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Winnipeg Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation-It all goes here; Part IV

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12-29-2011, 09:24 AM
  #901
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I was mildly surprised when the Jets signed Jones early in free agency. I thought their depth at D was good enough. However, I'd give Chevy the benefit of the doubt here, since the Jets' D did have a lot of question marks. I wouldn't sign Jones for next year, though, knowing how Festerling, Kulda and Flood have filled in (I'm uncertain on Postma - may be a career AHLer, like John Slaney). I also would prefer if the Jets didn't re-sign Oduya. Then they could just sign 1 depth D to replace Jones & Oduya - maybe someone like Milan Jurcina.

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12-29-2011, 09:56 AM
  #902
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The problem with the Jones signing was that Chevy signed him for depth without first evaluating the depth within our own system. Granted, no one expected Flood to step up, but Postma and Kulda were both young prospects with lots of potential who had each played a handful of games for the Thrashers last year. Both could conceivably have been our 7th defenseman. Then there's the fact that he signed Jones after signing Meech, whom we (and probably he as well) assumed would be our 7th defenseman to replace Freddy Meyer.

The other issue I have is that Jones makes over a million/year, which is quite a bit more expensive than most 7th defensemen. Just look at Anton Stralman, who wasn't signed until much later in the summer and only makes 750k.

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12-29-2011, 10:51 AM
  #903
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I'm surprised that there hasn't been more talk of an Oduya trade. I'm certainly not a hater...he got off to a shaky start but is solid now. However there are several factors that, I believe, that put him on Chevy's trade radar.

Currently, he's a VERY highly paid 6th D-man at 3.5 million/year and becomes a UFA at the end of the season. While I don't think that he will get a similar contract in the future as he's not that spectacular, he will probably demand more than we are willing to pay for a #6. We will (likely) refuse, and he'll sail off into the sunset with some team who is burning through cash trying to meet the cap minimum and we'd get nothing for him. Remember that both Pavs and Kane are RFAs at the end of the season and will demand BIG $$$. If, as was previously stated by True North, we want to be a mid-cap team, we'll have to be careful with money in other areas if we want to keep these two. (I wouldn't be surprised if Pavs got an offer sheet of 5 million or more from another team...without him we're f*%#ed so we have to pay whatever we can to keep him.)

If we just accept now that we will likely lose him, then a trade becomes a real possibility. Short of absolute disaster, we are pretty much set a D for this year even without Oduya and his beard. Why not offer him up to a team who is making a playoff run that needs a little more support on D. Given that we'll probably lose him anyway, we may as well get something for him instead of just letting him walk at the end of the season.

To some degree the same applies to Jones...probably going at the end of the season so we may as well get something for him.

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12-29-2011, 01:37 PM
  #904
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At 1st I was worried with Buff and Oduya together but I like how they played together and want more of it.

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12-29-2011, 02:43 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by awopbopaloobop View Post
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more talk of an Oduya trade. I'm certainly not a hater...he got off to a shaky start but is solid now. However there are several factors that, I believe, that put him on Chevy's trade radar.

Currently, he's a VERY highly paid 6th D-man at 3.5 million/year and becomes a UFA at the end of the season. While I don't think that he will get a similar contract in the future as he's not that spectacular, he will probably demand more than we are willing to pay for a #6. We will (likely) refuse, and he'll sail off into the sunset with some team who is burning through cash trying to meet the cap minimum and we'd get nothing for him. Remember that both Pavs and Kane are RFAs at the end of the season and will demand BIG $$$. If, as was previously stated by True North, we want to be a mid-cap team, we'll have to be careful with money in other areas if we want to keep these two. (I wouldn't be surprised if Pavs got an offer sheet of 5 million or more from another team...without him we're f*%#ed so we have to pay whatever we can to keep him.)

If we just accept now that we will likely lose him, then a trade becomes a real possibility. Short of absolute disaster, we are pretty much set a D for this year even without Oduya and his beard. Why not offer him up to a team who is making a playoff run that needs a little more support on D. Given that we'll probably lose him anyway, we may as well get something for him instead of just letting him walk at the end of the season.

