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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2011-12 Season Thread (Pt.3)

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Old
09-19-2011, 04:19 PM
  #26
hockeylegend11
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
Well I'm pretty sure they have Perrigini and a young guy in Murray.
Probably needed a third goalie as Nichols a 16 year old is not signing yet

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09-19-2011, 04:20 PM
  #27
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Final roster announced. Mitch Dunning not there.

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09-19-2011, 04:21 PM
  #28
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Spits trade Nishi to the Sault for a 13th round pick in 2012.

Also Kenny Ryan draws into tonights Leafs/Senators exhibition game
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=376174
Nishi saved out butts two season's ago, I'm happy he might be getting a better shot elsewhere.

Kenny is as good as gone - congrats to him. I liked this quote from the article -
Quote:
Ryan was quick to call his two brothers, girlfriend and mother when the news sunk in.

"I thought my mom was about to have a heart attack," he laughed. "I told her 'It's an exhibition game. It's not the real deal yet'."
He really had nothing left to prove or learn here really. He's more than ready for the AHL.


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09-19-2011, 04:37 PM
  #29
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Spits have announced their 2011/2012 Roster.

GOALIES
1 Campbell, Jack (92)
33 Cullen, John (91)

DEFENCE

44 Bateman, Adam (95) 7 Bowen, John (94)
28 Deeley, Bryan (94) 8 Duininck, Craig (93)
22 Ebert, Nick (94) 27 Posa, Saverio (92)
20 Robertson, Adrian (91) 57 Webermin, Grant (94)

FORWARDS

3 Alonge, Stephen (93) 79 Bilcke, Ty (94)
17 Clarke, Michael (94) 19 Cortellessa, Anthony (94)
88 Czinder, Nick (92) 91 Feasey, Brennan (94)
12 Johnson, Ben (94) 89 Khokhlachev, Alex (93)
14 Kuhnhackl, Tom (92) 21 MacQueen Zack (91)
94 McCann, Brendan (93) 13 Maletta, Jordan (95)
16 Rychel, Kerby (94) 97 Vail, Brady (94)

I noticed that Ryan isn't listed, but the other players currently at NHL Camps are listed. Is this just the projected opening day roster? Are they assuming that Khokhlachev, Kuhnhackl, and Campbell will be back here by opening day? Or are they pretty much stating that they don't expect Ryan back at all this year?

Some of you guys will be happy that Dunning is not listed.

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09-19-2011, 04:40 PM
  #30
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Just looked through the list of 2nd and 3rd round picks currently listed on teams rosters:


Barrie- None
Belleville- Lemmon (2nd), Carnevale (3rd)
Brampton- None
Erie- Evans (2nd)
Guelph- Dickinson (2nd), Harpur (3rd)
Kingston- Fitzmorris (3rd), Blight (3rd)
Kitchener- Gilbert (3rd)
London- Lammes (2nd)
Mississauga- None
Niagara- Verhaeghe (2nd),
Oshawa- None
Ottawa- Vlajkov (2nd)
Owen Sound- Bigras (2nd)
Peterborough- Varga (2nd), Nosad (2nd), Murphy (3rd)
Plymouth- Mistele (2nd)
Saginaw- Povorozniouk (2nd)
Sarnia- DeAngelo (2nd)
Sault St. Marie- None
Sudbury- Harris (2nd)
Windsor- None but 2 1st Rounders

What does this prove? Not a whole lot really. While they may be listed now, how many will actually get playing time?

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09-19-2011, 04:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by etr102 View Post

I noticed that Ryan isn't listed, but the other players currently at NHL Camps are listed. Is this just the projected opening day roster? Are they assuming that Khokhlachev, Kuhnhackl, and Campbell will be back here by opening day? Or are they pretty much stating that they don't expect Ryan back at all this year?

Some of you guys will be happy that Dunning is not listed.
I think they've already been given the word that those 3 will be back. As for Ryan...I'm not even going to begin to guess what the rules are around OA's. All I know is that they can keep 4 until the trade deadline so I'm sure they will hold onto his rights until that time.

As for Dunning, with the addition of Alonge, he became redundant. Feel bad for the kid because of that nasty injury he had last year and hopefully Rychel can find him somewhere to play.

