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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

Mika Zibanejad or Mark Scheifele?

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Old
09-21-2011, 11:51 PM
  #101
TaketheCannoli
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
Ottawa fans: Zibanejad
Winnipeg fans: Scheifele

Philadelphia fans: Couturier
Columbus fan here

Couturier
Zibanejad


Scheifele

Watching Couturier for one game against the Leafs, he looked NHL ready right now

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:01 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Watch it, with posts like this Winnipegers are at risk of gaining a reputation here of being sensible, logical and overall friendly people.
heck no....sorry.. meant please no ..thank you...thanks...good day eh...-31 not bad out!!

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:04 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Columbus fan here

Couturier
Zibanejad


Scheifele

Watching Couturier for one game against the Leafs, he looked NHL ready right now
I respect your opinion (as much as I have to disagree with it) but did you really watch all three enough?

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:28 AM
  #104
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i find it odd that scheifele is considered more skilled than zibanejad.

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09-22-2011, 12:57 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i find it odd that scheifele is considered more skilled than zibanejad.
I find it odd that you find that odd.

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:00 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
I find it odd that you find that odd.
I find it odd that you find it odd that he finds it odd. Zibanejad was considered as a possible top 5 pick. Scheifele was not. They are both very skilled either way.

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:16 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I find it odd that you find it odd that he finds it odd. Zibanejad was considered as a possible top 5 pick. Scheifele was not. They are both very skilled either way.
I'm pretty sure Zibanejad wasnt projected to go higher than Scheifele because he was more "skilled".. per say. I think Mark is more skilled, Z is more polished.

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09-22-2011, 01:49 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
I'm pretty sure Zibanejad wasnt projected to go higher than Scheifele because he was more "skilled".. per say. I think Mark is more skilled, Z is more polished.
Scouts normally dont pick based on "polish"ness.
They project. Its a minor part of the job.

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09-22-2011, 01:56 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Scouts normally dont pick based on "polish"ness.
They project. Its a minor part of the job.
Obviously scouts don't pick based on any one attribute. They probably saw Z as having similar amounts of skill along with a more physical and polished defensive game (safer pick).

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Old
09-22-2011, 02:59 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I find it odd that you find it odd that he finds it odd. Zibanejad was considered as a possible top 5 pick. Scheifele was not. They are both very skilled either way.
I find it odd that you find it odd that he finds it odd that the other guy finds it odd. Zibinajed was ranked high for his physical two-way play, and intangibles.

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Old
09-22-2011, 06:35 AM
  #111
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=988531

Awesome thread about Zibanejad


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Old
09-22-2011, 07:36 AM
  #112
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As long as Winnipeg doesn't put Scheifele defense like Byfuglien I gotta root for my hometown boy!

Go Jets Go! (Third team this year, following Habs, obviously, and the Jackets)

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Old
09-22-2011, 07:45 AM
  #113
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marky mark
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*disclaimer*
hoemr vote

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Old
09-22-2011, 07:47 AM
  #114
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Can't say who'll be better, but MZ was a much better pick for the Sens.

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Old
09-22-2011, 08:46 AM
  #115
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Strome.







Hahahaha...but really probably Zibanejad, but I'll be honest I haven't seen much of Scheifele.

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Old
09-22-2011, 10:45 AM
  #116
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Let's clear a few things up here.

First, scouts from rankings generally know what they are talking about. Its their job to watch kids play and evaluate them. That said they make mistakes, focus to much on one flaw etc. However they are generally correct. So yes, according to those rankings, Scheifele was a reach. However there is a difference between ISS/other organization scouts and team scouts. Team scouts evaluate players on needs for their team. This usually results in teams having sometimes drastically different rankings from places like ISS etc and why its almost impossible to predict where a player is going to go. Where ISS scouts have to focus on every player from a player perspective, teams can focus on players that fit their needs. So a reach for a player by a team may not be a reach by their rankings. Just a mini rant, but I digress.

Going back to the comparison. It's actually quite a good one. Both seemingly came from no where and rocketed up the rankings to be top ranked (although as its be mentioned, Scheifele wasn't as highly ranked). Bot are right shooting centers with good size and both have some real nice talent.

Zibanejad has the advantage of playing against grown men already and is very likely more physically ready than Scheifele and he has a more developed two-way game. However Scheifele's offensive instincts are better, at least in my opinion and his two-way game is actually better than his plus/minus lets on. His best aspects are his playmaking ability and vision, and his ability to protect the puck. He's very good at it and its going to help him a lot.