To some degree the same applies to Jones...probably going at the end of the season so we may as well get something for him.
Oduya has really done the yeomen's work this year, and has been a pillar on the PK, I would look at resigning him, if we could get him at the same value of his current contract I think that is a reasonable price for a steady defensive defenseman who can carry the puck and support the rush...I think Hainsey-Oduya could easily become our shutdown pair by the end of the year. Neither Enstrom nor Bfuglien are as efficient on the PK, and it is hard to believe that Flood, Jones, or Kulda could provide as much in his absence...And to trade him to a playoff contender when we are ourselves a contender is not the message you want to send to fans.

I do think you make an interesting point though with the renegociations of Kane's and Pavelec's contracts, combined with Slater, Glass, and Wellwood, and Mason all heading for UFA status. Somewhere in the organization, salary will have to be shed to resign or replace these players with ones of equal value. I think Glass is automatic, the rest, not sure.

I would consider a trade of Bfuglien for Cam Fowler and Niklas Hagman. Hagman is a rental who could form the nucleus of a checking line with Miettenen and Burmistrov. Fowler gives us a prospect to work with on the bottom pairing, at a reasonable salary,who can grow more comfortable in larger roles with time.

Bfuglien would give Boudreau his Mike Green, and a marketable personality for a struggling market.

Bogosian's emergence this year, which could translate into a massive contract in 2013, makes it difficult to keep him, Buff, Enstrom, and Hainsey long-term. I think most fans would understand letting go out of Bfuglien faced with the choice of whom to keep.

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12-29-2011, 03:08 PM
  #906
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Oduya has really done the yeomen's work this year, and has been a pillar on the PK, I would look at resigning him, if we could get him at the same value of his current contract I think that is a reasonable price for a steady defensive defenseman who can carry the puck and support the rush...I think Hainsey-Oduya could easily become our shutdown pair by the end of the year. Neither Enstrom nor Bfuglien are as efficient on the PK, and it is hard to believe that Flood, Jones, or Kulda could provide as much in his absence...And to trade him to a playoff contender when we are ourselves a contender is not the message you want to send to fans.

I do think you make an interesting point though with the renegociations of Kane's and Pavelec's contracts, combined with Slater, Glass, and Wellwood, and Mason all heading for UFA status. Somewhere in the organization, salary will have to be shed to resign or replace these players with ones of equal value. I think Glass is automatic, the rest, not sure.

I would consider a trade of Bfuglien for Cam Fowler and Niklas Hagman. Hagman is a rental who could form the nucleus of a checking line with Miettenen and Burmistrov. Fowler gives us a prospect to work with on the bottom pairing, at a reasonable salary,who can grow more comfortable in larger roles with time.

Bfuglien would give Boudreau his Mike Green, and a marketable personality for a struggling market.

Bogosian's emergence this year, which could translate into a massive contract in 2013, makes it difficult to keep him, Buff, Enstrom, and Hainsey long-term. I think most fans would understand letting go out of Bfuglien faced with the choice of whom to keep.
I vote for Enstrom to go. Buff will be needed in a long playoff run to the Cup. Enstrom can get us a top 6 forward. Huddy will turn Buff into a shut down guy but it will take a few seasons. Enstrom will never be shutting down guys like Kesler.

Boldly hoping for a top 6 forward

My 10 cents

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12-29-2011, 05:05 PM
  #907
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Oduya has really done the yeomen's work this year, and has been a pillar on the PK, I would look at resigning him, if we could get him at the same value of his current contract I think that is a reasonable price for a steady defensive defenseman who can carry the puck and support the rush...I think Hainsey-Oduya could easily become our shutdown pair by the end of the year. Neither Enstrom nor Bfuglien are as efficient on the PK, and it is hard to believe that Flood, Jones, or Kulda could provide as much in his absence...And to trade him to a playoff contender when we are ourselves a contender is not the message you want to send to fans.

