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Another day another Schneider rumor.

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Old
09-19-2011, 10:05 PM
  #151
PoolChamp
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The thing with Doan is, he will forecheck like a beast and do anything to win. AKA he's nothing like Naslund.

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09-19-2011, 10:59 PM
  #152
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Screw the first round pick. It could be Yakupov, but what're the chances Phoenix does that badly with Schneider playing for them? And even if it is a high pick, is the chance at a great prospect worth making our team significantly worse this season when our window won't stay open forever?

If I'm Gillis, I'm asking about Turris and Doan and asking them what they need us to add to Schneider to get both of them.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Doan
Raymond-Malhotra-Hansen
Sturm-Lapierre-Samuelsson

with Hodgson, Turris, Bitz and Nolan sitting in the wings ready to fill in for the injuries we're sure to have. That right there is cup-winning depth. That's the kind of depth you see on the Red Wings circa 2008.

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09-19-2011, 11:00 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
The thing with Doan is, he will forecheck like a beast and do anything to win. AKA he's nothing like Naslund.
Yup, Doan is a guy you go to war with. He was easily the best player for the Coyotes in the playoffs, heck, even though they lost the series in a sweep, he may have been the best player on both teams (between him and Datsyuk). He may be long in the tooth but he is still a physical beast and a great guy who cranks it up in big games.

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09-20-2011, 02:37 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
There is also a difference between a #3 pick who has struggled to make an impact at the NHL level, who is an RFA looking for a big raise, and a #22 overall pick who just played his first professional season and is under an ELC for 2 more years. I'm not saying its a fair swap, but with an added 2nd rounder its not as bad as you are making it out.
I am aware, but it's not like Turris is damaged goods or anything. He could and still should live up to his pick, it might just take him a couple years still. He hasn't pulled a Patrik Stefan or anything.

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09-20-2011, 03:13 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Screw the first round pick. It could be Yakupov, but what're the chances Phoenix does that badly with Schneider playing for them? And even if it is a high pick, is the chance at a great prospect worth making our team significantly worse this season when our window won't stay open forever?

If I'm Gillis, I'm asking about Turris and Doan and asking them what they need us to add to Schneider to get both of them.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Doan
Raymond-Malhotra-Hansen
Sturm-Lapierre-Samuelsson

with Hodgson, Turris, Bitz and Nolan sitting in the wings ready to fill in for the injuries we're sure to have. That right there is cup-winning depth. That's the kind of depth you see on the Red Wings circa 2008.
For Doan and Turris it would probably take Schneider and Hodgson.

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09-20-2011, 03:54 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
For Doan and Turris it would probably take Schneider and Hodgson.

I'd nearly do that if a pick was coming with Turris and Doan (2nd). This way we'd still have that elite centre prospect to bring up along with a warrior, instead of an elite centre prospect and a redundant goalie (redundant only in that Luongo is here forever).

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Old
09-20-2011, 09:30 PM
  #157
vadim sharifijanov
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shane doan: always plays 100%, plays good defense (see: olympics), respected leader and veteran presence, winning pedigree (international only). short of jarome iginla, he is the perfect addition to this team.

sedin sedin doan
edler salo (on the PP)

and

raymond/higgins/sturm kesler doan (at ES)?

drool.

i get that turris will be around for longer, but if we can get a guy like doan for just this one year and not give up a piece of our everyday lineup, i say do it. but that is a pretty big if...

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Old
09-20-2011, 10:36 PM
  #158
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oh right, thanks.

My first thought was Brassard and a 1st though that seems like wishful thinking. I couldn't see the BJs doing anything too desperate prior to the season, positive they will wait and see how Mason does. I'm not even sure that Columbus could afford to loose Brassard from their offense.