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09-19-2011, 04:52 PM
  #32
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CFaub is right people are fixed in their positions even I am. What I don't understand is people say Clarke was overwhelmed in training camp but by the same token these same people say exhibition means nothing. You can't have it both ways. I would much rather see Hunter Smith play than MacQueen, Dunning, Bilcke, Cortellessa, Czinder and McCann. I know a portion of those guys will still make the team but Smith should be getting ice time over those guys no doubt in my mind.

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09-19-2011, 05:02 PM
  #33
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What I don't understand is people say Clarke was overwhelmed in training camp but by the same token these same people say exhibition means nothing.
Points, standings, attendance, and wins in exhibition mean very little. Player performances mean a lot more. Clarke looked out of place last season and needed the time in Jr B to gain confidence. He did just that and had a strong camp this year with two-way play.

As for Smith versus the other players mentioned:

Smith v. MacQueen - I gave my reason earlier. They bring very different things to the table.

Smith v. Dunning - Smith stuck around, Dunning released. Says it all.

Smith v. Bilcke - Completely disagree. Bilcke is a different style of player and is much needed on the team right now. He's going to defend teammates ala Greenop, while Smith is going to be more of a Kassian type who puts up a few points while dropping the mitts less.

Smith v. Cortellessa - While Cort didn't show a ton of offence, his speed is a huge asset and his offence will come over time. You need his speed up front.

Smith v. Czinder - Czinder showed the foot speed in camp and in the pre-season. I even told Libbs that I thought Czinder looked worlds better with his speed and agility. He beat Smith by a fair margin in this category. While Czinder doesn't have the mean streak all the time, you still don't want to upset him.

Smith v. McCann - McCann will see third or fourth line minutes and isn't a top prospect. Smith needs more minutes because he is a top prospect. That's why they did this, I think.

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09-19-2011, 05:07 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
Just looked through the list of 2nd and 3rd round picks currently listed on teams rosters:


Barrie- None
Belleville- Lemmon (2nd), Carnevale (3rd)
Brampton- None
Erie- Evans (2nd)
Guelph- Dickinson (2nd), Harpur (3rd)
Kingston- Fitzmorris (3rd), Blight (3rd)
Kitchener- Gilbert (3rd)
London- Lammes (2nd)
Mississauga- None
Niagara- Verhaeghe (2nd),
Oshawa- None
Ottawa- Vlajkov (2nd)
Owen Sound- Bigras (2nd)
Peterborough- Varga (2nd), Nosad (2nd), Murphy (3rd)
Plymouth- Mistele (2nd)
Saginaw- Povorozniouk (2nd)
Sarnia- DeAngelo (2nd)
Sault St. Marie- None
Sudbury- Harris (2nd)
Windsor- None but 2 1st Rounders

What does this prove? Not a whole lot really. While they may be listed now, how many will actually get playing time?
I believe that Ryan Kujawinski, Sarnia's first round pick is on their roster.

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09-19-2011, 05:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by fanofdo View Post
I believe that Ryan Kujawinski, Sarnia's first round pick is on their roster.
You are correct

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09-19-2011, 05:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
CFaub is right people are fixed in their positions even I am. What I don't understand is people say Clarke was overwhelmed in training camp but by the same token these same people say exhibition means nothing. You can't have it both ways. I would much rather see Hunter Smith play than MacQueen, Dunning, Bilcke, Cortellessa, Czinder and McCann. I know a portion of those guys will still make the team but Smith should be getting ice time over those guys no doubt in my mind.
But Smith got into every exhibition game. I can't see any of these games so I have to go by what others have said: That he seemed confused, slow, and really out of sorts with the speed of the game.

I don't think anyone has said the exhibition season means nothing with regards to player development...if anything they were referring to the actual wins/losses.

Smith had his chance to prove he could play at this level and the coaching staff decided best for him to start in Jr. B. It's not like he wasn't given any chance to see what he can do. The pre-season served its purpose. I can bet that we'll see Hunter and DeKort up with the big club come trade deadline.

Also it appears Dunning was released outright today.