I do think you make an interesting point though with the renegociations of Kane's and Pavelec's contracts, combined with Slater, Glass, and Wellwood, and Mason all heading for UFA status. Somewhere in the organization, salary will have to be shed to resign or replace these players with ones of equal value. I think Glass is automatic, the rest, not sure.

I would consider a trade of Bfuglien for Cam Fowler and Niklas Hagman. Hagman is a rental who could form the nucleus of a checking line with Miettenen and Burmistrov. Fowler gives us a prospect to work with on the bottom pairing, at a reasonable salary,who can grow more comfortable in larger roles with time.

Bfuglien would give Boudreau his Mike Green, and a marketable personality for a struggling market.

Bogosian's emergence this year, which could translate into a massive contract in 2013, makes it difficult to keep him, Buff, Enstrom, and Hainsey long-term. I think most fans would understand letting go out of Bfuglien faced with the choice of whom to keep.
You don't want to be paying a guy like Oduya $3.5mil just to play a few more minutes a night then Stuart who is making $1.7 for the next 2 years. Oduya isn't worth that given his role on the team. And I really don't see how he is better on the PK then a guy like Enstrom. Good on it, yes, but I just don't see how he's any better.

I doubt Anaheim would trade Fowler for Buff, let alone adding to it. Byfuglien has improved a lot under Noel and Huddy. Who's to say that would continue if he's traded.

You have to remember that over the next two years, the guy's that are overpaid are coming off the books. Oduya's $3.5 off the books this year. That'll give you over $14 mill in cap space going into the off-season to resign RFA's like Pavs, Kane, and Fehr as well.
-Assuming Pavs basically replaces what Oduya makes, you have about $11 to pay Kane and Fehr. You still will have more then enough to resign Slater, Glass, and Wellwood. Assume it's somewhere around $4 mill. Probably would be a little more. You still have over $5 mil in cap space.
-The next season is where you really have the mess. You have Hainsey's $4.5 and Antropov's $4 mill coming off the books along with Enstrom's $3.75. Now, Toby will probably garner over $5. The exact number, I don't know. It could easily go up.
-I don't see Antro staying with us long term.
-If Hainsey was to be resigned it would have to be around Oduya money unless he comes into a bigger role. Hopefully his asking price won't be too high if he stays.
-Now, you have Bogosian, Wheeler, Little, and Burmistrov as the key RFA that year.

Unless someone has a ridiculous asking price, I think we should be fine within the cap over the next two years with some of the contracts coming off the books.

Here's a link to capgeek... http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=7

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12-29-2011, 07:02 PM
  #908
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You don't want to be paying a guy like Oduya $3.5mil just to play a few more minutes a night then Stuart who is making $1.7 for the next 2 years. Oduya isn't worth that given his role on the team. And I really don't see how he is better on the PK then a guy like Enstrom. Good on it, yes, but I just don't see how he's any better.

I doubt Anaheim would trade Fowler for Buff, let alone adding to it. Byfuglien has improved a lot under Noel and Huddy. Who's to say that would continue if he's traded.

You have to remember that over the next two years, the guy's that are overpaid are coming off the books. Oduya's $3.5 off the books this year. That'll give you over $14 mill in cap space going into the off-season to resign RFA's like Pavs, Kane, and Fehr as well.
-Assuming Pavs basically replaces what Oduya makes, you have about $11 to pay Kane and Fehr. You still will have more then enough to resign Slater, Glass, and Wellwood. Assume it's somewhere around $4 mill. Probably would be a little more. You still have over $5 mil in cap space.
-The next season is where you really have the mess. You have Hainsey's $4.5 and Antropov's $4 mill coming off the books along with Enstrom's $3.75. Now, Toby will probably garner over $5. The exact number, I don't know. It could easily go up.
-I don't see Antro staying with us long term.
-If Hainsey was to be resigned it would have to be around Oduya money unless he comes into a bigger role. Hopefully his asking price won't be too high if he stays.
-Now, you have Bogosian, Wheeler, Little, and Burmistrov as the key RFA that year.

