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Another day another Schneider rumor.

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Old
09-19-2011, 12:10 PM
  #126
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I think Doan is trending down in a big way, so I don't know why people are so excited to get him for Schneider. Doan would be a classic deadline rental and I wouldn't be willing to pay more than a late 1st rounder for him (maybe throw in a borderline prospect).
Doan is the kind of guy who would go through a wall to win. Perfect for the playoffs with a guy like Kesler. He puts us over the top in my opinion.

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09-19-2011, 12:10 PM
  #127
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Back-up with the Hawks.
Damn Capgeek misleading me.

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09-19-2011, 12:26 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I think Doan is trending down in a big way, so I don't know why people are so excited to get him for Schneider. Doan would be a classic deadline rental and I wouldn't be willing to pay more than a late 1st rounder for him (maybe throw in a borderline prospect).
He did have 60 points in 72 games - a 68 point pace over a full season that would have been the 3rd most productive season of his career. He's obviously on the tail end of his career but he definately didn't show he was 'trending down in a big way' last season, statistically anyway. And it's not like Phoenix was a high scoring team either...

Regardless, I don't see any way Phoenix moves Doan at this point, nor at any point. Turris is the more logical target for obvious reasons and would really help solidify the centre ice position in the short and long term.

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09-19-2011, 12:46 PM
  #129
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Is Emery still around? He looked serviceable in Anaheim last year; could be a usable back-up if Legace bombs out and Lack isn't ready.
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Back-up with the Hawks.
Would have been funny if Emery was playing in that game Marchand decided to make a Sedin a punching bag. He would've skated out and beat the crap out of him. (and probably held his own against any other Bruin that came to his defense).

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09-19-2011, 12:49 PM
  #130
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I can't believe we're debating Schneider's performance considering how he played last year and in the playoffs. Turris is a huge gamble compared to him. Not sure at all that I'd want to give Turris 3 million a season based on potential. May as well give Alexandre Daigle a tryout if we're going that route.

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09-19-2011, 12:51 PM
  #131
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I can't believe we're debating Schneider's performance considering how he played last year and in the playoffs. Turris is a huge gamble compared to him. Not sure at all that I'd want to give Turris 3 million a season based on potential. May as well off Alexandre Daigle a tryout if we're going that route.
I think the basis for the Turris assumption is that he would take a more reasonable deal outside of Phoenix. I think his agent was quoted recently as saying his reported salary demands are inaccurate. I'd hope he'd sign here for something around Hodgson's number.

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09-19-2011, 02:15 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I can't believe we're debating Schneider's performance considering how he played last year and in the playoffs. Turris is a huge gamble compared to him. Not sure at all that I'd want to give Turris 3 million a season based on potential. May as well give Alexandre Daigle a tryout if we're going that route.

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09-19-2011, 02:32 PM
  #133
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From what I've read, it seems that the pipedream in this part of town is:

Schneider for Turris + 1st.

I don't think this is fair from Phoenix's perspective and I think we'd have to sweeten the pot considerably to snag that 1st rounder.

I believe this might be more enticing for Phoenix:

Schneider + Schroeder + 2nd for Turris + 1st

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Old
09-19-2011, 02:39 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
From what I've read, it seems that the pipedream in this part of town is:

Schneider for Turris + 1st.

I don't think this is fair from Phoenix's perspective and I think we'd have to sweeten the pot considerably to snag that 1st rounder.

I believe this might be more enticing for Phoenix:

Schneider + Schroeder + 2nd for Turris + 1st
Yeah some people are really shooting for the stars on Schneider's return.

Schneider for Turris/pick seems reasonable to me... Don't think we will be getting a 1st rounder unless we are giving something of decent value back

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Old
09-19-2011, 02:40 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
From what I've read, it seems that the pipedream in this part of town is:

Schneider for Turris + 1st.

I don't think this is fair from Phoenix's perspective and I think we'd have to sweeten the pot considerably to snag that 1st rounder.

I believe this might be more enticing for Phoenix:

Schneider + Schroeder + 2nd for Turris + 1st
Not a chance I'd do that.

Schneider = Turris at this point.

A goalie who is paid 900K and is an RFA after this season, who dominated the AHL and has put up fantastic numbers in the NHL is hard to come by. Turris is redundant on this team imo.

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Old
09-19-2011, 02:50 PM
  #136
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Yeah some people are really shooting for the stars on Schneider's return.
The market was set by the Varlamov deal. Whether that's a high estimation or not is something we won't know until another young goalie gets traded.

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Old
09-19-2011, 03:04 PM
  #137
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The latest reports from the Kyle Turris watch.