With Schnieder, I don't the Coyotes first rounder would be a top 5. I would think it would be one or the other in regards to their 1st and Turris. Mike Smith is their weak spot so no surprise that they would have interest in Schneider. Gillis is in a position where he could pry Turris out of Phoenix. To me, Turris wants out of Phoenix while they have a need for Schneider. Could work. I'd like to see Turris with Kesler, I think that would be a very good fit better than with Hodgson. Long term there is room for both Turris and Hodgson, one of which would have to play wing.

*cough* healthy lineup *cough*

D.Sedin - H.Sedin - Samuelsson
Burrows - Kesler - Turris
Sturm - Hodgson - Hansen
Higgins - Malhotra - Lapierre

err, missing Raymond. I'm sure something figured out. If there is a chance to nab Turris, I say go for it.
Sickkkk. Turris is listed as C-L, so Burrows and Samuelsson can still slot up and down with the Sedins, depending on who is hot (gotta love options). Raymond can play anywhere, so it's up to him where he fits. Lack looks solid in this preseason game I'm watching, plus I just discovered that my iPhone auto-corrects his name. Sweet.

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Old
09-20-2011, 11:21 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
shane doan: always plays 100%, plays good defense (see: olympics), respected leader and veteran presence, winning pedigree (international only). short of jarome iginla, he is the perfect addition to this team.

sedin sedin doan
edler salo (on the PP)

and

raymond/higgins/sturm kesler doan (at ES)?

drool.

i get that turris will be around for longer, but if we can get a guy like doan for just this one year and not give up a piece of our everyday lineup, i say do it. but that is a pretty big if...

You don't give up a 25 year old goal tender with potential to be a star for a 35 year old forward. For every forward like Teemo Selane who play at a high level into his late 30's or early 40's there is a Markus Naslund was done at 33.

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Old
09-21-2011, 12:11 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
You don't give up a 25 year old goal tender with potential to be a star for a 35 year old forward. For every forward like Teemo Selane who play at a high level into his late 30's or early 40's there is a Markus Naslund was done at 33.
why do people keep bringing this up? Doan is a warrior and scored 3 goals in 4 playoff games last year on a terrible offensive team.

Naslund was a soft perimeter player that relied 100% on a fading wrist shot.

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Old
09-22-2011, 02:25 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
If we're talking to PHX I'd want to do:

Schneider + Hodgson + pick

for

Doan + Turris
Swap the pick for Raymond, and they might consider that in December prior to the trade freeze, and Raymond hopefully plays for a few weeks.

Risky for both sides, as Doan is a pending UFA, but this move helps our immediate cause to win now, and their cause to maximize assets for players who can play now and awesome potential for a quick re-build, plus someone to replace Turris.

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Old
09-22-2011, 04:01 AM
  #162
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You gotta think Schneider is sweating it a bit here with losing the back-up job. Vigneault said Lack was great last night; he didn't say anything about Cory... I'm thinking that getting sent to the minors might set Schneider's value down though, so it's really a coin toss. Probably Gillis and Alain having some heated discussions behind doors.

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Old
09-22-2011, 04:12 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
You gotta think Schneider is sweating it a bit here with losing the back-up job. Vigneault said Lack was great last night; he didn't say anything about Cory... I'm thinking that getting sent to the minors might set Schneider's value down though, so it's really a coin toss. Probably Gillis and Alain having some heated discussions behind doors.
Srsly? Schneider is on the team. Lack is not coming up this year unless Schneider is traded.

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Old
09-22-2011, 04:23 AM
  #164
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Schneider stays in the team or get traded for, his value is good as he is proven. With having two good backups I would be delighted if we could get any decent forward for him in exchange.

A good third liner would be nice or someone who can be on the 4th and depend a bit more on skill than we have seen before on this line.

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Old
09-22-2011, 06:56 AM
  #165
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Man are there lots of false information, misconceptions, and exaggerations around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
shane doan: always plays 100%, plays good defense (see: olympics)
Olympics? You mean the one in 2006?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Markus Naslund was done at 33.
No he wasn't. Naslund was a 24-25 goal scorer until he retired from the NHL. That type of production would have placed him behind Daniel, Kesler, and Burrows last year. Surely, if someone like Marco Sturm can put up 24-25 goals we'll all be happy with his production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
why do people keep bringing this up? Doan is a warrior and scored 3 goals in 4 playoff games last year on a terrible offensive team.