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09-19-2011, 05:10 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by fanofdo View Post
I believe that Ryan Kujawinski, Sarnia's first round pick is on their roster.
I was only looking at 2nd and 3rd round picks.

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Old
09-19-2011, 05:13 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
But Smith got into every exhibition game. I can't see any of these games so I have to go by what others have said: That he seemed confused, slow, and really out of sorts with the speed of the game.

I don't think anyone has said the exhibition season means nothing with regards to player development...if anything they were referring to the actual wins/losses.

Smith had his chance to prove he could play at this level and the coaching staff decided best for him to start in Jr. B. It's not like he wasn't given any chance to see what he can do. The pre-season served its purpose. I can bet that we'll see Hunter and DeKort up with the big club come trade deadline.

Also it appears Dunning was released outright today.
I did see Smith during ex season and while he played reasonably well

except for the last game where everybody played poorly I do think a stint

with Lasalle will help not stall his development

As for Dunning I am waiting for official info from spits

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09-19-2011, 05:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
Points, standings, attendance, and wins in exhibition mean very little. Player performances mean a lot more. Clarke looked out of place last season and needed the time in Jr B to gain confidence. He did just that and had a strong camp this year with two-way play.

As for Smith versus the other players mentioned:

Smith v. MacQueen - I gave my reason earlier. They bring very different things to the table.

Smith v. Dunning - Smith stuck around, Dunning released. Says it all.

Smith v. Bilcke - Completely disagree. Bilcke is a different style of player and is much needed on the team right now. He's going to defend teammates ala Greenop, while Smith is going to be more of a Kassian type who puts up a few points while dropping the mitts less.

Smith v. Cortellessa - While Cort didn't show a ton of offence, his speed is a huge asset and his offence will come over time. You need his speed up front.

Smith v. Czinder - Czinder showed the foot speed in camp and in the pre-season. I even told Libbs that I thought Czinder looked worlds better with his speed and agility. He beat Smith by a fair margin in this category. While Czinder doesn't have the mean streak all the time, you still don't want to upset him.

Smith v. McCann - McCann will see third or fourth line minutes and isn't a top prospect. Smith needs more minutes because he is a top prospect. That's why they did this, I think.
MacQueen was able to feed off terrific forwards like Khoklachev and Kassian early on in the season. If you saw his ice time was greatly diminished later in the year and he was nothing more than a 11th/12th forward.

Dunning didn't make the team well that's good then because he wasn't going to help the team.

Bilcke needs to show he can play the game, play well in both zones. You just can't give a player a role to defend other guys. If his role is to protect other guys this is really looking like 06/07 with guys like Maggio and MacArthur being a sideshow.

Cortellessa didn't show a lot of offense and that shouldn't be a surprise he didn't show much of an offense prowess in Jr A/Jr B loop last year. Maybe he can be Darryl Lloyd but even Lloyd showed the ability to score goals but make no mistake he had no hands.

Czinder fans will become tired of him 20 games into the year. He's a big guy, he doesn't have real good hands, he skates better than he did last year but that doesn't make him a good skater. He doesn't play that physical.

McCann another cookie cutter forward that really can't put the puck in the net. Is reserved for a 3rd/4th line role.

How many of the top 12 forwards have shown the ability to put the puck in the net at a Jr A/Jr B level or in the OHL. Khokhlachev, Kuhnhackl, Clarke, Feasey, then you can throw in guys like Rychel, Vail and Johnson who might be okay but high school hockey to OHL is a big jump.

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09-19-2011, 05:25 PM
  #40
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But Smith got into every exhibition game. I can't see any of these games so I have to go by what others have said: That he seemed confused, slow, and really out of sorts with the speed of the game.

I don't think anyone has said the exhibition season means nothing with regards to player development...if anything they were referring to the actual wins/losses.

Smith had his chance to prove he could play at this level and the coaching staff decided best for him to start in Jr. B. It's not like he wasn't given any chance to see what he can do. The pre-season served its purpose. I can bet that we'll see Hunter and DeKort up with the big club come trade deadline.