Unless someone has a ridiculous asking price, I think we should be fine within the cap over the next two years with some of the contracts coming off the books.

Here's a link to capgeek... http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=7
Really good post Duke, that's alot to consider...

Pavelec and Kane are going to cost at least $9 million next year, consevatively, maybe closer to $11 million depending on the market. That salary could be conceivably made up by shedding Oduya and Jones...Kulda and Postma could move in at a fraction of the cost of Oduya (maybe Kulda can fill his skates to some extent on the PK) with Flood or Meech sticking around as the reliable vets. Slater is due for about a $1 million upgrade, I see him as Vern Fiddler-like in the open market. That could be taken from Fehr's salary, pretty sure he would take $1.2 mill to stay in Winnipeg. Glass is a pretty easy resigning I think, he is not more than a $1 million player for any team, except maybe the Rangers. If we can get Wellwood at $1 mill for another year competing with Scheifle I'd be happy. One or both of Cormier and Klingberg may earn spots as well. One player who I think the Jets should absolutely pursue as a UFA is Jordin Tootoo, he is the kind of guy who can get the crowd on their feet, has really become a solid two-way player, and could be a real hero and role model for aboriginals in Manitoba. The fact we could snatch him from a division rival would make this signing even more imperative in my estimation.

The thing is that I don't see us exceeding $55 million in cap space next year, as an NHL franchise we will likely remain a bottom 10 market in terms of spending, although not bottom 5. That is just the fiscal reality of our market.

It is interesting to see the challenges that 2013 poses for the Jets management, with so many top end players entering free agency, both restricted and unrestricted. Thankfully for us at least that is a long way's away and we can enjoy the ride today.

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12-29-2011, 07:23 PM
  #909
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Really good post Duke, that's alot to consider...

Pavelec and Kane are going to cost at least $9 million next year, consevatively, maybe closer to $11 million depending on the market. That salary could be conceivably made up by shedding Oduya and Jones...Kulda and Postma could move in at a fraction of the cost of Oduya (maybe Kulda can fill his skates to some extent on the PK) with Flood or Meech sticking around as the reliable vets. Slater is due for about a $1 million upgrade, I see him as Vern Fiddler-like in the open market. That could be taken from Fehr's salary, pretty sure he would take $1.2 mill to stay in Winnipeg. Glass is a pretty easy resigning I think, he is not more than a $1 million player for any team, except maybe the Rangers. If we can get Wellwood at $1 mill for another year competing with Scheifle I'd be happy. One or both of Cormier and Klingberg may earn spots as well. One player who I think the Jets should absolutely pursue as a UFA is Jordin Tootoo, he is the kind of guy who can get the crowd on their feet, has really become a solid two-way player, and could be a real hero and role model for aboriginals in Manitoba. The fact we could snatch him from a division rival would make this signing even more imperative in my estimation.

The thing is that I don't see us exceeding $55 million in cap space next year, as an NHL franchise we will likely remain a bottom 10 market in terms of spending, although not bottom 5. That is just the fiscal reality of our market.

It is interesting to see the challenges that 2013 poses for the Jets management, with so many top end players entering free agency, both restricted and unrestricted. Thankfully for us at least that is a long way's away and we can enjoy the ride today.
Yeah I don't see us adding much salary next year except from pay raises. Otherwise, we'll still be bottom half. This upcoming offseason will be the easy one. 2013 could be a real headache for management. A lot can change though. The roster next year will likely have several new faces and the same after that. The core is what you want to keep together. And we have a pretty good core and guys at all positions. Most young teams don't have a young core with a young #1 goalie, a #1 defenseman with two guys that have #1 or top pairing potential, 2 good 2-way centers with another one in Barrie, and some solid young wingers.

Btw, with regards to Kane and Pavs costing $9 mill or more, I'm not so sure about that. Of course a lot has to play out as we're not even half way through the season, but I'm not worried about Pavs cost. I think there's a chance that $4 mill will be the max for him. Kane, I worry about. I could see him wanting as much as possible, but he won't get more then $4.5 maybe $4.75. Tavares got $5.5, and he has proven a lot more then Kane has up to this point and is also a center whereas Kane is a winger. Just food for thought really.