Hockey News - 'Yotes say no trade, but...:
Turris, who's reportedly seeking either a three-year deal worth more than $4 million per season or a two-year deal at $3 million per, has come under considerable media and blogger criticism over his salary demands.

GM Don Maloney recently told NBC Sports he considered Turris' requests “illogical,” saying the centerman’s stance made “absolutely no sense to me.”

It's been suggested Turris' demands are a “trade request in disguise,” but Maloney said he had “no intention of trading him whatsoever.”

That, however, hasn't stopped speculation the Coyotes will trade him for the right price.
Elliotte Friedman of CBC HNIC raises the Ghost of Cam Neely and points out that Maloney seems to be going down the path that got Dean Lombardi fired in San Jose when he hard-lined a couple of training camp holdouts leading to the team tanking - Evgeni Nabokov and Brad Stuart in 2002.
Turris is a scary player to trade. Just because he hasn't yet reached his potential doesn't mean he won't. He's only 22. Teams live in fear of dealing someone who can develop into a star somewhere else, which is why Maloney probably won't do it without extracting a heavy price.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...09/sept19.html

Of course Maloney's tough talk will remind Vancouver fans of Brian Burke talking tough about RJ Umberger... not thinking about him, never trading him, etc. Remeber how that turned out, a devalued asset with virtually nothing back in trade. Teams leaking negotiation details seldom help the process. GMs need to learn from Ken Holland and button it and not go running to the media to try force a deal and run down an asset. Turris' agent refuses to get pulled into a public spat.
Turris' agent, Kurt Overhardt, told ESPN.com on Tuesday he doesn't discuss numbers with the media.

"Never have, never will," he said. "There's plenty of time left [to get a deal done]."
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...nce-in-phoenix

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Old
09-19-2011, 03:06 PM
  #138
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Neither Coyotes nor Kings GMs are doing a very good job of following the Kenny Holland "shut up and get it done" philosophy.

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Old
09-19-2011, 03:29 PM
  #139
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Neither Coyotes nor Kings GMs are doing a very good job of following the Kenny Holland "shut up and get it done" philosophy.
They seem to favour the leak negotiation details to the press through "team sources" championed by Pat Quinn, Brian Burke and Mike Milbury.

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09-19-2011, 03:31 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
He did have 60 points in 72 games - a 68 point pace over a full season that would have been the 3rd most productive season of his career. He's obviously on the tail end of his career but he definately didn't show he was 'trending down in a big way' last season, statistically anyway. And it's not like Phoenix was a high scoring team either...

Regardless, I don't see any way Phoenix moves Doan at this point, nor at any point. Turris is the more logical target for obvious reasons and would really help solidify the centre ice position in the short and long term.
Fair point. I guess what I'm looking at is that his goal-scoring numbers, which were traditionally in the 27-32 range and have dropped off to about an 18-22 goal pace the last couple seasons. His shooting percentage is also down by 4-5%, which could suggest a two-year run of bad luck, or it could suggest an older player with a lot of hard miles on his body that is slowing down and doesn't have the same release or drive to the net to finish plays that he used to.

I would be leery of overpaying for him right now. To be honest, I'd rather pay a bit more at the deadline for a guy like that and not risk injury/a bad season. At least you'd know what you were paying for.

Turris is an interesting option, if only because he clearly wants out of Phoenix. I'm sure Gillis has made a call, at any rate. He has done a relatively strong job on the trade front: if there's a good deal there to be made, I think he would.

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09-19-2011, 04:21 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
From what I've read, it seems that the pipedream in this part of town is:

Schneider for Turris + 1st.

I don't think this is fair from Phoenix's perspective and I think we'd have to sweeten the pot considerably to snag that 1st rounder.

I believe this might be more enticing for Phoenix:

Schneider + Schroeder + 2nd for Turris + 1st
I'm sure it would be "might be more enticing for Phoenix:" so far what has Turris done? zip zilch nada, his potential might be there but so far what potential has he shown? zip zilch nada, all of that can also be said about a signed Schroeder who isn't trying to force a trade to another team.
I believe this might be more enticing for Vancouver:
Schroeder + 2nd for Turris
2 former 1st round center prospects with "potential" and Vancouver adds a 2nd to sweeten the pot a little


Last edited by JayBeautiful: 09-19-2011 at 04:24 PM. Reason: i left to words out when quoting the post
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Old
09-19-2011, 04:50 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
I'm sure it would be "might be more enticing for Phoenix:" so far what has Turris done? zip zilch nada, his potential might be there but so far what potential has he shown? zip zilch nada, all of that can also be said about a signed Schroeder who isn't trying to force a trade to another team.
I believe this might be more enticing for Vancouver:
Schroeder + 2nd for Turris
2 former 1st round center prospects with "potential" and Vancouver adds a 2nd to sweeten the pot a little
0_o

I'm not sure why you're quoting me here... your offer is essentially the same as mine.