Also it appears Dunning was released outright today.
Let's remember in exhibition guys are still often playing with guys that don't have a lot of upside. None of these guys got to play with Kuhnhackl, Khokhlachev etc.. And results might not matter but if you have forwards producing and doing well there's a real good chance that the team will do well in the process.

Who were the most consistent forwards in training camp? Nobody has really come up with a list I imagine it would consist of Vail, Rychel and Clarke and then there is a pretty big drop off.

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09-19-2011, 05:34 PM
  #41
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Marginal vets comes from some of the players on this roster at this point when compared to some of the kids. We all know which vets will be helpful to this team, now or in the future.
I think you got to look at all the past teams that have been successful over the years. If you have been watching the CHL for awhile you should know that some teams go through the same cycle of 2-3 years of rebuild. Then when its "their year" they just don't have that "winning edge" the next step. What I truly think the perfect rebuild must happen with at least 3 things.

1- Develop or require your core of at least 11 Players (1 Goalie/6 fwds/4 def) these are players that will be the 1-2 punch, The Top scoring line and The shut down tadem. ( you can always have the 2nd line added in with trades or have someone step up)

2- All the rest of your home grown players should be developed through Jnr B first. Even if they don't make the team they're developed enough to add pieces later on. (Garret Wilson).

3- GIVE THIS TEAM A WINNING MENTALITY! I think this is what put you over the top. Thats that key to our success and London's to name a few. They kept the 3 capable overagers and some 19 year olds to not only help develop these kids but to help them win hockey games. If you put a bunch of 15,16 ,17 years throughout the roster and they get smoked out of the water what is that teaching them. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Its teaching them how not to play the game you need to see players show you what it takes to win hockey games and maybe a playoff game once they know whats expected of them throught the whole year it comes to the show they don't choke (Sarnia/Peterbourgh they've been rebuilding ever since they got Watson and haven't done anything since/Soo) this is just to name a few but these teams haven't panned out since I've been watching for the last 12 years and they're are plenty more. Sorry for the rambling

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09-19-2011, 05:42 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
MacQueen was able to feed off terrific forwards like Khoklachev and Kassian early on in the season. If you saw his ice time was greatly diminished later in the year and he was nothing more than a 11th/12th forward.

Dunning didn't make the team well that's good then because he wasn't going to help the team.

Bilcke needs to show he can play the game, play well in both zones. You just can't give a player a role to defend other guys. If his role is to protect other guys this is really looking like 06/07 with guys like Maggio and MacArthur being a sideshow.

Cortellessa didn't show a lot of offense and that shouldn't be a surprise he didn't show much of an offense prowess in Jr A/Jr B loop last year. Maybe he can be Darryl Lloyd but even Lloyd showed the ability to score goals but make no mistake he had no hands.

Czinder fans will become tired of him 20 games into the year. He's a big guy, he doesn't have real good hands, he skates better than he did last year but that doesn't make him a good skater. He doesn't play that physical.

McCann another cookie cutter forward that really can't put the puck in the net. Is reserved for a 3rd/4th line role.

How many of the top 12 forwards have shown the ability to put the puck in the net at a Jr A/Jr B level or in the OHL. Khokhlachev, Kuhnhackl, Clarke, Feasey, then you can throw in guys like Rychel, Vail and Johnson who might be okay but high school hockey to OHL is a big jump.
Re MacQueen/McCann - still lesser talents than Smith, but, you don't want Smith on the fourth line, which is where he would be right now.

Re Bilcke - HUGE difference between Maggio/MacArthur and Bilcke. The first two were average fighters, at best. Bilcke will go with the big boys and handle himself well (ask Connor Crisp). Not even in the same category.

Re Cort - He'll score this year as he gains confidence. His speed will be big.

Re Czinder - How many pre-season games did you see? What about camp? He's shown a remarkable improvement and even I'M beginning to become a fan. I was a huge chirper with him last season, but now, I'm converting.

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09-19-2011, 06:08 PM
  #43
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Re MacQueen/McCann - still lesser talents than Smith, but, you don't want Smith on the fourth line, which is where he would be right now.

Re Bilcke - HUGE difference between Maggio/MacArthur and Bilcke. The first two were average fighters, at best. Bilcke will go with the big boys and handle himself well (ask Connor Crisp). Not even in the same category.