In terms of long term, it really depends what your looking for. I think Scheifele will be getting top line time with Kane and is a long term solution for the Jets there. Zibanejad is going to be counted on to play a more defensive game but with offensive upside. Zibanejad will be limited though, specifically because of Spezza. I see him more as a long term 2nd line two-way center with 65 - 70 point upside because of it. Scheifele has a higher point upside, with the total being very assist slanted but won't really be counted on to play defense as much.

In conclusion, Scheifele will be the better offensive player and a top line player, where Zibanejad will be a good two-way center

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09-22-2011, 12:11 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Let's clear a few things up here.

First, scouts from rankings generally know what they are talking about. Its their job to watch kids play and evaluate them. That said they make mistakes, focus to much on one flaw etc. However they are generally correct. So yes, according to those rankings, Scheifele was a reach. However there is a difference between ISS/other organization scouts and team scouts. Team scouts evaluate players on needs for their team. This usually results in teams having sometimes drastically different rankings from places like ISS etc and why its almost impossible to predict where a player is going to go. Where ISS scouts have to focus on every player from a player perspective, teams can focus on players that fit their needs. So a reach for a player by a team may not be a reach by their rankings. Just a mini rant, but I digress.

Going back to the comparison. It's actually quite a good one. Both seemingly came from no where and rocketed up the rankings to be top ranked (although as its be mentioned, Scheifele wasn't as highly ranked). Bot are right shooting centers with good size and both have some real nice talent.

Zibanejad has the advantage of playing against grown men already and is very likely more physically ready than Scheifele and he has a more developed two-way game. However Scheifele's offensive instincts are better, at least in my opinion and his two-way game is actually better than his plus/minus lets on. His best aspects are his playmaking ability and vision, and his ability to protect the puck. He's very good at it and its going to help him a lot.

In terms of long term, it really depends what your looking for. I think Scheifele will be getting top line time with Kane and is a long term solution for the Jets there. Zibanejad is going to be counted on to play a more defensive game but with offensive upside. Zibanejad will be limited though, specifically because of Spezza. I see him more as a long term 2nd line two-way center with 65 - 70 point upside because of it. Scheifele has a higher point upside, with the total being very assist slanted but won't really be counted on to play defense as much.

In conclusion, Scheifele will be the better offensive player and a top line player, where Zibanejad will be a good two-way center
To say Scheifele will be a top line player and Zibby wont is wrong imo. Just because Zibby will be playing behind Spezza doesnt make him less of a player.

Sheifele would undoubtedly be #2 behind Spezza, just as Malkin is #2 behind Crosby, or Kesler is #2 behind Sedin. These 2nd line centers are all still top line players, it just happens there is a better/more well suited 1st line center on the team.

If anything Zibby will flourish in the role he's given. Theres a whole lot more developing Scheifele is going to have to do become a 1st line player, same goes for Zibby, but the latter has a lot less to do, and a lot less expectations given who he'll be playing behind.

My point is that both have top line potential, but playing behind Spezza will be a blessing, not a curse to a young upcoming centerman. Spezza will draw the 1st d pairing of the opposing teams, Zibby point totals will benefit from this.

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:18 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
Strome.







Hahahaha...but really probably Zibanejad, but I'll be honest I haven't seen much of Scheifele.
You will

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:42 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
To say Scheifele will be a top line player and Zibby wont is wrong imo. Just because Zibby will be playing behind Spezza doesnt make him less of a player.

Sheifele would undoubtedly be #2 behind Spezza, just as Malkin is #2 behind Crosby, or Kesler is #2 behind Sedin. These 2nd line centers are all still top line players, it just happens there is a better/more well suited 1st line center on the team.

If anything Zibby will flourish in the role he's given. Theres a whole lot more developing Scheifele is going to have to do become a 1st line player, same goes for Zibby, but the latter has a lot less to do, and a lot less expectations given who he'll be playing behind.

My point is that both have top line potential, but playing behind Spezza will be a blessing, not a curse to a young upcoming centerman. Spezza will draw the 1st d pairing of the opposing teams, Zibby point totals will benefit from this.
I never said that as a bad thing, simply as a fact of playing on Ottawa. I'm not trying to ***** on Ottawa fans. I love Zibanejad but the simple fact is he isn't going to be better than Spezza. It's very unlikely he will pass him. Therefore he will be limited to being a 2nd line center. That doesn't mean he can't be a very good one.

