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Old
09-17-2011, 05:01 PM
  #26
Wheatking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest View Post
If you listen to this entire interview, if nothing else, it comes off more as a calling out of Gagner.

Horc spoke about the value of adding Belanger...but....he went on to point out the neccesity of having THREE solid centres...and...of course...he's 100% correct.
I wouldn't say he was calling out Gagner. It's just well known that Gagner isn't a player you're going to look to when you need a faceoff win.

The good news is that Brule is our 4th line center we should have three players that can win about 50% of their draws.

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09-17-2011, 05:42 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
I wouldn't say he was calling out Gagner. It's just well known that Gagner isn't a player you're going to look to when you need a faceoff win.

The good news is that Brule is our 4th line center we should have three players that can win about 50% of their draws.
If your talking about Horc, Gags and Brule, i'm assuming you mean combined?

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09-17-2011, 05:46 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The comments don't mean anything to me and I'm fine with what got stated. So I don't agree with the OP premise.

On the other hand I make no bones in stating that Horcoff is the captain of a very poor club and a task he's well designed and setup for. He's the quintessential highly paid, well looked after yesman in an org and a guy that wouldn't counter anything the org did or had to say if this was a trainwreck heading towards a broken trestle and a cliff..My take is he's got the job for 2 more seasons at which point I think we should find somebody better suited.

A guy thats not able to lead the team in any capacity on the ice has a hard time leading the club as a captain. We saw that with Moreau. "I'm your captain, I suck as a hockey player in every way, do as I say, not as I play, oh nevermind.."

A skilled team needs a captain with some level of skill. jmo.

You also forgot to mention it's also not his job to bring in other players or set the lines or system up, not to mention the development, farm system and medical staff. His job is to play hockey, and as captain, set an example for the other players and be a type of middle man for player/coaching issues if need be. If he wants to trash the org for whatever, he may have some points, but as an employee, he can do it discriminately behind closed doors with management and with some thoughtful alternatives if anyone wants to listen. Towing the company line doesn't mean your a yes man necessarily. Maybe he actually believes in what they're doing.

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09-17-2011, 05:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
Give me a break. There is nothing wrong with what he said.
This.

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09-17-2011, 05:59 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
If your talking about Horc, Gags and Brule, i'm assuming you mean combined?
Belanger: 55.3%
Horcoff: 48.3%
Brule: 53.3%

Horcoff went 393-420 last season so that 1.7% is kind of splitting hairs.

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Old
09-17-2011, 06:03 PM
  #31
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There is nothing wrong with what he said ,I find people always use him as a scapegoat way too much here give the guy a break it's a clean slate ,new season and let's see where things go.Quit being so nit picky on everything this guy says and does.

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Old
09-17-2011, 06:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
I think you're looking for something that isn't there. He's being honest. Everything he said was correct. Is he supposed to insult our intelligence just because he's a member of the team? I can't stand those typical hockey player answers where everything is butterflies and rainbows.

His wife cooks the majority of their pregame meals...but yeah, terrible captain
^^This

He's basically saying that it will be easier for everyone if he's not taking 85% (bit of an over exaggeration i know, but...) of the faceoffs in a game due to being the best option we had. His numbers are going to improve this season over last because of it (book it). The guy simply isn't going to be running ragged as much due to the team having more than one option to take an important face off.

Simple logic really...I fail to see how Beerfish misunderstood what he was saying.

As far as the sophomore players are concerned - statistically he's right too. Nothing wrong with calling an apple an apple. Since when did you want it otherwise Beerfish?

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Old
09-17-2011, 07:35 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
You also forgot to mention it's also not his job to bring in other players or set the lines or system up, not to mention the development, farm system and medical staff. His job is to play hockey, and as captain, set an example for the other players and be a type of middle man for player/coaching issues if need be. If he wants to trash the org for whatever, he may have some points, but as an employee, he can do it discriminately behind closed doors with management and with some thoughtful alternatives if anyone wants to listen. Towing the company line doesn't mean your a yes man necessarily. Maybe he actually believes in what they're doing.
You trying to tell me he SHOULD have believed in what this club was doing post 05-06?

Seriously?

Horcoff's "belief" was bought. I'm sure he's embarassed sometimes looking over at Smyth knowing he got the overpay dough here and that Smyth had to go elsewhere for it.