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12-29-2011, 11:02 PM
  #910
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Btw, with regards to Kane and Pavs costing $9 mill or more, I'm not so sure about that. Of course a lot has to play out as we're not even half way through the season, but I'm not worried about Pavs cost. I think there's a chance that $4 mill will be the max for him. Kane, I worry about. I could see him wanting as much as possible, but he won't get more then $4.5 maybe $4.75. Tavares got $5.5, and he has proven a lot more then Kane has up to this point and is also a center whereas Kane is a winger. Just food for thought really.
I'm not sure about that...New Jersey will likely be looking hard at Pavs...Brodeur is 39 and Hedberg 38, and if Brodeur retires that gives the 5.2 million to play with. And that's just one team! Of course Pav's play could fall to pieces for the remainder of the season which would alter the picture substantially.

Kane has that star quality...flashy clutch goals, etc, that attracts a good deal of cash, so I also worry about him. The team, however, could make do without him, whereas without Pavs, we're screwed.

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12-29-2011, 11:06 PM
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I'm not sure about that...New Jersey will likely be looking hard at Pavs...Brodeur is 39 and Hedberg 38, and if Brodeur retires that gives the 5.2 million to play with. And that's just one team! Of course Pav's play could fall to pieces for the remainder of the season which would alter the picture substantially.

Kane has that star quality...flashy clutch goals, etc, that attracts a good deal of cash, so I also worry about him. The team, however, could make do without him, whereas without Pavs, we're screwed.
Pavs is a RFA. Meaning only we can talk contract with him. NJ can look all they want, but he's our #1 goalie for the next 10 years.

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12-29-2011, 11:44 PM
  #912
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Pavs is a RFA. Meaning only we can talk contract with him. NJ can look all they want, but he's our #1 goalie for the next 10 years.
But if Pavs rejects our qualifying offer and enters negotiations, that opens him up to receiving offer sheets from other teams. Sure we still can match and keep him and the other team would have to compensate us with draft picks, but still, it could start a bidding war.

Therefore, we (and Pav's agent for that matter) have to judge the market when considering the first qualifying offer. If he keeps standing on his head as he has done, then he'll be able to demand a high price, even if it never has to enter negotiations. Realistically, if I was his agent, I'd recommend rejecting any qualifying offer under 5 million just to see what kind of interest is out there, but then I'm a bit of a financial risk-taker at times!

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12-30-2011, 12:11 AM
  #913
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But if Pavs rejects our qualifying offer and enters negotiations, that opens him up to receiving offer sheets from other teams. Sure we still can match and keep him and the other team would have to compensate us with draft picks, but still, it could start a bidding war.

Therefore, we (and Pav's agent for that matter) have to judge the market when considering the first qualifying offer. If he keeps standing on his head as he has done, then he'll be able to demand a high price, even if it never has to enter negotiations. Realistically, if I was his agent, I'd recommend rejecting any qualifying offer under 5 million just to see what kind of interest is out there, but then I'm a bit of a financial risk-taker at times!
And this happens what, once every couple of years? Teams rarely send Qualifying offers as it opens a can of worms that team does not want to deal with. There is no market because he isn't on the market.

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12-30-2011, 12:11 AM
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I wouldn't worry too much about either of them to be honest. Pavs had played great, but he's not going to jump from his current salary to four million bucks. Tim Thomas was making four million after he won the vezina the first time.

Let's call a spade a spade here. Evander Kane is talented but last year he was a rookie. No way the two of them are going to be nine mill. No way I'd say prolly four b/w the two. Sure their good, but their not that good. Both are top end players, but their the middle of the top end player pack.

But let's talk. Subban. His contract is coming up at the same time as Carey Price's is. Who do you keep? A D man who is minus four or the goalie that is top five in the league right now and is losing games because the rest of his team is ****

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12-30-2011, 12:17 AM
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But if Pavs rejects our qualifying offer and enters negotiations, that opens him up to receiving offer sheets from other teams. Sure we still can match and keep him and the other team would have to compensate us with draft picks, but still, it could start a bidding war.

