worth 9 mill so like i said why is niedeermeyer, and pronger is no 9 or 10 mill a season player , what ever it is he makes. and i dont know how he got what he did.

one last thing neidermeyer turned down 5 years at 8 mill per to sign for one year at 7, i xont know who he thinks he is but he is no lidstrom thats a fact or a leetch or bourque those guys are worth big money when on there game.niederm,eyer on his game is a 50 point player. go look at leetch's stats borques stats and macinnis stats , in there earky 30's mid 20's those guys are 9 mill s season, not nidermeyer and his cheezy 50 pointys a season.

and if the devs didnt sign him for 7 mill or what ever it is he wants or thinks he can get, non one would pay that much for him imo. maybe 6-65.5 tops no more than that. gonchar is way more offensively gifted better shot and is a decent skater, but whatever, to me niedermeyer is a 5 mill -6 mill tops a year.

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Old
08-18-2004, 05:57 PM
  #30
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I dunno i think we got Nylander pretty cheap. The way things are going, I think we should have offered him 6 million a year and stock in cablevision.

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08-18-2004, 07:09 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Froese
ok first off 50 pts IS'NT HUGE, your off about that, and 50pts is not worth 9 mill per year. and also u are saying because he plays good defense he deserves 9 mill per year so does scott stevens and bredan witt and greg devries , so u are saying they are 9 mill a season players to, they are excellent defensively. u are making it sound like he deserves 9 mill a season because he puts up ok #'s and plays good defense, so do a ton of other defenseman in the league , and they are not worth 9 mill so like i said why is niedeermeyer, and pronger is no 9 or 10 mill a season player , what ever it is he makes. and i dont know how he got what he did.

one last thing neidermeyer turned down 5 years at 8 mill per to sign for one year at 7, i xont know who he thinks he is but he is no lidstrom thats a fact or a leetch or bourque those guys are worth big money when on there game.niederm,eyer on his game is a 50 point player. go look at leetch's stats borques stats and macinnis stats , in there earky 30's mid 20's those guys are 9 mill s season, not nidermeyer and his cheezy 50 pointys a season.

and if the devs didnt sign him for 7 mill or what ever it is he wants or thinks he can get, non one would pay that much for him imo. maybe 6-65.5 tops no more than that. gonchar is way more offensively gifted better shot and is a decent skater, but whatever, to me niedermeyer is a 5 mill -6 mill tops a year.
yeah but alot of the money was deffered he didn't want that because there is no one knows if the devils will even be around long enough to pay him when hes done that was the big problem

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08-18-2004, 07:29 PM
  #32
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I do have to say that much, I don't think he is on the level of a Lidstrom or a Pronger to be perfectly honest with you.

Not to underrate him, but he seems as more a tweener to me. He's that inbetween stage of where the Leetch, Chelios, Lidstrom, and some others are getting older and entering their twilight and when the next generation of stars isnt quite there yet.

That's not to take anything away from him, but he's not quite on that ELITE pleateau. He's one level down.

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Old
08-18-2004, 08:44 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KFC
yeah but alot of the money was deffered he didn't want that because there is no one knows if the devils will even be around long enough to pay him when hes done that was the big problem
duh-lete

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Old
08-18-2004, 09:39 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I do have to say that much, I don't think he is on the level of a Lidstrom or a Pronger to be perfectly honest with you.

Not to underrate him, but he seems as more a tweener to me. He's that inbetween stage of where the Leetch, Chelios, Lidstrom, and some others are getting older and entering their twilight and when the next generation of stars isnt quite there yet.

That's not to take anything away from him, but he's not quite on that ELITE pleateau. He's one level down.

Exactly! While I think he's a very solid d-man, I simply don't think he's an elite defenseman. He is an above average d-man who plays with a very good goalie behind him.

And jerrydevil - how are you man? I post as ak27 on the nyrcafe. Usually I like your posts and sometimes I even commit the cardinal sin of agreeing with a devils' fan but this time I think you've got a touch of the jingoism Niermayer is good but he's not $7 million good.

Now I know that what I'm about to say is EXTREMELY fuzzy math but consider this - the NHL posted a 70 million dollar profit last year. If a player the caliber of Niedermayer deserves $7 million per year then, ostensibly, the NHL can afford to pay 10 Niedermayers their salary raises. LOL. I know this isn't entirely accurate but it makes one keep in mind the completely ******** economics that govern our game....