Any "belief" Horc had in the club should've dissolved once they signed his, or Khabi's or Sourays ridiculous contracts.

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Old
09-17-2011, 07:56 PM
  #34
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Horcoff needs to up his game, but I see zero wrong with those statements.

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Old
09-17-2011, 08:03 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Belanger: 55.3%
Horcoff: 48.3%
Brule: 53.3%

Horcoff went 393-420 last season so that 1.7% is kind of splitting hairs.
hence the sarcasm icon, i put that in my post specifically so i wouldnt get this type of response...didnt work i guess

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Old
09-17-2011, 08:18 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Horcoff needs to up his game, but I see zero wrong with those statements.
He's missed too much time in the past couple years. His skating was looking really strong at the start of last year...he just needed to play games....and then that all went out the window when he got hurt again.

I don't think he needs to up his game. I'd go for just getting back to his old self by NOT missing big chunks of games. That would be sufficient.

Its Gagner that has to get his game 'up' a level!

I liked what Renney said on Gagner a few weeks ago: "Man up."

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Old
09-17-2011, 08:19 PM
  #37
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While Horcoff may not be my ideal player, I've got no issues with him being the captain of the Oilers (at least not for now).

For everyone who wants to bring in Gary Roberts as a fitness consultant for the kids, have you actually seen Horcoff? The guy is a complete diet and gym rat, which is why he regularly destroys the rest of the team during the annual fitness testing.

If Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi and RNH can pick up on his work habits, the team will be much better for it.

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Old
09-17-2011, 08:41 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Threads like these really distinguish the people who know what they're talking about, and the people who have a completely irrational hatred of a particular player/management figure.
So just to be clear, you totally agree with what Horcoff said, correct? You feel that it should be made clear that one or more of our top three players will probably have a sophomore slump. You also feel that a player we have been paying a truck load of money to over the past few years (and 4 more) is right to justify his poor performance last year by talking about how hard it is to win faceoffs and play all the tough minutes.

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Old
09-17-2011, 08:44 PM
  #39
Beerfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
I think you're looking for something that isn't there. He's being honest. Everything he said was correct. Is he supposed to insult our intelligence just because he's a member of the team? I can't stand those typical hockey player answers where everything is butterflies and rainbows.

His wife cooks the majority of their pregame meals...but yeah, terrible captain
Here is the problem, it's okay to be brutally honest when talking about the young players and getting another faceoff guy but not once have i ever heard this guy be accountable for massivley under performing his contract.

If he came out at the beginning and said, 'I had a poor year the last few years, I have to do better on offense and must be an over 50% faceoff guy, and then talk about the other things perhaps. He tries to act like a leader with cred but he really doesn't have any other than being with the team for quite a few years.

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Old
09-17-2011, 08:47 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest View Post
If you listen to this entire interview, if nothing else, it comes off more as a calling out of Gagner.

Horc spoke about the value of adding Belanger...but....he went on to point out the neccesity of having THREE solid centres...and...of course...he's 100% correct.
Horc calling out anyone is an atrocity when he's stunk for most of the last two years. He has zero cred to call anyone out.

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Old
09-17-2011, 09:42 PM
  #41
Bryanbryoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Here is the problem, it's okay to be brutally honest when talking about the young players and getting another faceoff guy but not once have i ever heard this guy be accountable for massivley under performing his contract.

If he came out at the beginning and said, 'I had a poor year the last few years, I have to do better on offense and must be an over 50% faceoff guy, and then talk about the other things perhaps. He tries to act like a leader with cred but he really doesn't have any other than being with the team for quite a few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Horc calling out anyone is an atrocity when he's stunk for most of the last two years. He has zero cred to call anyone out.
This I can agree with. That said he works hard off the ice and maybe he just flat out isn't all that good?

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Old
09-17-2011, 10:26 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You trying to tell me he SHOULD have believed in what this club was doing post 05-06?

Seriously?

Horcoff's "belief" was bought. I'm sure he's embarassed sometimes looking over at Smyth knowing he got the overpay dough here and that Smyth had to go elsewhere for it.

Any "belief" Horc had in the club should've dissolved once they signed his, or Khabi's or Sourays ridiculous contracts.
Let's say this was the case. On what planet is it a good idea to voice that to the media? Seriously.

If your boss came to you tomorrow, and not you specifically Replacement I mean this in a general sense, and offered you a 300% raise (arbitrary #) on your annual salary, to keep doing the job you already do, who's going to say no?