Naslund was a soft perimeter player that relied 100% on a fading wrist shot.
Terrible offensive team? The Coyotes were 14th in the league in scoring, one goal less than the Penguins. Naslund scored 24 goals in his last year in the NHL. That's more than what Doan put up last year. No need to put down Naslund to prop up Doan.

Anyhow, a lot of comments are just silly. You trade Schneider for Doan if you believe Doan can help the team win a Cup THIS YEAR. Otherwise, you don't. The fact is Doan is the type of player everyone wants to have on their team. But he's getting old and he has played through a ton of injuries during his career. A good comparison would be Ryan Smyth. Doan has been the better player the past 4 years, so the thinking might be that Doan can keep it up for a a couple more years. Heck I wouldn't mind having Ryan Smyth for the playoffs if he's still a 20+ goal scorer. People have to take into consideration the fact that we're not talking about acquiring a superstar here. Doan will be a complementary player on the Canucks. The best role for Doan at this point in his career is to either be a complementary player for a Cup contender or a leader for a young team.

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Old
09-22-2011, 08:54 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by F A N View Post

Anyhow, a lot of comments are just silly. You trade Schneider for Doan if you believe Doan can help the team win a Cup THIS YEAR. Otherwise, you don't. The fact is Doan is the type of player everyone wants to have on their team. But he's getting old and he has played through a ton of injuries during his career. A good comparison would be Ryan Smyth. Doan has been the better player the past 4 years, so the thinking might be that Doan can keep it up for a a couple more years. Heck I wouldn't mind having Ryan Smyth for the playoffs if he's still a 20+ goal scorer. People have to take into consideration the fact that we're not talking about acquiring a superstar here. Doan will be a complementary player on the Canucks. The best role for Doan at this point in his career is to either be a complementary player for a Cup contender or a leader for a young team.
He's actually been surprisingly durable over his career, especially for the style of game he plays. The 7 games he missed last year were the most games he's missed in a season due to injury.

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Old
09-22-2011, 09:17 AM
  #167
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why do people keep bringing this up? Doan is a warrior and scored 3 goals in 4 playoff games last year on a terrible offensive team.

Naslund was a soft perimeter player that relied 100% on a fading wrist shot.
Trevor Linden was a "warrior" and one of our leading playoff scorers in the Dallas series in 2006. He put up 15 points the following year and retired.

For many players, the fall off in skills is precipitous. Doan hasn't shown that massive fall off (yet), but you don't trade a 25 year old first round draft pick for a guy who MIGHT have 2 seasons remaining in his career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F A N View Post
No he wasn't. Naslund was a 24-25 goal scorer until he retired from the NHL. That type of production would have placed him behind Daniel, Kesler, and Burrows last year. Surely, if someone like Marco Sturm can put up 24-25 goals we'll all be happy with his production.
We didn't trade a former 1st round pick who is just starting to reach his potential for Marco Sturm and anyone would have been foolish to do so for Markus Naslund at that point in his career.

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Old
09-22-2011, 09:22 AM
  #168
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At the trade deadline, players like Doan, for teams out of the playoffs, tends to be a 3rd round pick, not a player like Schneider.

I think Schneider goes the RFA route at the end of this year, seeing who will sign him, and the Canucks get draft picks .... if they are unable to get a decent package for him this year.

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09-22-2011, 09:24 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
At the trade deadline, players like Doan, for teams out of the playoffs, tends to be a 3rd round pick, not a player like Schneider.

I think Schneider goes the RFA route at the end of this year, seeing who will sign him, and the Canucks get draft picks .... if they are unable to get a decent package for him this year.
You mean an offer sheet? That would be a pretty bad course for the canucks to take...unless they ended up getting a really high first round pick.