Therefore, we (and Pav's agent for that matter) have to judge the market when considering the first qualifying offer. If he keeps standing on his head as he has done, then he'll be able to demand a high price, even if it never has to enter negotiations. Realistically, if I was his agent, I'd recommend rejecting any qualifying offer under 5 million just to see what kind of interest is out there, but then I'm a bit of a financial risk-taker at times!
If he refuses to take an offer under 5m they'll just take him to arbitration. There's no way he gets more than 4.5 in arbitration

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12-30-2011, 12:20 AM
  #916
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Those two players(Pavs and Kane) arenot going to be that much money. They're both new they've had a good season thus far, but that does not mean that they deserve four million dollar pay days. As far as "franchise players" go. Their middle of the pack. 2 million a piece. Even NJ would be friggen ******** to pay much more then that. There's going to be a lot of moving around come the off season, and next years lineup will look different.

If Pavs wants to scurry off to Jersey, I'd happily pay my two million to Corey Schneider. If Kane decides to take off, so be it. There is alot of big names this year. Semin, penner, Hemsky, souray

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12-30-2011, 12:26 AM
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Just to name a few. Not to mention the RFA that the other teams can't afford. Subban is one. The Habs have about a mill in cap space and Carey is going to want more money. He's top five, he should be payed like it. He's like a luongo that doesn't suck.

Nashville is the same. They can't afford to keep Rinne weber and suter. One will have to go. With the amount of changes in the jet line up, that are even just predicted here...we could be seeing some huge talent come to our city.

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12-30-2011, 01:49 AM
  #918
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And this happens what, once every couple of years? Teams rarely send Qualifying offers as it opens a can of worms that team does not want to deal with. There is no market because he isn't on the market.
But RFA's are on the market while they are in negotiations with their current team (ie. rejected the first offer from the current team). At that point, any other team is free to submit an offer sheet to the player, with the knowledge that if the player comes to them, they will have to give up some draft picks to the current team. If the current team doesn't want to match the offer sheet signed by the player, it's goodbye. When a player's contract ends, they go on the market. 'Restricted' status simply gives the current team a bit more of an advantage in negotiations (right of first refusal, essentially) and some compensation if they lose the player.
Qualifying offers come from the players current team, without one a player becomes a UFA.

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12-30-2011, 09:15 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Those two players(Pavs and Kane) arenot going to be that much money. They're both new they've had a good season thus far, but that does not mean that they deserve four million dollar pay days. As far as "franchise players" go. Their middle of the pack. 2 million a piece. Even NJ would be friggen ******** to pay much more then that. There's going to be a lot of moving around come the off season, and next years lineup will look different.

If Pavs wants to scurry off to Jersey, I'd happily pay my two million to Corey Schneider. If Kane decides to take off, so be it. There is alot of big names this year. Semin, penner, Hemsky, souray
Thank god you don't have any part of running our team.

"If Kane leaves, so what, we can just sign Penner."
"Kane is worth 2 million"
"Pavelec is worth 2 million"

... wise up!

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12-30-2011, 10:28 AM
  #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Those two players(Pavs and Kane) arenot going to be that much money. They're both new they've had a good season thus far, but that does not mean that they deserve four million dollar pay days. As far as "franchise players" go. Their middle of the pack. 2 million a piece. Even NJ would be friggen ******** to pay much more then that. There's going to be a lot of moving around come the off season, and next years lineup will look different.

If Pavs wants to scurry off to Jersey, I'd happily pay my two million to Corey Schneider. If Kane decides to take off, so be it. There is alot of big names this year. Semin, penner, Hemsky, souray
You may want to take another look at the NHL pay scale.

Kane is on pace to score north of 40 goals. Pavelec has been stellar on a team that has had it's ups and downs defensively. His numbers are beginning to reflect his good play and will continue to do so. Pavelec is top 20 in the league easily and I think will continue to improve.