If anybody should be embarassed about Horcoff's overpay its Lowe.

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Old
09-17-2011, 10:29 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Here is the problem, it's okay to be brutally honest when talking about the young players and getting another faceoff guy but not once have i ever heard this guy be accountable for massivley under performing his contract.

If he came out at the beginning and said, 'I had a poor year the last few years, I have to do better on offense and must be an over 50% faceoff guy, and then talk about the other things perhaps. He tries to act like a leader with cred but he really doesn't have any other than being with the team for quite a few years.

You don't read the news paper?
IIRC the Sun via Terry Jones did a big two page pre season piece featuring SH after the dismal 07/08 season where they talked about him being the highest paid player on the team.
I may not have the year correct and I'm not about to go digging in the crates on the Sun's webpage, but he basically said I know how much I make, I know what it looks like, I'm going to try and earn my paycheck.
What more do you want ?

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Old
09-17-2011, 10:32 PM
  #44
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This thread reminds me of the guy that phoned Stauffer a year or so ago and said that he saw Horcoffs wife buying groceries and if he saw her again he would spit on her or something to that effect.

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Old
09-17-2011, 10:33 PM
  #45
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When you talk to me in person, sometimes what I say and I what I mean are slightly different shades of grey. I think that's what's going on here.

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Old
09-17-2011, 10:34 PM
  #46
Bryanbryoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranford View Post
This thread reminds me of the guy that phoned Stauffer a year or so ago and said that he saw Horcoffs wife buying groceries and if he saw her again he would spit on her or something to that effect.
What a piece of crap that guy is.

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Old
09-17-2011, 10:39 PM
  #47
Stoneman89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You trying to tell me he SHOULD have believed in what this club was doing post 05-06?

Seriously?

Horcoff's "belief" was bought. I'm sure he's embarassed sometimes looking over at Smyth knowing he got the overpay dough here and that Smyth had to go elsewhere for it.

Any "belief" Horc had in the club should've dissolved once they signed his, or Khabi's or Sourays ridiculous contracts.


What would you like him to have said publicly then?

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Old
09-17-2011, 11:03 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I hate to create a post so soon on this topic, especially when this is a time to look forward to the season with much optomism but his words in the Journal today struck a chord.

It talks about him looking forward to having Belanger with his 55.3 faceoff percentage and he says: "You have to have at least two guys. It's too hard for one guy to carry that."..."Those hard minutes in the (defensive zone)."

Now me may be right but you'd swear he has been reading the pletitude of posts on these forums about the unciorn like "hard minutes" and how he is the only play on the team that every faces these hard minutes. Also a convenient excuse for sucking in his job. Shawn you are being paid 6.5 a year to be the man who wins 55% of the draws.

The article then talks about the possiblity of a 'sophomore slump' for our young players. Horcoff offers this up. "If all three of those players build upon what they did last year that will be a bonus. History shows that is probably not going to happen, so we're going to do what we can to help those kids stay positive and continue to work hard. It's a process. There's going to be ups and downs."

Funny comments seeing as it's been proven time and again that Horcoffs production pretty well totally depends on him having skilled linemates as he generates almost nothing himself.

In my mind a captain has to have personal or team success to back up what he preaches and Horcoff has had little of either the last few years. Is what he says in this article technically true? Perhaps but to me, an avoid Horcoff unbeleiver it comes off as excuse making when he's supposed to be a prime piece of the puzzle and a lack of faith in the players who have and will make him look good in the future.
Horcoff is right. He was playing ridiculous minutes for quite some time on this team busting his ass every second while he was on the ice. Now that ice times decreased over the last several years but obviously the results haven't really been very good with guys like Cogliano killing penalties. We have needed another guy for a while.

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Old
09-17-2011, 11:11 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
What a piece of crap that guy is.
Hey Stauffer isn't for everyone, but that's a little harsh....

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Old
09-17-2011, 11:36 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest View Post
If you listen to this entire interview, if nothing else, it comes off more as a calling out of Gagner.

Horc spoke about the value of adding Belanger...but....he went on to point out the neccesity of having THREE solid centres...and...of course...he's 100% correct.
I don't think he was calling any specific individual out, he was just stating that the entire forward group (which includes him) has to be better on faceoffs.

"...all your centremen have to improve upon where we were last and that comes from wingers helping out too..."

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