Sometimes thats jsut the way things work out. Scheifele has a much less resistant path to the first line. Doesn't mean he will make it but its just the truth.

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09-22-2011, 12:53 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
I never said that as a bad thing, simply as a fact of playing on Ottawa. I'm not trying to ***** on Ottawa fans. I love Zibanejad but the simple fact is he isn't going to be better than Spezza. It's very unlikely he will pass him. Therefore he will be limited to being a 2nd line center. That doesn't mean he can't be a very good one.

Sometimes thats jsut the way things work out. Scheifele has a much less resistant path to the first line. Doesn't mean he will make it but its just the truth.
You do realize it is possible to have two first line centers right? Just because you have two doesn't mean the second guy can't score like a first guy as long he's given a significant role on the powerplay.

There are teams out there with two centers that are better than some teams best center.

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09-22-2011, 12:59 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
You do realize it is possible to have two first line centers right? Just because you have two doesn't mean the second guy can't score like a first guy as long he's given a significant role on the powerplay.

There are teams out there with two centers that are better than some teams best center.
I don't agree. One guy always gets more playing time than the other. Two guys with first line talent? Sure but not two first line centers. In fact its incredibly rare to even have two-first line talents that play to the same level. Its just simple math. One guy gets the better linemates and better playing time, and one guy doesn't.

Again another team doesn't matter. I'm talking about Ottawa and the simply reality is the Zibanejad will not be a first line center on Ottawa while Spezza is still their. Your taking this like I'm playing Zibanejad down, which I'm not.

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09-22-2011, 01:02 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
I never said that as a bad thing, simply as a fact of playing on Ottawa. I'm not trying to ***** on Ottawa fans. I love Zibanejad but the simple fact is he isn't going to be better than Spezza. It's very unlikely he will pass him. Therefore he will be limited to being a 2nd line center. That doesn't mean he can't be a very good one.

Sometimes thats jsut the way things work out. Scheifele has a much less resistant path to the first line. Doesn't mean he will make it but its just the truth.
I am sure the Maple leafs feel so lucky to at least have a number 1 center in Timmy Connolly, while the Pens are missing their first line center in Sid, and are stuck using a Second line Center in Malkin on their first line.

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Old
09-22-2011, 02:18 PM
  #123
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I don't agree. One guy always gets more playing time than the other. Two guys with first line talent? Sure but not two first line centers. In fact its incredibly rare to even have two-first line talents that play to the same level. Its just simple math. One guy gets the better linemates and better playing time, and one guy doesn't.

Again another team doesn't matter. I'm talking about Ottawa and the simply reality is the Zibanejad will not be a first line center on Ottawa while Spezza is still their. Your taking this like I'm playing Zibanejad down, which I'm not.
The whole point of the thread is sheifele vs zibanejad. So it sounds like because z probably wont be the top offensive center on his te and sheifele may be, that sheifele is the better player.

When talking about 1st and 2nd line centers, if I think the guy could adequately hold down a 1st line center role on a team that is legit playoff team, I consider him a first line caliber center wherever he plays on his team.

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Old
09-22-2011, 02:47 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
Strome.







Hahahaha...but really probably Zibanejad, but I'll be honest I haven't seen much of Scheifele.
This is basically the biggest reason he isn't getting much respect.

He's only played one year of Junior and got progressively better as the year went on. No one really knows if he can continue getting better or what his ceiling is because he's had a much smaller sample size than other players drafted in the top 10. Like most fans, I was hoping the Jets would take a "name" player like Couturier or Hamilton at #7, but Scheifele has done nothing but impress me since he was drafted.

If he goes back to Junior this year, I think he'll have a 100+ point season and if he makes the WJC team (which he'll be competing with Johansen, Couturier, Strome and possibly Nugent-Hopkins with as centers), I think he's going to be one of their best players.

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09-22-2011, 02:50 PM
  #125
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I am sure the Maple leafs feel so lucky to at least have a number 1 center in Timmy Connolly, while the Pens are missing their first line center in Sid, and are stuck using a Second line Center in Malkin on their first line.
Oh...Did I make you angry saying Z won't be a first line center?

Why you heff to be mad?


Seriously, just because I said I see Z being a second line center doesn't mean I'm calling him terrible.

I would also like to add that sometimes players play better behind top line centers than they would without them...like Ryan Kesler for example. And Zibanejad maybe...

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