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12-30-2011, 10:40 AM
  #921
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Duke, you make great points in this thread, in my opinion. I agree with everything. Very, very well said.

I also think a lot of our growth will come from within, and over the next few years we may not be a "mid-cap" team only because we will have to pay our own younger guys who are likely too good to let go, however to keep them they will need to be compensated fairly.

One thing that has really been on my mind lately is this teams potential. Basically, this identical team will be back next season with the exception of likely Oduya (I think that's fair to say).

We've seen what this team did in Atlanta last season, and even though they stumbled, I think it's fair to say they learned A LOT based on the experience.

Now, this year, they must keep it all together all while being in a new environment with new coaches and a new system. So far, they've done exceptionally well, in my opinion.

I believe with this team and the likes of Little, Kane, Ladd, Burmistrov, Wheeler, Antropov, Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, Hainsey, Stuart, Pavelec, etc.. and possibly a young guy such as Scheifele next season, we should only get better and more consistent. I also think all of Slater, Glass, Wellwood and Mason will be back next season as they are all a great fit here. These players just seem to "get it" so far this season and I feel things will only get better.

I really like this team. I love the character, leadership, mix of youth and a little veteran leadership sprinkled in there. I love it all and am a firm believer that our main growth will come from within. For example, if Burmistrov can do next year (in his 3rd NHL season) what Kane is doing this year (in his 3rd NHL season), and I think Burmistrov can indeed break out in good fashion, that alone would be huge right there. I believe guys like Little and Wheeler will become the players we know they can be (and have shown to date they can be) but on a consistent basis, from the start of the season to the end. Ladd is our leader and while he isn't the flashiest, he really brings something no other forward on our roster brings, and that is leadership + goal scoring + physicality + experience, etc.. he may get 25 goals or so, and 40-50 points, rarely ever hit the highlight reels, but he is important here. Slater is certainly the unsung hero of our forwards, as I believe Stuart is on our defense.

This team is pretty good today, I believe, and should only get better as the years go on. If we can keep this core intact, I think we'll be rewarded. We will certainly add pieces along the way, as all teams do, but I am a firm believer our success will come from the growth and maturation we see from within.

If this team makes the playoffs this season, even if they squeak in by a single point in the 8th and final spot in the Eastern Conference, the experience alone will make all worth it, 100%. Even if we were get swept, the experience would make it all worth it in my opinion. This team is learning as we go here, and there is no better way to learn than to simply do it and gain that valuable experience. The phrase "well if we are just going to make the playoffs in the 8th spot and get beat out in the 1st round" does not apply to this team for me. You won't EVER sell me on that, because this team needs to achieve certain things in order to learn and become better.

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Last edited by Guerzy: 12-30-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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12-30-2011, 11:08 AM
  #922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Those two players(Pavs and Kane) arenot going to be that much money. They're both new they've had a good season thus far, but that does not mean that they deserve four million dollar pay days. As far as "franchise players" go. Their middle of the pack. 2 million a piece. Even NJ would be friggen ******** to pay much more then that. There's going to be a lot of moving around come the off season, and next years lineup will look different.

If Pavs wants to scurry off to Jersey, I'd happily pay my two million to Corey Schneider. If Kane decides to take off, so be it. There is alot of big names this year. Semin, penner, Hemsky, souray
If you think Schneider is getting just two million, you are mistaken. If vancouver offers him two million to backup Luongo, that will be his salary. Schneider wants to start, he won't sign his qualifying offer and will take an offer sheet of around three million. Not sure what his and the Canucks arbitrations rights are, but if he goes to arbitration, he ends up staying with the Canucks. He's not an option for the Jets unless we overpay. I would give the money to Pavs.

I would barely trade Kane for those other four. Eight million for the pair is about right. Look at what Price and Halak got, 2.5 and 3.75, and the proved about as much, if not more, than Pavs has when they last signed. My bet is Pavs gets in the 2.5 and 3.75 for a three year term. Only way he gets four is if we make a huge playoff push or he gets five or more years on the term.