Re Cort - He'll score this year as he gains confidence. His speed will be big.

Re Czinder - How many pre-season games did you see? What about camp? He's shown a remarkable improvement and even I'M beginning to become a fan. I was a huge chirper with him last season, but now, I'm converting.
You don't have to put Smith on the 4th line. You can easily make a case where he gets decent 10-12 mins a night on 3rd line and use him as a big body in front of the net on the PP.

I don't want to get into who's an average fighter or a great fighter. Bilcke needs to show he can play in all situations because if opponents catch on that's he's on the ice to fight, teams just won't oblige and he will need to learn how to play the game.

Cortellessa has a lot to prove as I said he didn't produce much last year and it's a bigger step up here.

I saw Czinder against Erie and he was average, didn't finish checks, didn't get in early on the forecheck. Needs to show more than that for a 19 year old.

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09-19-2011, 06:24 PM
  #44
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I see Bilcke much more as Adam Wallace than Greenop. Greenop was a crud hockey player, but he took his role of intimidation/fighting very seriously and was in ridiculously good shape. I see Bilcke as a 3rd/4th liner who can take a regular enough shift and will always be willing, but will win just as much as he loses - like Wallace.

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09-19-2011, 06:29 PM
  #45
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I think too many people here are pretending like there's some sort of magic formula that if followed will provide the best result for this team. Unfortunately we aren't baking a cake here, we don't throw two tablespoons of Dekort into a bowl and bake it for 2 years in the OHL to make a starting goalie. Player development is a lot more nuanced than most here are willing to admit, as evidenced by the multitude of paths different players take to be successful. While its nice to think that there's a nice neat formula based on throwing rookies into the OHL young and letting them learn, there's obviously more to it. Just as many young players have been ruined by getting thrown to the wolves as have thrived because of it. Perhaps we did this with our last core group, but then again perhaps we only did this because 1) we had to and 2) the players who played at 16 were ready for it. I have a lot more faith in Rychel and Boughner knowing what is best for each players development than some tool at a computer who thinks he knows what is best. I'm sure we'll be fine, and I think we're just picking things over to find fault for some reason. I don't get it. What's especially amusing is the fact that many of the same people who cry about a player going to junior B are the same people who cry about Webermin's limited minutes last year after making the team. So which is better? Sticking with the club or playing in Junior B?

Woo hoo! 3 pages before the regular season. Spits fans are the best!


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09-19-2011, 06:32 PM
  #46
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from what i have been told Dunning has been released pending a trade

has been assigned to Chatham, says he wont go there

Apparently in the summer he turned down opps in the CIS

He wanted to make a comeback from that awful injuyr incurred last year

Jr B was not part of his future from what I was told

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09-19-2011, 06:51 PM
  #47
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I think too many people here are pretending like there's some sort of magic formula that if followed will provide the best result for this team. Unfortunately we aren't baking a cake here, we don't throw two tablespoons of Dekort into a bowl and bake it for 2 years in the OHL to make a starting goalie. Player development is a lot more nuanced than most here are willing to admit, as evidenced by the multitude of paths different players take to be successful. While its nice to think that there's a nice neat formula based on throwing rookies into the OHL young and letting them learn, there's obviously more to it. Just as many young players have been ruined by getting thrown to the wolves as have thrived because of it. Perhaps we did this with our last core group, but then again perhaps we only did this because 1) we had to and 2) the players who played at 16 were ready for it. I have a lot more faith in Rychel and Boughner knowing what is best for each players development than some tool at a computer who thinks he knows what is best. I'm sure we'll be fine, and I think we're just picking things over to find fault for some reason. I don't get it. What's especially amusing is the fact that many of the same people who cry about a player going to junior B are the same people who cry about Webermin's limited minutes last year after making the team. So which is better? Sticking with the club or playing in Junior B?