Would you do Schneider for Phoenix's 1st? Yes.

Would you do Schroeder + 2nd for Turris? Yes.

Schneider + Schroeder + 2nd for Turris + 1st.

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Old
09-19-2011, 05:26 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
I'm sure it would be "might be more enticing for Phoenix:" so far what has Turris done? zip zilch nada, his potential might be there but so far what potential has he shown? zip zilch nada, all of that can also be said about a signed Schroeder who isn't trying to force a trade to another team.
I believe this might be more enticing for Vancouver:
Schroeder + 2nd for Turris
2 former 1st round center prospects with "potential" and Vancouver adds a 2nd to sweeten the pot a little
Turris had a strong series against the Red Wings, finishing tied for third in scoring among Phoenix forwards while having 7 other forwards getting more ice-time and getting less than 1 minute on the PP. He played well both ways, was defensively responsible and was the ONLY 'Yotes forward with a plus rating (+1).

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09-19-2011, 05:43 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
I'm sure it would be "might be more enticing for Phoenix:" so far what has Turris done? zip zilch nada, his potential might be there but so far what potential has he shown? zip zilch nada, all of that can also be said about a signed Schroeder who isn't trying to force a trade to another team.
I believe this might be more enticing for Vancouver:
Schroeder + 2nd for Turris
2 former 1st round center prospects with "potential" and Vancouver adds a 2nd to sweeten the pot a little
Lol wtf is this. I am so glad you didn't post this on the main boards because you'd get laughed off them. Schroeder really doesn't have much value at all now. There's a difference between a 3rd overall pick and a 22nd overall pick.

Try this: Say you had the 3rd overall pick. Someone comes to you offering a 22nd overall and 52nd overall for it. Do you do it?

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Old
09-19-2011, 06:20 PM
  #145
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Lol wtf is this. I am so glad you didn't post this on the main boards because you'd get laughed off them. Schroeder really doesn't have much value at all now. There's a difference between a 3rd overall pick and a 22nd overall pick.

Try this: Say you had the 3rd overall pick. Someone comes to you offering a 22nd overall and 52nd overall for it. Do you do it?
There is also a difference between a #3 pick who has struggled to make an impact at the NHL level, who is an RFA looking for a big raise, and a #22 overall pick who just played his first professional season and is under an ELC for 2 more years. I'm not saying its a fair swap, but with an added 2nd rounder its not as bad as you are making it out.

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Old
09-19-2011, 06:22 PM
  #146
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Lol wtf is this. I am so glad you didn't post this on the main boards because you'd get laughed off them. Schroeder really doesn't have much value at all now. There's a difference between a 3rd overall pick and a 22nd overall pick.

Try this: Say you had the 3rd overall pick. Someone comes to you offering a 22nd overall and 52nd overall for it. Do you do it?
Is it Mad Mike Milbury to whom the offer is being made?

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Old
09-19-2011, 07:21 PM
  #147
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I really hope Gillis is targeting Doan. He is exactly what is needed in the top 6.

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09-19-2011, 09:47 PM
  #148
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I'd rather get Turris than Doan. He's young and should continue to get better, as he has statistically the last 2 years. With Doan, wysiwyg and maybe a bit less as he'll be 35 in a couple of months - found the sh% comment by one poster interesting because that's what happened with Naslund.

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09-19-2011, 09:52 PM
  #149
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Turris seems like much more of a gamble compared to schneids. I would rather get someone like Doan back, who can help us this year.

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09-19-2011, 09:56 PM
  #150
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Fair point. I guess what I'm looking at is that his goal-scoring numbers, which were traditionally in the 27-32 range and have dropped off to about an 18-22 goal pace the last couple seasons. His shooting percentage is also down by 4-5%, which could suggest a two-year run of bad luck, or it could suggest an older player with a lot of hard miles on his body that is slowing down and doesn't have the same release or drive to the net to finish plays that he used to.

I would be leery of overpaying for him right now. To be honest, I'd rather pay a bit more at the deadline for a guy like that and not risk injury/a bad season. At least you'd know what you were paying for.

Turris is an interesting option, if only because he clearly wants out of Phoenix. I'm sure Gillis has made a call, at any rate. He has done a relatively strong job on the trade front: if there's a good deal there to be made, I think he would.
Interesting comment on Doan's shooting %; this is what happened to Nazzy as well - and IIRC, his shot/release were not the same after the lockout.

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