Kane is getting four; I hate that he is, but it is the going rate for guys who are busting out. If the we sign him with one more RFA deal after this contract, I bet we can get him for 3.25 - 3.5. Anything that will take him to UFA will be around 4 per. Look at the contracts for A Kostytsin, Lucic, Ryan and Zajac. Those were the best comparables I could find.


Last edited by DinoNeils: 12-30-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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12-30-2011, 12:52 PM
  #923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
I also think a lot of our growth will come from within, and over the next few years we may not be a "mid-cap" team only because we will have to pay our own younger guys who are likely too good to let go, however to keep them they will need to be compensated fairly.

One thing that has really been on my mind lately is this teams potential. Basically, this identical team will be back next season with the exception of likely Oduya (I think that's fair to say).
I agree that next year the team will look quite similar as we should be able to shuffle the salary deck a little bit and still cover large raises for Pavs and Kane (especially if we get rid of Oduya and some of the 3rd/4th line guys are willing to trade a bit of salary room for a two or three year contract).

I wouldn't, however, underestimate True North's committment to their business plan, which includes being a mid-cap team. They are not running a charity for the city, they're in it to make money. They've stated several times that a key component to this plan is good personnel management in order to create a winning team but on a budget. If Kane, Burmi, Bogo, Enstrom, Little, Wheeler, Hainsey and Pavs all demand big money contracts over the next couple of years, then some of them will have to go in order to stick to the plan.

True North are not your wife with the MBNA Mastercard. They are prudent businesspeople who got into the position they are now in by careful planning and solid financial management. While a top-of-the-cap team might be exciting, it's not neccessarily sustainable given this smaller market.

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12-30-2011, 01:33 PM
  #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Bomber View Post
Thank god you don't have any part of running our team.

"If Kane leaves, so what, we can just sign Penner."
"Kane is worth 2 million"
"Pavelec is worth 2 million"

... wise up!
Both of these players came from a team that was flat...and magically...poof were in a playoff hunt. Might possibly be because the team is now in a market where people actually care about hockey, before they were barely selling tickets and now the team skates out to a sold out crowd at a home game. It's huge.

If I was running the team, there would be no way that I would overpay for two players that have played well for half a season.

My only point is this, if some other team is dumb enough to pay huge money for practically unproven players...let them. There are other goalies and forwards in the league.

Based on one good season...I would not pay a sophomore forward and a goalie that struggled last year four million a pop.

Also, I don't want penner anymore then the kings do.

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12-30-2011, 01:43 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinoNeils View Post
If you think Schneider is getting just two million, you are mistaken. If vancouver offers him two million to backup Luongo, that will be his salary. Schneider wants to start, he won't sign his qualifying offer and will take an offer sheet of around three million. Not sure what his and the Canucks arbitrations rights are, but if he goes to
arbitration, he ends up staying with the Canucks. He's not an option for the Jets unless we overpay. I would give the money to Pavs.
I would barely trade Kane for those other four. Eight million for the pair is about right. Look at what Price and Halak got, 2.5 and 3.75, and the proved about as much, if not more, than Pavs has when they last signed. My bet is Pavs gets in
the 2.5 and 3.75 for a three year
term. Only way he gets four is if
we make a huge playoff push or
he gets five or more years on the
term.Kane is getting four; I hate that he is, but it is the going rate for guys who are busting out. If the we sign him with one more RFA deal after this contract, I bet we can get him for 3.25 - 3.5. Anything that will take him to UFA
will be around 4 per. Look at the
contracts for A Kostytsin, Lucic,
Ryan and Zajac. Those were the
best comparables I could find.
Schneider makes like nine hundred thousand a year. But regardless, there would be no way I'd trade away Evander Kane. No way. The kid is going to be a star. Does he deserve more money?

Yes.

Does that mean it should be a jump into higher levels of pay? No.

I personally think that most people are getting a little antsy with how much these two players are going to be asking for. If their level of play continues into the next few seasons, I'd have no problems paying four million each.

But not yet. Not based on one good season.

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