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09-22-2011, 09:31 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
At the trade deadline, players like Doan, for teams out of the playoffs, tends to be a 3rd round pick, not a player like Schneider.

I think Schneider goes the RFA route at the end of this year, seeing who will sign him, and the Canucks get draft picks .... if they are unable to get a decent package for him this year.
I guarantee you Doan's return at the deadline will be more than a 3rd round pick, significantly more.

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09-22-2011, 09:33 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
At the trade deadline, players like Doan, for teams out of the playoffs, tends to be a 3rd round pick, not a player like Schneider.

I think Schneider goes the RFA route at the end of this year, seeing who will sign him, and the Canucks get draft picks .... if they are unable to get a decent package for him this year.
???

Doan would fetch a late first at the deadline, barring a huge drop off in productivity this season. As a point of reference a 3rd last year netted a rental Eric Brewer. Brewer ended up being a shrewd pick up by Yzerman, but he's hardly comparable to rental Shane Doan. I agree that Schneider in a package could be worth more than a late first, but a deal structured around Schneider and Doan is definitely within the proper range with a bit more coming to the Canucks.

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09-22-2011, 09:36 AM
  #172
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We'd be in trouble if Schneider was offered an offer sheet, based on this years RFA compensations we would struggle to match anything above the salary above a 2nd round pick.

Quote:
An offer with a $1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation

More than $1,034,249 -- $1,567,043: Third-round pick

More than $1,567,043 -- $3,134,088: Second-round pick

More than $3,134,088 -- $4,701,131: First and third-round pick

More than $4,701,131 -- $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick

More than $6,268,175 -- $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

More than $7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks
I personally think Schneider has his highest value as of now. On a reasonable contract for a year with pending RFA status.

I can't see his play this year being that much better than last year. i.e. he can't increase his value that much more through play in the NHL Luongo has a long term injury and Schneider performs well over a long period.

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09-22-2011, 09:43 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Jumex View Post
We'd be in trouble if Schneider was offered an offer sheet, based on this years RFA compensations we would struggle to match anything above the salary above a 2nd round pick.



I personally think Schneider has his highest value as of now. On a reasonable contract for a year with pending RFA status.

I can't see his play this year being that much better than last year. i.e. he can't increase his value that much more through play in the NHL Luongo has a long term injury and Schneider performs well over a long period.
I agree. If there is a team willing to give up a good return for Schneider, this may be the right time for Gillis to trade him.

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09-22-2011, 10:19 AM
  #174
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I think this is the season that Schneider gets traded...

but there are a couple of qualifiers. First and most obvious will be his performance and development. He'll need to keep bringing it for the market to be there.

Secondly the market itself. Who amongst the pretenders will feel their goaltending is preventing them from being legitimate? There's a few teams that are running with goaltenders that maybe had a good half season last year and their teams are now putting all their eggs in that basket...but those hopes can fade quickly. If a guy like Reimer in T.O. can't do it, or Crawford in Chicago poops the sheets then Schneider's value goes up. Then there is the question of our own back up situation. If Lack continues to develop then Schneider becomes more movable.

Lots of different factors to consider but I'm still thinking that this will be Schneider's last season as a Canuck. I believe he will show that he's developed to the point of being considered a starter in the NHL and I believe that there will be more than a couple of teams who will find their goaltending less than they'd predicted. And finally I think Lack will indeed show that e's ready to move up.

But the final qualifier is timing, and I don't think that time is the pre- or early season. I suspect things will start to heat up by Xmas and I therefore believe Corey will get moved maybe a month or so before the trade deadline.


Last edited by ddawg1950: 09-22-2011 at 01:34 PM.
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Old
09-22-2011, 09:22 PM
  #175
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Sedin - Sedin - Samuelsson
Doan - Kesler - Higgins
Burrows - Malhotra - Hansen (killer shutdown line)
Bitz/Nolan - Lapierre - Sturm

Bitz/Nolan, Oreskovich, Pinnizotto et al

Get'r done Gillis

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