Woo hoo! 3 pages before the regular season. Spits fans are the best!
I have more faith in Boughner than I do in Rychel. People have said Rychel is the compulsive one. In 06/07 Rychel had to be patient. This year if things aren't going well and they aren't going to make the playoffs will Rychel have the patience with these kids. Boughner is the calmer influence on Rychel but even then Boughner can only do so much with what he's given. With Webermin some of the disappointment has to do with MacIntyre being given a lot of ice time over Webermin that shouldn't have happened. Who was the one calling the shots on that? Rychel telling Jones to get as many wins as possible or did Jones just do that on his own? Overall I think sticking with the big club is a lot better for development than Jr B unless you can flourish in Jr B. Rychel cites guys they put in Jr B but they produced

Wellwood 10g 10a in 30 games
Wilson 11g 26a in 46 games
Clarke 14g 22a in 39 games

I am not including Blacker because he only played 7 games in Jr B. I am hopeful on Feasey because he showed he could put up points. I am bearish on guys like Cortellessa and Bilcke. I can see some of these guys like Cortellessa, Bilcke, Alonge, McCann not being around for their big run just because better players will/should come along.

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09-19-2011, 07:14 PM
  #48
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I have more faith in Boughner than I do in Rychel. People have said Rychel is the compulsive one. In 06/07 Rychel had to be patient. This year if things aren't going well and they aren't going to make the playoffs will Rychel have the patience with these kids. Boughner is the calmer influence on Rychel but even then Boughner can only do so much with what he's given. With Webermin some of the disappointment has to do with MacIntyre being given a lot of ice time over Webermin that shouldn't have happened. Who was the one calling the shots on that? Rychel telling Jones to get as many wins as possible or did Jones just do that on his own? Overall I think sticking with the big club is a lot better for development than Jr B unless you can flourish in Jr B. Rychel cites guys they put in Jr B but they produced

Wellwood 10g 10a in 30 games
Wilson 11g 26a in 46 games
Clarke 14g 22a in 39 games

I am not including Blacker because he only played 7 games in Jr B. I am hopeful on Feasey because he showed he could put up points. I am bearish on guys like Cortellessa and Bilcke. I can see some of these guys like Cortellessa, Bilcke, Alonge, McCann not being around for their big run just because better players will/should come along.
But Boughner is majority owner so what he says goes. Rychel will listen to his wishes and I'm sure no move is approved unless Boughner has his seal of approval on it. Last year with Boughner being so far away, he might have given more of the reins as to what to do with the team with Boughner only chiming in on the important ones (Shugg/Cantin, Ellis, Kassian). If Boughner wants a rebuild and to run with the youngsters, he will do that. Unlike Jones, Boughner doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

As for the guys you mentioned, it may very well come down to there being better options when the time comes (like which american kids report) but until that time, let them prove their worth.

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09-19-2011, 07:26 PM
  #49
Sec108
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Looking at the big picture, Im looking for ward to getting the season started thurs night.Were going to take our lumps, we know were on a rebuild and it will be fun to watch the kids progress.Give them till Christmas to see where were at.We have the boys for our 2014 mem cup bid.

Good luck to Kenny Ryan, hope he makes the marlies nothing left here for him.

Hope the fans are patient with a young team esp. Campbell not like last year with the jeers he got.

Think 2014!!!!!

GO SPITS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

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09-19-2011, 07:34 PM
  #50
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Quote:
You don't have to put Smith on the 4th line. You can easily make a case where he gets decent 10-12 mins a night on 3rd line and use him as a big body in front of the net on the PP.
His skating doesn't warrant it, yet. That's why 15-20 min a night in LaSalle is fine with me.

Quote:
I don't want to get into who's an average fighter or a great fighter. Bilcke needs to show he can play in all situations because if opponents catch on that's he's on the ice to fight, teams just won't oblige and he will need to learn how to play the game.
He can play the game. He's shown reasonable skills. That said, I wouldn't get into the fighting topic, either

Quote:
I see Bilcke much more as Adam Wallace than Greenop. Greenop was a crud hockey player, but he took his role of intimidation/fighting very seriously and was in ridiculously good shape. I see Bilcke as a 3rd/4th liner who can take a regular enough shift and will always be willing, but will win just as much as he loses - like Wallace.
I said last year that Bilcke was Greenop version two. I stand by that.

Quote:
He wanted to make a comeback from that awful injuyr incurred last year
I don't blame him.

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