Last edited by CrookedRain: 08-18-2004 at 09:47 PM.
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Old
08-19-2004, 01:59 AM
  #35
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To cut to the point, Niedermayer right now is a top 3 defensemen in this league, he has been a solid playoff performer for a decade, and when it is all said and done he WILL be a hall of famer. Considering Pronger and Lidstrom make alot more and are NOT alot better(especially Pronger who only has one Norris and has never had the playoff success Niedermayer does), Niedermayer is a bargain. If the Devils can sign him to a multi-year deal at 8 million per, I feel they are very fortunate.

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08-19-2004, 04:45 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I do have to say that much, I don't think he is on the level of a Lidstrom or a Pronger to be perfectly honest with you.

Not to underrate him, but he seems as more a tweener to me. He's that inbetween stage of where the Leetch, Chelios, Lidstrom, and some others are getting older and entering their twilight and when the next generation of stars isnt quite there yet.

That's not to take anything away from him, but he's not quite on that ELITE pleateau. He's one level down.
basically what i said, i agree absolutley

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08-19-2004, 04:52 PM
  #37
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No one is worth that... especially not a guy who heads to arbitration to get more money with a lockout hovering on the horizon. Shows how much Niedermayer is contributing to the welfare of the NHL. That makes me wanna puke.

He's made MILLIONS all his career, but I guess it's never enough. Just for this, I hope no team signs him for whenever next season is. :mad:

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08-19-2004, 05:04 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
No one is worth that... especially not a guy who heads to arbitration to get more money with a lockout hovering on the horizon. Shows how much Niedermayer is contributing to the welfare of the NHL. That makes me wanna puke.

He's made MILLIONS all his career, but I guess it's never enough. Just for this, I hope no team signs him for whenever next season is. :mad:
your logic is so flawed...having an independent arbitrator decide your salary for the next year does not hurt the welfare of the NHL...

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08-19-2004, 05:07 PM
  #39
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If he stands by that decision, and you guys sign him, yeah it does hurt the NHL... don't tell me my logic is flawed just 'cause you don't agree.

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08-19-2004, 05:12 PM
  #40
jerseydevil
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
If he stands by that decision, and you guys sign him, yeah it does hurt the NHL... don't tell me my logic is flawed just 'cause you don't agree.
please explain how this hurts the NHL...it is a system designed to be fair to both the owners and players..

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08-19-2004, 05:15 PM
  #41
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IMO he is worth it. He is one of the elite D man and he showed that this past season.

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Old
08-19-2004, 05:22 PM
  #42
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OK, I'm not an expert here, if that's what you meant... as far as I know, arbitration sets a price tag for a player... right? Now, that player can ask for less, but why would he? Plus with 7 being the guidline amount, it won't venture too far even if he does decrease his demand... SO, if you were to sign him, he'd only be hurting the NHL's economic status.

Don't think it's anti-NJD bias, because Jagr disgusts me also... but, he made that deal at a time when this situation was unforseeable.

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08-19-2004, 05:28 PM
  #43
Bob Froese
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Originally Posted by Y2J129
IMO he is worth it. He is one of the elite D man and he showed that this past season.
i will rephrase that quote a bit for u....

"IMO he is not worth 7 mill maybe 5-6 thats all. He is one of the better D men and he showed that this past season"

that looks to be a lttle more realistic

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08-19-2004, 05:29 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
OK, I'm not an expert here, if that's what you meant... as far as I know, arbitration sets a price tag for a player... right? Now, that player can ask for less, but why would he? Plus with 7 being the guidline amount, it won't venture too far even if he does decrease his demand... SO, if you were to sign him, he'd only be hurting the NHL's economic status.

Don't think it's anti-NJD bias, because Jagr disgusts me also... but, he made that deal at a time when this situation was unforseeable.
i don't think your argument was anti-nj...i think that arbitration is the simplest form of negotiation where both sides argue their point and an independent person decides where he thinks the salary should fall. I think it's great for the NHL and the players and avoids most lengthy holdouts. If the owners don't like the decision they are allowed to walk away from the commitment. Why would Nieds ever decrease his demand especially with the Blues offering Pronger 10 million...7 million is good price tag for one of the best d men in the league.

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08-19-2004, 05:36 PM
  #45
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Well then I guess I stand corrected... I guess that was the socialist in me coming out! I just feel that salaries should not exceed 5 million, but that problem is ubiquitous in the world of sports. I was just venting... I really need to learn to think before I post! At least we're not like baseball!

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08-19-2004, 08:00 PM
  #46
jerseydevil
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
Well then I guess I stand corrected... I guess that was the socialist in me coming out! I just feel that salaries should not exceed 5 million, but that problem is ubiquitous in the world of sports. I was just venting... I really need to learn to think before I post! At least we're not like baseball!
i don't think anyone would disagree that salaries are geting out of control...

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